Ideas for storing kiln dried lumber

[DR Buck]

I'm looking for ideas for storing lumber.  Particularly kiln dried after it is removed from the kiln.   Criteria is it has to be cheap!    One idea I have is to put up a small board & baton pole building with a wood plank floor raised above ground a few inches.  Add a metal roof close it in completly and sit a home dehumidifier inside. 

I would make it at least 9' tall inside as I like to stand the lumber on end to make it easy to sort through.

Any other ideas out there?

[WDH]

I sent you an e-mail with an attachment because I did not know how to include powerpoint drawings in the post.  If you find any value in these ideas and think we should post the drawings here for other's comments, and if you know how to do it, let me know and I will try to post.

[Larry]

Found some 102" wide containers 48' long for $2,800 delivered and sat.  Think they were only 8' tall but can't remember for sure.  Closer to a seaport the cheaper they become.  The containers I looked at were tight and had a good rubber seal on the doors.  According to the specs, the container only needs support at the four corners and is good for 66,000 pounds.  Add vents and a dark paint to raise the temperature.  Hoping to keep the wood at 8% by using heat only.  I'm thinking a dehumifier may be too expensive and won't work in cold weather.  Plan on doing little more research before I pull the trigger.  We were shooting elevations this morning...but it will probably be a while till I get em cause it's to wet for the truck to deliver right now.

[Murf]

If you want to use a shipping container or something similar to keep lumber in be sure to account for the thermal cycles. A closed container or building will heat up slower in the morning, and cool down much slower in the evening than the surrounding area will.

This will cause the most problem at night, the delay in cooling will mean the air drawn will be much cooler and more moist than that of sunset. This will cause it to basically add moisture to the box, not remove it.

The easy solution though is to buy a little gadget they sell for venting greenhouses. They are basically a mechanical arm that moves a window or vent open or closed as the temperature rises or falls beyond a set point.

[DR Buck]

WDH email text and pictures

Attached is a lumber storage rack that I built on one side in the back of my shop.  I think that it would work well to store kiln dried lumber as you suggested using a dedicated small building with a dehumidifier.  You could put a rack on each long side of the building and one on the short end in the back.

With this rack, there are 5 bays on each side with each bay 2' x 2' x 8' on the two long sides and 2' x 2' x 6' on the short side.  Allows you to sort easily by species or grade.  Each bay can store over 350'.  With 2 long sides and 1 short side, this small building can store over 4000' with easy access to each bay.  Very efficient storage.  Here is a powerpoint file with some suggestions.

With the support member design, the weight gets transferred to the wall of the building  and to the floor with no sag.

[DR Buck]

WDH,

I assume in the proposed layout you store your lumber stacked horizontal?   I'm thinking I'd like to store it standing vertical so I can 'flip' through and look at it without unstacking.

[WDH]

Yes.  With this design the lumber is stored horizontal.  But, each bay holds a relatively small amount, so it is fairly easy to sort through.  If you did not have a great quantity of Kiln dried lumber, vertical would work slick.  If you had thousands of feet, vertical might be more problematic. 

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

I have an old railroad warehouse which is "in-process,"
so to speak.

Anyway, one day I hope to have a combination of bays,
such as WDH describes which are contained within groups
of standing boards up to 14' tall.   The idea is a central stack of bays,
with a left hand standing group leaning against this stack of bays
and a right had standing group leaning against the stack of bays.

8' and shorter would be in the bays.  The long ones standing, but
supported to keep them from regaining any twist (hopefully),
as they wait for the right buyer!  No time to sketch it, so I know this
makes little sense.

Phil L.

[WDH]

Here is a pic of the rack with the bays I described. 



It is on the back wall of my shop, but I could envision a small building where when you come in the door, there is a wall of bays on the left, right, and back walls, like a horseshoe.    The central area in the middle is for access to the bays.  You could store other stuff in the middle area as long as it didn't impede access to the bays.  You could make more bays to each unit to increase your sorting options.  Mine has 5 bays if you count the floor.  You could easily build it with 7 or 8 bays.  The benefit to this design (if you are storing lumber horizontal) is the strength of the unit.  2000 bd-ft of dried lumber can weigh 3 tons, so the support unit has to be stout.  In this configuration, the arms holding the lumber transfers the weight to the 2 x 4's the arms are sandwiched between and the weight is transferred to the floor.

Another benefit is that the front of each bay is open so it is real easy to access the stack, add to or take away.  No support structures to get in the way.

With humidity control, you could store over 5200 bd-ft if all three units were 8 foot long.  With 10 foot bays, you could store over 6300 bd-ft.  You could make them 16 foot long if your lumber required it.  In this pic, the "floor" bay is walnut, the 2nd bay is oak, the third bay is poplar, the fourth bay is red cedar, and the top bay is cherry.  I am sure this is clear as mud ???.

[beenthere]

The design as shown and as loaded might possibly fail due to long-term loading of the upright studs and the top plates. Most 2x4's are not strong enough to resist splitting between the two bolts (the shelf bracket being sandwiched between two upright 2x4's helps). I'd suggest scabbing 1/2" plywood glued to the outsides of the 2x4's with the bolts going through all glued layers. The plywood will help keep the 2x4's from splitting up the middle between the top and bottom bolt.

