I have looked at some small tractors (25-39hp diesels) at two local dealers. The FEL are rated at 1350 - 2400 lbs. Are these suitable for adding forks and moving logs? This is for personal use. I am retired and do woodworking and want a machine to handle logs and do work on my property. Thanks for any input.
John
Might be, if the logs are under that weight and if you have enough weight in the shorts.
Which 'small tractors' are you referring to??
And where is the FEL rated in reference to the forks??
I've a 33 hp Deere (could be bigger... :) :) )
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/JD4300logs.jpg)
Take note of the weight box on the back. ;) Are the tires loaded as well, beenthere?
Dave
I've looked at the same stuff...If I had the $$ i'd be going this route..you definetly want some weight in the back....can be as simple as a toolbar and cast concrete...
I tend to manage pretty well with simply skidding logs with a tractor...I would likely not load logs on the mill with forks as it is pretty hazardous to the mill..it would be nice to be able to place and stack as I want to...
If you click over to the forum extras, there is a log weight calculator, you can calculate the rough weight of the logs you deal with most and come up with a working answer...i'd recommend not pushing the envelope of the weight limits tho'...they are put up by manufacturer, and no one EVER exaggerates numbers...
The tires have windshield washer fluid in them, and the Deere ballast box on the 3pt.
Even then, the FEL will lift more than the rear weight will hold down. Need to be careful, especially turning.
Green pallets of split oak firewood usually max out the counter weight and need to be handled very carefully,
Here is a dry pallet.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/DryWood.jpg)
I drop the ballast box and throw logging tongs on the hook to bring in logs. With FEL (or snow blade), no problem counterbalancing the 3pt load...just be cautious and go slow.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/4300Logging.jpg)
I would go with 39hp tractor if you can,money wise.I have a 42hp 4wd and it will do alot more than the 25hp you are looking at.Yes,I know what some will say about a smaller tractor,but when picking up just about the limit and the front wheel goes into a 6 inch hole,things happen very quickly.
oh...and as with sawmill engines, and boat motors, get the biggest you can afford...<G>
hmmm...a backhoe ought to make nice counterweight..
The problem with these small tractors and a loader is that the front axle were not designed to handle this much wieght and will fail costing big $$ to get rebuilt. When the tractor is in 4 wd with a heavy load, the front wheel do all the pulling. The gearing in the front end will fail under this kind of load.
Ask me how I know!!
D, not if it is built Ford tough. ;D ;D ;D
I'm guessing BT's first pic is maybe close to max weight for his tractor? It would probably be over max weight for my 27 hp 1720 Ford.
I use the FEL equipped with forks continually around my mill. Loading and unloading logs from a trailer, loading logs on the mill, hauling slabs off, and moving stacks of lumber. I have forks for the 3-point to handle the occasional 30" log. In this case bigger is better up to maybe 50 hp. I had a 100 hp JD 4020...while it had plenty of power it was way to slow and awkward around the mill and yard.
Get a FEL where you can drop the bucket and put on forks. I think the forks that attach to the bucket are a might dangerous and limit the amount you can pick up.
If a tractor is offered with an FEL it should take the weight of the loader. zopi, yes, the backhoe does make a nice counterweight. With the hoe on and the tires loaded, I don't have the rear tires off the ground too often. This UD-14A must weigh about 3500 pounds. I highly recommend tire ballast, wheelweights, or a ballast box for any FEL tractor, they just don't seem to have enough weight to match lifting capacity.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/ud14.jpg)
Dave
does anybody use a grapple set-up on there tractors for moving logs around ? are they better then forks or not?
Quote from: cuttingman423 on April 12, 2008, 07:55:40 PM
does anybody use a grapple set-up on there tractors for moving logs around ? are they better then forks or not?
I use a chain choker...bloody grapple is a pain...
QuoteI use a chain choker...bloody grapple is a pain...
a pain to use or a pain to put on and take off the front bucket i guess the product DVD's always make it look easier than it is which i guess is just a gimmick to sell the product conditions alway seem to be just right too ;D they never show reality do they
I know what you mean.They can make anything look good on TV.
