New Shank/Bit Instal Help?

Charles135 · December 03, 2012, 08:24:43 PM

Beenthere,
Thanks for the video. Mine, even my old ones are no where near that easy to put in or take out. Like I said earlier, I have to give a little tap to the tool handle to get mine to move then that just slide in. I will try to use a bit more lubricant and see if that will help. I think part of my issue is a friction problem.

Jeff, I see what you are talking about. Thanks.

Ron Wenrich · December 04, 2012, 04:51:24 AM

That's what I meant about seating the shanks. I take my saw wrench and put it in the shank, then hit it with a hammer. Seats a shank, usually just by putting it in there.

How do the shanks look when you put one on top of the other? It seems like the new one has the knob sitting somewhat lower, and that doesn't allow it to come together the way the older shank does. It may be in the shank, and not the tooth. But, Simonds does have that quality issue I mentioned.

bandmiller2 · December 04, 2012, 07:32:23 AM

Seem older Simonds bits and shanks [when they had competion] were of better quality.When you find a lot that fits right and works well, stock up.Back in the eighties I stocked up on bits and shanks when they were more reasonable.I'll probibly be milling for St. Peter before I run out. Frank C.

Jeff · December 04, 2012, 08:59:55 AM

Just a note on the video. When Steamsawyer (If that is steamsawyer) seats the bit, then gives those last couple umphs to the tool, which is the same thing I did, you need to be careful. The 2nd worst I was ever cut by a saw was when doing that. The hardened pin in the change tool broke, and I drove one of the teeth deep into the palm of my hand. The first worst was when the same thing happened changing the teeth in the Horizontal edger between the fixed blades. The pin snapped and I drove the lower blade into my hand. I still have nerve damage in my right hand from that episode.

POSTON WIDEHEAD · December 04, 2012, 09:02:06 AM

That is STEAMSAWYER in the Vid.

Charles135 · December 04, 2012, 09:04:11 PM

Ron,
The shanks are identical as for a the small lobe, and the length and pin hole. The only difference is as it shows in one of the photos, the belly is jsut a mm or so deaper, I just thought maybe that is the difference between an new shank and one that has been in the blade for years.

Jeff,
I am very cautious when dealing with those bits, I have been cut pretty bad by another blade on a mill ,not mine, that i used to saw on.

Bandmiller2,
You want to part with any shanks?

Charlie

Jeff · December 04, 2012, 10:23:28 PM

Quote from: Charles135 on December 04, 2012, 09:04:11 PM
I just thought maybe that is the difference between an new shank and one that has been in the blade for years.

I think that is very likely

steamsawyer · December 05, 2012, 02:29:37 PM

Well... I don't know how I missed this thread the first time around. I usually glomb on to anything that has to do with roundy-round blades.

Yeah, I'd recognize that fatboy in the video anywhere... It's me.

I couldn't find anything on youtube about the subject so I made the video to show the basics of bit instalation. This is my new blade and it was the first time the teeth were replaced.

The main thing about the process is make sure everything is clean and use lots of lube. I usually drop the new teeth in a pan of motor oil and work from there. It is a messy job. I agree on the danger of breaking a pin. I heard about that happening so I usually lay a heavy weldors golve over the blade below the handle... but that day I never thought about it. Unfortunately you can't wear heavy gloves for this because you are handling the small parts.... That, and I am clumsy enough that if I had on gloves and fell down, I'd have to take them off to get up.... The shank should rotate into place without a bunch jerking and hammering like you see me doing, but without a good lock to keep the blade still it's hard to not whack on it.

I never noticed cracks in my shanks before but I have replaced them because of wear. What I found was the inside edge was rounded off and it was allowing the sawdust to run out the sides and cake on the sides of the blade causing it to bind in the cut.

It looks to me like there was a mix up and somehow you ended up with the wrong bits and shanks. I'm sure your supplier will make it right for you.

Alan

Charles135 · December 05, 2012, 09:18:24 PM

Steamsawyer,
In reference to the cracks, the mill I have had not been used for 15, 20 years and the blade just sat there and wasn't used. I could have been wrong on the stress causing the cracks but that is what it looked like when I went through a welding class over a decade ago. The cracks were within a 3/8 to 1/2 " of the tip opposite the bit. Each crack was almost at the exact same place on each shank. The shanks were very difficult to come out. I finally put penetrating oil on them and that helped but they were still mighty tight. I have received the new ones in the mail, but haven't unpacked them to see the brand and if they are going to work better. I am planning on soaking them in diesel or motor oil prior to an attempt.

