Why are australian and American mills so different

[Jack jr]

G'day everyone,         
I am wondering why Small time aussie and American mills are run so differently, from what I have read American mills always use a set works and the main saw is expected to do most of the cutting, with it being finished in an edger, where as old aussie mills don't run a set works just bump and measure, and is only used to break a log down till it fits n the bench,
Some didn't even have a break down saw on tracks and a buzz saw. Cheers Jack jr ps if anyone can tell me how to stop ending up with so much blank page that would be a great help.

[rusticretreater]

Before you post, or even after you post(go to edit mode) click at the last word in your post and hit the down arrow button until you reach the bottom of the post.  This will show you if you have any blank lines in your post.  Then hit the backspace button until the cursor moves to the end of the text.  That will delete all your blank lines.

[WV Sawmiller]

Jack,

  I hope I don't say something to offend anyone but I think it is a different mind set. I have worked overseas with many Aussies and Kiwis and I loved them but then again I was raised in a rural environment and people were more laid back. I worked a project in Norway in 2007-2009 and we got an Aussie Safety Officer. I picked him up at the airport and he introduced himself as Zac. I asked if he went by Zac or Zachery or such and he said "Dad was a simple man. He just named me Zac."

  Simple, straight forward, on point. No need to put on airs. I think we American's get too hung up on perfection and want to get a micrometer out and check each board while the Aussies I worked with would more likely look at it and say "Its a barn board or a fence board and it will work fine as it is so leave it alone." Fortunately for me I have local customers with similar attitudes and will say "That little bit of bark won't hurt anything. Throw it on the pile as it is instead of making a 2X4 our a decent 2X6 with a little wane.

  Also I suspect the Aussie builds are designed for more remote use where you want to keep maintenance issues simple and something you can fix in the field instead putting it on a computer analysis machine back in a shop.

    I'm not sure I agree about the edger as I certainly edge my boards on the mill rather than hauling around another separate machine but then again I'm sawing mobile instead of in a stationary shop. I will confess I love my set works as when I turn to the last face I start on a predetermined mark and left the machine keep up with the math for me.

  Good on you there. Stay safe and keep the Mamolite or Vegemite and such for your own use.

[Jack jr]

G'day,

If anything in that offended me I'd me in trouble 😄
That sounds reasonable, our mills where often built by the people who run them, thanks for taking the time to answer, and thanks for thechelp with the blank spacers. Cheers Jack jr

[longtime lurker]

Couple of things come into this.

Firstly Australian hardwoods in general are far harder than anything in North America. Because of that our carriage speeds are geared down a lot slower, because you try and put a 56"  main and 48" top saw into an ironbark at US mill speeds and you're going to break things. And it won't be the log gets broken. Boards aren't worth more because it took you longer cut them... you'd go broke cutting 6x1 on a carriage here if the carriage has to run at breakdown saw speeds.

Secondly breaking a log down into flitches and cants for resawing on a bench enables you to get straight timber from springy logs. It also allows you to work around pipes or rot patches to get better recovery. But spring is the one... you drop tension at the headsaw and cut straight boards on the bench.

Thirdly its 2024 not 1954. Yanno... a mill running a Canadian Twin and 2 or 4 man breast bench was state of the art 30 years before I was born. Small mills in Australia today do size on the breakdown rig be it a linebar carriage, rack bench or twin edger. I literally gave my breast bench away because I can't afford to pay 2 men to do what can be done on a one man bench. Don't get me wrong I love visiting old style sawmills but I'm in business to make money and you can't make money running inefficient old gear. Cuz again... it ain't worth more because it took you longer or took double the labour to cut it.

[Jack jr]

G'day Longtime, 

Thanks for the reply, I assumed they had less tension, as I couldn't how they could adjust for it on there saws, must be stuck in 1954 where I am 😄 as the one I do a bit of work at and my mates one both run 2 man benches and only one has a Canadian saw for breaking down, the other is using a chainsaw. I am yet to see a one man bench in person.

Cheers Jack jr

[barbender]

 I was hoping you'd give some insight, LL.

[longtime lurker]

G'day Longtime,

Thanks for the reply, I assumed they had less tension, as I couldn't how they could adjust for it on there saws, must be stuck in 1954 where I am 😄 as the one I do a bit of work at and my mates one both run 2 man benches and only one has a Canadian saw for breaking down, the other is using a chainsaw. I am yet to see a one man bench in person.

Cheers 

There would have been 6 or 8 mills running canadians and benches around here when I was a kid, and I never put them down as a mill setup... a 4 man bench is still the best way to get quarter sawn timber off and watching skilled men bench out is a thing of beauty to me.