Quote from: cuttingman423 on April 12, 2008, 08:11:18 PM
QuoteI use a chain choker...bloody grapple is a pain...
a pain to use or a pain to put on and take off the front bucket i guess the product DVD's always make it look easier than it is which i guess is just a gimmick to sell the product conditions alway seem to be just right too ;D they never show reality do they
it's 8' of hi vis chain with a chain hook on one end and a big steel ring on the other, roll the chain back on itself and lay it over the log, roll the log into the loop and drive off...
jeez, but I wish I had a FEL..I'd a got twice as much done today.
sorry for the confusion i was referring to the grapple being a pain i've been looking at them for skidsteer loaders since logs i handle are no longer then 6 foot hoping to talk ny business partner into buying a skidsteer and the grapple set-up for the bucket.
I've used a couple of different kinds of grapples. My favorite was made by Bobcat. It was a manure grapple for what we call "pen manure", or hard packed with a lot of straw for bedding. It consisted of 7 pointed 2" diameter rods for the forks, with two hydraulic top clamps like a standard brush grapple. I recently used a small tiny brush or "root rake" style grapple to move slabs, and I found the opening wasn't big enough, but it got the job done. I like having a top clamp for logs, they really slide around on forks.
Dave
Quote from: cuttingman423 on April 12, 2008, 08:28:54 PM
sorry for the confusion i was referring to the grapple being a pain i've been looking at them for skidsteer loaders since logs i handle are no longer then 6 foot hoping to talk ny business partner into buying a skidsteer and the grapple set-up for the bucket.
ah...and I was actually thinking of tongs...lol
The other nice thing about a backhoe bucket on the rear is it can be swung extreme left or right depending on the slope you are working to balance the tractor.
Ironwood
Hi,
Are you purchasing this tractor primarily for sawmill use? I might suggest a used comercial backhoe . The hoe, if it doesnt have one already, can be outfited with a thumb, and that is way handy for TONS of stuff you havent even imagined, including loading logs. THe FEL is also way more heavy duty than almost any log your going to want to manhandle onto a personal mill, and the best part is it will probably be significantly less than if you bought a new CUT that is only half the size.
THat said, I have a 34 hourse Kubota W/homemade forks and conterweight/skidder and it has done me VERY well. Being able to brush hog is nice also,
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16762/finished_product.jpg)
PS I have come to aprecaite this sites photo dealie.
PSS
Zopi, I use my forks to load my mill all the time, I drop them on a deck perpendicular to the mill and then it is a relatively simply peavy affair after that to roll the log on the mill.
Quote from: shinnlinger on April 12, 2008, 10:24:42 PM
Zopi, I use my forks to load my mill all the time, I drop them on a deck perpendicular to the mill and then it is a relatively simply peavy affair after that to roll the log on the mill.
oh..guess I could have said that better...i wouldn't load directly onto the mill frame...too easy to bend stuff..dead deck is the way to go.
i'm planning one soon.
Quote from: Dave Shepard on April 12, 2008, 08:51:56 PM
I've used a couple of different kinds of grapples. My favorite was made by Bobcat. It was a manure grapple for what we call "pen manure", or hard packed with a lot of straw for bedding. It consisted of 7 pointed 2" diameter rods for the forks, with two hydraulic top clamps like a standard brush grapple. I recently used a small tiny brush or "root rake" style grapple to move slabs, and I found the opening wasn't big enough, but it got the job done. I like having a top clamp for logs, they really slide around on forks.
Dave
i had Bobcat send me info and a dvd and after viewing the info i think ill go for a struckcrawler as i'm amazed at the amount of work and size of jobs ans such people used it for
and heres there grapple brush bucket http://www.struckcorp.com/images/DB480.gif
http://www.struckcorp.com/images/Grapple_Up.gif plus i'm still trying to figure out how they can sell their equipment for such a decent price compared to Bobcat and other skid steers.