And thanks for the video it was helpfurl!
Charlie

steamsawyer · December 05, 2012, 10:03:43 PM

Hey Charlie,

I was going back through your thread and I was looking for discussion about blade tension. I think we were all caught up in trying to diagnose your bit and shank issue, I guess since that was the original question. The thing is, the shank is also part of the saw tension. Each shank has a certain amount of spring built into it and they have to be in place for the saw plate to be hammered.

I hope the new parts are right and work out for you. You can try the blade to see if it will stand up ok at the right speed, but I suspect it will have to go to the saw doc.

Alan

bandmiller2 · December 06, 2012, 08:04:52 AM

Just to mention about tight shanks in saws that have lain fallow for a long time.I've found if you tap the gullet of the shank like your trying to seat it, will help along with snake oil.I use a section of 1" round stock,put it into the gullet then tap just outside with a light hammer,seems to break rusts grip. Frank C.

Charles135 · December 06, 2012, 08:33:48 AM

Steamsawyer,
The new part are fitting good. I do have an appointment next week to have th blade hammered.

Bandmiller2,
Thanks for that tip. I will use it if I run into the problem agian.

Charles135 · December 06, 2012, 08:36:21 AM

For those of you that were interested in the alternative brand shank it is Hoppe brand. They are made in the US and are fitting perfectly. I will send a photo of them ASAP. The Hoppe brand must be new. I did find them on the internet but can't seem to get the link to follow me over here.

If any of you guys have had any experience with the brand let me know abotu it please!
Charlie

reride82 · December 06, 2012, 06:38:18 PM

I'm glad you got your shank issue figured out Charlie ;)

Charles135 · December 06, 2012, 10:18:20 PM

Thanks Reride,
I continue to be impressed by the williness to share information and the amount of knowledge within this forum.
Charlie

bandmiller2 · December 07, 2012, 07:58:31 AM

Hoppe shanks are made in western Ma.on CNC machines if I recall.Its good to have anouther player and a choise.To the best of my knowledge bits are forged and ground,we need anouther company [on these shores] to make high quality bits,and mayby bits for some of the old discontinued patterns.Has anyone you know about tried silver soldering carbide on worn bits.??? Frank C.

Ron Wenrich · December 07, 2012, 08:18:09 AM

Arsaw makes carbide bits for inserted tooth saws. I don't know why they don't go over to regular bits. I have some new edger blades that had a P on the shank. Turns out they are made at Piper Saw shop. They also make a carbide bit.

bandmiller2 · December 07, 2012, 08:43:34 PM

I have a hunch they know they can't compete with the big fella on standard bits so stick to their specialty.Being a saw shop their probibly a Simonds dealer and don't want to upset that. Frank C.

Charles135 · December 07, 2012, 10:07:01 PM

Bandmiller2 and Ron,
I am glad there is another company in the game also. I can't say that a different set of Simond shanks might not have fit, but it is pretty sad they don't have the quality conrol to keep their standards up. When 0 out of a box of 40 shanks don't fit then I get a diffent brand and they all fit perfectly something is wrong.
Charlie

dgdrls · December 07, 2012, 10:25:08 PM

Charles135,

glad to hear you got your bits and shanks fitting

when do we get to see the ol' girl sawing some logs?

DGDrls

Charles135 · December 09, 2012, 11:11:17 AM

I get my blade hammered this week so I should have a gallery full of photos by this weekend if all gies well!

Jeff · December 09, 2012, 11:25:38 AM

I feel compelled too remind everyone that the gallery is for holding photos used in posts. If the photo is not going to be placed directly in a post, it should not be uploaded and taking up space in the gallery.

Charles135 · December 10, 2012, 02:27:37 PM

Thanks Jeff,
I wasn't aware. I'll only upload a few this weekend, but if this rain keeps up I may not get to take any!

dail_h · December 10, 2012, 06:06:11 PM

Charles,
Not sure if it makes any difference,, but in the picture of your blade above,,it looked like your guides might be rubbing the bottoms of the shanks. I've always been told that this wasnt good,, but then no saw expert here,, just thought that might could be the cause of stress cracks,, maybe Jeff, or Ron ,or one of the more experienced sawers might have input.

Ron Wenrich · December 10, 2012, 06:23:11 PM

I didn't notice that before. If that line is coming from the saw guide, then its way too high. Saw guides aren't supposed to touch the shanks. They should be about 1/4-1/2" inch below the shanks. Just so they don't touch.

That wouldn't be the cause of stress cracks in the shanks. I've had them in my shanks and the guide doesn't touch them. I talked it over with a guy who has big time experience with steel. He says its in the steel, and not much you can do about it. He also said that it wasn't anything to worry about.