At least it is something to keep an eye on. If there is glue in the bolted joints now, that may help.
By the looks of it in the last picture, the entire wall may come down as much of the load is transferred to the top plates, in bending.  Again, not meaning to alarm, just something to watch.

WDH
You may have these loads covered, but someone may follow the plan and not have sufficient strength in the 2x4 material that you have. Certainly makes a neat rack for wood.

[Furby]

It's possible to use the same brackets to seperate wood standing on end, just make the brackets a bit longer.
On the floor make a U shaped base nailed to the studs to keep the bottom of the boards from kicking out.

[WDH]

Good comments beenthere.  I am OK in my application because on the other side of the wall holding up the rack is an adjoining shed that is 16' wide with the roof rafters tied into a double 2 x 10 beam (with a plywood sandwich) bolted to 6 x6 treated support posts and on the other side of that shed is another 10' connected shed similiarly anchored with a double beam and posts.  So, there is no way that wall could collapse unless it pulled 2 connected sheds anchored by 2 tiers of 6 x 6 posts down with it.  That is not going to happen.  Also, the support arms and other support pieces are glued to the 2 x 4 sandwich members to tie it all together.

However, without that level of back-up support, I support your comments and concerns if the wall was free-standing with normal framing that did not have extra re-inforcement designed in.  Thank you for pointing out the siginficant risk associated with this design if there is not proper wall re-inforcement.

While this works slick, and most of the weight is transferred to the floor, LISTEN TO WHAT BEENTHERE HAS POINTED OUT AND IF YOU USE THE DESIGN BUILD IN GOOD RE-INFORCEMENT LIKE USING 6 X 6 POSTS OR OTHER MEANS TO SUPPORT THE WEIGHT.

Thank you, beenthere.  I was blinded by my own application :-[.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

WDH and Been T.

I have a similar problem in that my old warehouse is old masonry
construction, therefore it depends upon balanced loads at all times
on very thick unreinforced brick walls with 110 year old mortar.  Third world
earth quake disaster waiting to happen.

MORE DIRECTLY BACK TO  DR. BUCK's ORIGINAL QUESTION :
           (MAN, can I get off topic and wander.)

If the   1, primary issue is maintaining the kiln dryness of kiln dried lumber; and
           2 is reasonable sorting capability and access; and
           3 is design appropriate for the structure.

1. Maintaining dryness
In a sealed chamber, two things can cause wood to regain moisture:
Micro-leaks of air could re-introduce moisture.  Secondly,  osmosis,
this is the process where tiny amounts of H2O are
continuously migrating into the dry space from a damper space (outside).   
This happens even through 6 mil. polyethylene. In a sealed shipping
container with new rubber seals or at least good ones, and one which
has been caulked and painted inside, osmosis would be amost zero. 
Leaks would be very tiny indeed. The major source of reintroduced
moisture would come when you open the doors.   Opening the doors
on a bright clear Jan. day of 20% rel. humidity might actually lower
the relative humidity in that chamber.  An open door on a damp day
would give a puff of moister air.  Etc.   My point is that maintaining the
relative humidity down in the 30ish percent area with a home dehumidifier
will be a piece of cake. It won't even need to run all the time.  It could be
set to run on the warmest days for efficiency sake.   No ventilation should
be used period!   This is not a kiln, but  is a maintenance and storage
device. Vents are not an issue, because you don't  want outside air.
You want to maintain the envelope.  (Even higher temps in the summer
won't be an issue.  The envelope maintains the moisture.  In the summer, just
set the dehum. on a timer to run in the early morning.  Its own humidistat
will protect against any over drying.  Timer can shut it off before the temp.
climbs too much.)

2.  Sorting capability and access.
Due to the size and shape of the typical storage container,  WDH's system
would work, provided you add the extra beefiness which Been T suggests.   
Cross members at the top would balance the side loading of the walls of the
container.   The actual weight of course goes to the floor stucture in WDH's
design.  That is good.  We know the floor of the container can take it. 
As Furby says, just mix standing systems with the shelf/bay system and you are set.

3. Appropriate design for the structure.
(We done got that one.)  We might just add the thought of supporting
the leaning piles to reduce any tendency to bow the boards over time. 
A tilted based at the bottom of each leaning group, to permit board
searching/shuffling without the boards "walkin" out at the bottom could also help.
smiley_bull_stomp                     Please excuse me, if I seem dogmatic here.   
                                                 I jusshaftahslapmahselff back into gear sometimes.
In my obsessive/compulsive mind, this seems to be
a summary of what we have all been saying and put it into a package.
           Help!  I can't stop myself!   Help!Phil L.                           Dr Buck, when you get one all done, just send one to me.
                                    Sounds like it will work great!

[WDH]

Excellent summary, masterfully done!  There ain't nothing wrong with being dogmatic........I am a GA bulldog myself 8).