Hey Dave what model Bobcat did you use with the grapple
John,you want a loader that will at least pick up a ton.forks mounted on their own boom[not on bucket]are the handiest.Advice about a used larger machine is sound.If you can afford one of those overpriced small tractors you could even find an articulated loader or loader backhoe that is four times the machine.Have your log yard and aproach to the dead deck level as possible,keep the load just off the ground.A three point counterweight is good if you want to be safer adjust the loader hyd. relief valve to bypass just before the rear wheels lift.Frank C.
Here is a link to the Bio-Mizer thread. You can see the skid steer quick attach on my FEL. I like it alot. Quick to switch from a High volume bucket to forks or to a dirt bucket.
I like the forks to hook as close to the loader as possible. You get a lot more lift capacity.
When looking at the lift capacity look at the rating for both the bucket edge and pivot pin. That will give you and idea of what the little distance changes the rating. Be careful not to get caught on the breakout force. That only applies to digging. And yes in order to get all the lift capacity you will need a counter weight on the back.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,29338.140.html (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,29338.140.html)
Well, I use a small tractor with FEL around the mill. Sometimes, I get a log a bit too large to lift and place on the mill, and then I use the tractor to roll the log up the ramps, using the forks on the FEL. Works pretty well.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13641/close%20up%20tractor%20stacking.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13641/log%20skidded.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13641/new%20fel%20log%20handling.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/P1090005.JPG)
One way to use tongs is to hang them so they hang flat from the forks. I use tongs a lot to pull logs off a trailer with sides or out the back of a pickup. They also work to pick a log out of the middle of a pile from the end. I can pick up a log, drag it out, and release it without ever leaving the seat of the tractor, with the tongs hung in this manner.
There's no doubt about it - a tractor would be a real help around the mill. Unfortunately, my tractors are at our farm, and my mill is here with me. 100 miles separates us. OK enough whining. Here's my 2 cents worth.
If money is an issue, and you want some real iron that won't tip over with a bucket load of stones, I'd recommend good old 1950-70 american iron. My Moline 670 Super cost me 3500, with a FEL. It has about 65 Horses, and is real iron. No, it ain't easy on fuel, and no it ain't nimble. However, it can pick up and move, or drag anything I have any business moving.
I have a friend with a 27 or so horse Kubota with a FEL. That little tractor is just the nicest, handiest, best running thing to come down the pike. However, it's not the thing I'd want to move logs that could easily weigh more than a couple thousand pounds. Maybe your logs don't run that big though.
That's about all I can add.
SRT is right on...I have a '55 oliver super 55 and a '49 Farmall C...either of which will pull just about any log I can saw...no problem..old iron rocks. I am however looking to add a compact utility tractor with a loader and backhoe for dirtwork and mowing...there are so many things one of the little buggers could save me time and energy doing...I finished pulling the foundation of a little stable I have been tearing up, out today, would've taken a couple hours with a little TLB...took a couple days busting it by hand, then picking up the chunks and hauling them out of the way...
On the bright side, I laid out the batter boards for my millshed and began sawing the timbers out..16' 6x6 ain't light.
Hi John,
If you would like to have the benefit of a real TLB without the size and expense you may want to consider an Allmand TLB. This is not a Teramite. It is much heavier and made for contractors not just rental yards. Check out there 4 wd diesel here. I have a 25hp gas version and it will lift 2000 lbs with no problem. The only problem I have is getting traction on rough terrain when carry 2k. As the bouncing of the load makes the back end too light. Counter weights or loaded tires would solve this. I have used a couple of large stones in the back hoe bucket to do this. By the way the back hoe is a beast. The power of this machine for its size is remarkable. If you are interested in a used one call Andy Klien and he will locate one in your area. You could get a gasser for around 10k and a Diesel for around 15k.
http://www.allmand.com/TLB%206235%20page.htm
Edit: I forgot. I have the skid steer type quick attach on the front end so I can use any skid steer attachments. I only have the bucket and forks but there are many attachments on ebay and such.
