Management Questions

[beenthere]

Rockn H
Hopefully for you, the next surveyor doesn't come along and decide that the line is really off 40' to the south.  :  Then who will be right?
IMO, our ¼,¼ corner post for four properties should never be moved. If something is wrong, then the numbers should be changed to correct it (i.e the line lengths), not be moving the corner post to where a new surveyor thinks it should be.
Now granted, this may not be at all like the situation you describe, and I don't mean to imply it is. 

[Rockn H]

Beenthere, I hope your right. :D  No, actually when we bought the property we were looking at the old fence rows as the property line and I commented that the only neighbor we have ,which is to the north of us,  put their new fence way off in the woods for some reason. ;D  It only went for 20 acres though  and we're completely surrounded by woods on all sides.  The only thing we had to go buy was the old fences.  So to make an attempt at being legal( I agree with the earlier post about surverors will move it at least a foot everytime) we had it surveyed.  After the survey and alot of cruising by myself I feel we got her lined up.  Now our SW corner even lines up with Plum Creeks corner (it's a plantation so they just put the blazes in).  As a matter of fact one of the previous owners actually cut a man's throat over the property lines.     Thought I should add this was many, many years ago.  It's the new south now. :

[Bill H]

BlaBla, all public lands were surveyed before they are sold to the public. These surveys were recorded with the land office and described the monuments that were placed at the section and quarter corners (stone, charred post etc). These surveys are of pulic record and you can look them up. The original monument is always right, sections are suposed to be a mile square and most are close. But that said there are several instances of lousey surveyors one of which I have heard of in Mo. in which the surveyor didn't trust his measurements so he added an extra chain (66 feet)to his western borders of some of his sections to make sure no one was shorted, if you know where he surveyed in Mo. you can get a good deal because there is alot more acrage than 660 in those sections. Iam no expert on PLS surveying as I am only licensed in KY, but I know some PLS states require that surveys be recorded so you could find all past surveys to any parcel. That said, if you look up what the monuments are supposed to be and you find them (might have to ask neighbors what and where) you may not need a survey or the surveyor shouldn't charge as much, but if there is not any monuments then a survey is definatly needed and will cost $$$ :. Good luck, next trip to the property plan 2-3 days take a prism and do a inventoy and look for the legal monuments as recorded. As to the best way to pick a surveyor call several references and check your state board for any diciplinary actions. Bill Harned KY PLS 3728
wew this is way to long

[BlaBla]

What will the prism measure?

Thanks

[SwampDonkey]

The prism measures tree basal area (ft^2/acre) at breast height (4.5 feet). From that you can get density and with local volume tables you can get merchantable volume.

Sampling with prism

Also, check the knowledge base under the Forum Extras link - upper right.

[Ron Wenrich]

You can also use an angle guage.  Much cheaper than a prism and much harder to break.  Bought mine at Ben Meadows

There shouldn't be any reason that you can't grow large oaks.  The 20" tree with ants probably has some sort of rot.  The cause was probably from logging damage from the '76 cut. 

Careful cutting and skidding can avoid a lot of the damage.  Today's technology and loggers should do a better job.  You will always have some damage due to logging.

[SwampDonkey]

Yup to the angle guage, you can even make your own from a  piece of wood and some string.

You can find out how to make one and how to use it here.
http://www.ont-woodlot-assoc.org/sw_timbercruisept1.html

[Bro. Noble]

As for the boundry,  I would suggest that you visit the joining landowners if possible.  Usually there is an old fence or signs of logging in the past that indicates where the line is-----operhaps a good fence exists.  We had a high powered surveyor  (liscened in several states) move into the neighborhood.  He took his highpowered state of the art equipment all over the neighborhood telling everyone where their lines 'really' were.  One neighbor from California ( he has since returned) was thrilled that he was picking up 15 ft of property.  The joining neighbor didn't share his joy   The California went to an attourney to see what to do.  The attourney (a very competent one)  told him that it was very hard to change property lines that have been recognized by the neighbor historically.