But getting men to work a breast bench today is the problem. One man benches have been around since the mid 60's and they were (and still are) a significant investment... but those who made the investment grew and those that didn't have slowly disappeared. With the question marks hanging over the Australian hardwood industry today I don't know if that would be a wise investment but I do know that if you've got 4 years worth of logs ahead of you, you can either pay off a one man bench or pay wages for two guys around a 2 man bench. God knows I'm up to my neck in debt trying to grow my show but I am going forward not stuck living groundhog day.

[Jack jr]

G'day Longtime,

I can appreciate that paying 2 or 3 men to do the work of 1 isn't a good money wise in today's world, the few little mills around me are all family owned and mostly operated, and are cutting a living and not much else, so I guess it wouldn't makes sense to invest in a one man bench, the reason I run one is I love the history and simplicity of them, and I'm only trying to cut a living not build a bigger company, thanks for the insight, I'll ask around and see if I can see a one man bench in operation.
Cheers Jack jr

[beenthere]

What you call a bench saw, is similar to what is also a bolter saw. Our OSHA, iirc, takes a dim view of them, but not sure that isn't the more liberal approach to any saw with a rotating sawing blade.

https://www.osha.gov/etools/sawmills/additional-head-saw-images

[trapper]

could one of you post a short video running a bench saw? I have never seen one.

[beenthere]

or

[Jack jr]

The second video is closest to my mill, I don't know how to post it, but if you look on youtube for a video called the old mill by Brendon Stuart, which I think shows it as clearly as you will see on youtube. Cheers Jack jr 

[beenthere]

[Jack jr]

G'day Beenthere, that's the clip I was referring to. Thanks for putting it on here. Cheers Jack jr 

[trapper]

thanks for the videos

[dgdrls]

great topic,  in the end they are similar systems, 
 edger or bench, they push out "finished" boards

For me I really like the Aussie, NZ style mills and bench saws,

D

[longtime lurker]

Australian hardwood mills have developed to suit the local log resource which is  predominantly eucalypt species. Eucalypts tend to have a lot of log tension so separating primary breakdown from resawing is the easiest way to get a quality product from the resource. It's not the only way of course but it is the easiest.

And there are generational shifts in the technology used. The video beenthere posted is my grandfathers generation tech... a rack saw as shown or Canadian for breakdown and a 2 man bench was a great set-up in the 1960's and that gear still works today its just not as efficient as newer systems. But even today a 2 man bench is a fixture in a lot of modern mills... out the back as a recovery saw so you aren't slowing the production equipment down bringing stuff back for resawing after it's gone down the line.

The next generation of equipment from about the late 1960's was the refinement of the older gear. Carriage mills with linebars become common and the capacity to size at the headsaw whatever its type because sized flitches make for more productive resawing. One man benches with reversing belts and roundabouts instead of 2 man benches to do the resawing. Push button hydraulic or air sizing instead of the old trewalla or pin guages that were set manually.

Today twin edgers are the predominant new installation breakdown saw because they're faster than a carriage mill and better suited to the smaller sized logs we run on: There's not much point in running a headsaw designed for 5 foot diameter logs when the average log is under 24 inches at the butt. Flitches feed to multisaws with shifting gangs and the whole shebang has scanning, optimisation, and lasers to reduce the need for skilled eyeball input.

All of the above work, and there's no hard and fast rules about what you should have because the local resource is the best determinant of what will work best. Twin edgers don't suit a low grade resource and having two saws when one is parked out of the cut all day is pointless and less effective than a carriage mill for instance. Multisaws are great if you have the volume to support them but not the solution for best grade recovery. There's a whole lot of less common options to look at as well. And all these toys cost $$$$$ and the politics of native forest log supply makes investment a gamble: if I might be jobless after the next state election, do I really want to bet the house on a new mill system? Guarantee me a minimum 50,000 ton of log over the next decade and I go left, give me half that i hold course, for today I'm keeping my options open about veering right.

Ya don't have to be mad to be sawmillers here , but it does help.

[Ron Wenrich]

Those mills look a lot like a Kara sawmill from Finland.  Is this your style of mill?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWpskIMyhXM&t=5s&ab_channel=KARAOFFICIAL

The difference between that mill and typical hardwood mill is the use of headblocks and tapers.  Most have a dog on each headblock that holds the log in place while sawing.  It also helps controlling the log tension.  This is pretty typical of a medium sized mill in my area.  Large mills run linebar resaws and use a circle mill for primary log breakdown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIwCaFJ0UGU&ab_channel=JacksonLumberHarvesterCo.%2CInc.

Softwood mills are a different ballgame. 

[longtime lurker]

Hi Ron

The headsaw in the video is some type of rack bench of uncertain parentage, kara are also a type of rack bench so similar operating principles.

The breast bench is the 2 man resaw in the latter half of the video