James
Ideally I'd like to have a 5-ton class mini excavator with a thumb and root rake, but that's just me. I have a JD 4100, which is almost too small for what I use it for. I have forks for the FEL and I can only pick up about 700#. A green, white pine log, 12' by 12" dia. is about its' upper limit, and that's not carrying it around, just picking it up and setting it on the mill.
What I'd like to get is a JD 110 TLB, which is mid-40's horsepower, designed as a FEL and backhoe, and can take any high-flow skidsteer attachment. Unfortunately, even a used one is big $$. Kubota makes a couple similar machines but I can't remeber model numbers. I am partial to JD only because I have a really good local dealer who treats me right.
Engineer,
I have a buddy who has a 110 w/ a loader that he uses around his LT15. It doesn't have a three point. WOW will that little thing lift :o :o. I will say parts are expensive, his main hydraulic pump cost $1000 to get fixed (new unit) :o :o Nice machine for it's small size.
Ironwood
Hi ! I have an old Oliver 42hp and do some logging but my next buy will be a Kubota L4400 HST, 43 hp, 4WD, loaded tires, a pto Farmi winch to haul logs to your trails, a quick attach set of forks on the loader ( quick attach loader) that can lift +- 2400 pds. To carry the logs to the *parking site*, I,ll use a carry axel. Good luck Roger
Thanks for the responses. The two brands that are availble in my area are Kioti and Farmtrac. I am leaning towards the Farmtrac 39hp diesel with fel and backhoe. The dealer is local and one of the few successful farms still operating here in Sussex County, NJ.
John
4WD too I hope.
Don't discount that Kioti. They are some strong and well built tractors.
FYI, Farmtrac is in receivership... Could affect parts supply down the
road.
My dad has an early Kioti, I think they improved over the years. I rented a twin to my dad's (he is 2 hours away) to work on a nieghbors septic and I broke the hoe's main pivot pin, IT WAS CAST IRON :o :o , why not steel I have no idea. Admittedly I was pivoting the back of the machine to the side balancing on the hoe (a typical move on a hoe) when it snapped, but they had no business making that critical part from cast. I think they ARE pretty good, my dad has used the heck out of his. 24HP I think, I dod know the clutch costs $350 to replace ;D I had hopped off a skidsteer and on to his tractor, and , well......you can't expect a tractor to move dirt like a skidsteer ::)
Scott S. (here on the FF) has a bigger Kioti, and I think he REALLY likes it.
Ironwood
Scottar
I am concerned about your info on Farmtrac being in receivership. How can I find out more about that?
John
ScottRA,
I googled it and found an article about the Farmtrac problems. Thanks for the heads-up.
John
JOhn,
For more on farmtrack.....
http://www.nettractortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12613#post12613
It looks like MOntana will be coverning parts and warranties on the compacts and Duetz fahr parts on the 700 series, so if you can buy a farmtrac for CHEAP and you are handy with a wrench it may be worth it.
I Have 3 neighbors with Kiotis ranging from 20-65horse with a 35 in the middle. All have told me on seperate occasions "next time I'm getting a Kubota" I dont think they have a specific beef, but just overall sentiment, but you may want to research that some more before you throw alot of bling at one.
For the record I have another neigbor with the civilian version of the JD110 (5320?) and he has had alot of problems with it. HIs JD just prior was a good machine though.
Been at work... Pesky job...
Since a good tractor will last 20 years or more a dependable parts supply is critical.
Ask someone with a daewoo car how easy they are to work on now. Although in a
stroke of irony, some the baby chevys are now daewoos. I don't think much
interchanges though.
Anywho, The newer economy JD's are worth a look. Anything with an 03 or 05 at
the end of the model #. Mostly older designs with solid hardware and few frills.
Simple is good methinks. Decent prices in my area at least.
The 110 is it's own animal. It doesn't have a green brother.
5320 is a utility series. Current models would be a 5X25 series.
Do not be afraid of used. Wasn't for used stuff I wouldn't have hardly anything at all. ;)