If you have recognizable property lines.  perhaps one of the neighbors can show them to you.  In our neighborhood,  most of the neighbors know where the lines are on the neighboring places.

I wish that DanG surveyor would come back and take his DanG nails out of our trees >:(

[BlaBla]

Hey Bro. Noble, which DanG surveyor is that? I've probably at least talked to him on the phone.

[Ron Wenrich]

Reminds me of a survey that was done on a property where I had a timber sale.  There wasn't any need for the survey, but the landowners wanted to know where the boundaries were located.

The surveyors went off of the original deed that was dated 1792.  They took the metes and bounds, that were in chains, then proceeded to go around the boundary with a laser.

They walked us around the property, and when we got to some stone piles, they simply stated that they didn't know what they were, but they made new corners.  I knew what those old stone piles were.  They were the property corners.  Now everything is screwed up.  You have to realize that new technology is just a might bit more precise than dragging an old chain up through the mountain, not to mention what effect temperature had on it.

Stone walls can be something to go by, but they vary from area to area.  Some places they are dead on, while others are off a couple of feet.  You don't know what the neighborhood was like when they did the work.

I always tried to talk to adjoining landowners.  Having good neighbors is mighty cheap insurance.   ;)

[David_c]

just curious but isn't exsiting boundry marks, like stone piles, rods in the ground always right no matter if right or wrong. i was told that original survey is alway right so just checking.

[Ron Wenrich]

I always thought that, as well.  I believe if it ever went to court, the judge would take the oldest stone pile.

I did see an old warrant corner that wasn't used by the state on their property.  I know they missed it.  They were off about 100'.

On another property, we found a property corner that was established by the adjoining owner, which was a Girl Scout camp.  It didn't jive with our corner and we found ours 200' beyond the new corner. 

It was a moonlighting engineer that did the survey.  We called him on it, and he backed off real quick. 

To run line, I've always had success with compass and pace.  I can find property corners pretty quick, if they exist.  Lots of things can tell you where the line is located. 

Some of the worst deed corner discriptions I've seen include the stick in the ice and the man in the field.   :D

[Bro. Noble]

BlaBla,

I can give you the fellow's name in a PM if you want.  There is one that you did probably talk to that is a surveyor/forester.  I'd sure try to find the recognized lines from the neighbors and talk to Tim Stanton,  the farm forester with the conservation dept (or one of his staff).  There are two consulting foresters in the area that I know of.  I have dealt with both of them in the past when they worked with the conservation dept.

[David_c]

thats what i thought Ron. becuase when i had my property serveyed we where talking and he said that it always goes by original survey. an that it sometimes makes it hard becuae with todays technoligy that he finds they were always off, sometimes by quit a bit which sometimes makes it real hard to find original corners.. but that original markers where always right and you just had to adjust your new survey to follow original. sometimes you gain sometimes you loose property. like your stick in ice man in feild. definitly makes it hard to find.

[SwampDonkey]

I've been on a  couple woodlots in the last 3 years where the landowner, some 20 years ago, figured he was the surveyor and took to blazing and painting a line that wasn't there. Onr landowner in particular ended up following the contour of the hill side so there was a big bow in the line. He obviously never even used a compass and with running up and down hills he cheeted himself out of ground without slope correction. ;D Another problem with this lot is that his lot ran length ways to the rear end of 4 lots that run at 90 degrees (hope that makes sence). So it was suppose to be a baseline.  : It was resurveyed because even though it was marked for 20 years, it would easily be contested. I've also found old pasture fences in the woods and they don't mean much because farms ran their animals in the woods to a brook in these parts. If that fence was the line that there'd be alot of short woodlots on the grid and some very ugly woodlot owners. I've been on a woodlot that was once fields 80 years ago and there were 4 farms amalgomated. There was line fences marking out each farm and it was all mature woods. Some lots ran N-S, some E-W, the only definitive mark is the US/CANADA treaty monument on the back line of the woodlot. If you didn't measure your position in those woods and knew that the US border was at the rear, you'd have no clue where you were. ;D