New guy with a Belsaw M14

[nk14zp]

nk14zp...    a big ol thermoquad with headers on that 440 ??


I think it would be OVERKILL if I run my belsaw with my 400... lol  I took it mild, 8.5 to 1 compression to run 92 octane,  a slight massage camshaft 344 duration, .510 lift, 104 centerline (in that range)   452 heads with single plane intake with the green shaft thermoquad , having bigger butterflies, the second rings in the primarys removed and accelerator pump drilled out.. should flow around 900-950 cfm.    .

Not sure what carb they had on it.  All my 440s are square bore.  I run a predator on the one that's up and running.

[Chop Shop]

nk14zp...    a big ol thermoquad with headers on that 440 ??


I think it would be OVERKILL if I run my belsaw with my 400... lol  I took it mild, 8.5 to 1 compression to run 92 octane,  a slight massage camshaft 344 duration, .510 lift, 104 centerline (in that range)   452 heads with single plane intake with the green shaft thermoquad , having bigger butterflies, the second rings in the primarys removed and accelerator pump drilled out.. should flow around 900-950 cfm.    .

Not sure what carb they had on it.  All my 440s are square bore.  I run a predator on the one that's up and running.

I like predators!   Soon to have a blower under them!   Its in my "raft"!  Haha!

   

 

[shelbycharger400]

squARE BORE ...    :  holley/ carter afb flange intakes  :

Lemme tell you, ID NEVER run a holley!  dial in a motor with a thermoquad with the pheolic bowl...  no vapor lock.  You can just about adjust EVERYTHING...  down to setting the timing of primary /secondaries to primary and secondary opening at the same time  .

I had a big thermoquad on a 327... I couldnt lean that carb out enough but lemme tell you that thing sounded SWEET off idle to wot in very little time!!

[bandmiller2]

You fellas are headed down the wrong trail with those bag swelling dragster engines even near a mill. You want big heavy long stroke diesel with a bottom end. Leave those high revers in the fast cars and boats. Frank C.

[shelbycharger400]

Ill be using a 4 cylinder case,  their not too bad on fuel

[backwoods sawyer]

The bell saw that I picked up came from a full time sawyer and was powered by a 351 out of a 70 ford LTD, he ran a thin rope along the wall where he would just give it a twist and he could run the saw from any place down the length of the mill, he ran a 52" saw on the mill. Log loader was a 4x4 51 dodge 2 ton with rear A frame boom. The other day we hiked back in to check on his old Donkey and it is salvageable as well.



 

[Chop Shop]

One of the guys I have been getting things from has a two spool donkey out there also.   Its in its own enclosure.

There are so many machines out there that I dont know what they do.

One machine is a Stetson Ross Machine works.   I think older than the 20s?

Ill have to post some pics.

[tantoy]

Chop, I recently set up a bell saw and run it from my tractor. If you want you can come check it out. I live off mountain highway and 288th Graham. I use a old international gas tractor ID-9. Approx 50 engine hp. Blade condition seems to make a big difference. I had a shop off of meridian hammer some blades (42" and 48") and it helps. Have to keep the feed rate going even if you run out of power. Its still kind of a learn as you go business (more like expensive hobby for me).

[Chop Shop]

Chop, I recently set up a bell saw and run it from my tractor. If you want you can come check it out. I live off mountain highway and 288th Graham. I use a old international gas tractor ID-9. Approx 50 engine hp. Blade condition seems to make a big difference. I had a shop off of meridian hammer some blades (42" and 48") and it helps. Have to keep the feed rate going even if you run out of power. Its still kind of a learn as you go business (more like expensive hobby for me).

Your about 50 blocks from me!    Did you have some rigs for sale across the hiway from yourplace this summer?  Over by maxes gravel yard?  Maybe a toyota and a big ol farmall?

Anyways, I would love to come see it and maybe be able to offer some horsetrading too!

[Chop Shop]

So I bought a power plant today.   I was really hoping to find something old and vintage for power.

So I found a 1941 ford flathead straight six.  Its a first gen 226ci,  90hp engine.

It looks nice and looks like its an older resto.   The guys uncle pulled it out of a restored ford truck in favor of hotrod drivetrain.  I found it on craigslist and it was cheap!

Its complete from oilpan to carb.  Has a bellhousing and a clutch, but no tranny.

I think its going to match the old mill perfectly (at least look good!) and be cheap to run.   My pops (75 yo) is an old hotrodder and knows these things inside and out.

My dad has run a hotrod upholstery shop for 50 years.  After talking with the seller for awhile it turns out his uncle has had my dad upholster 3 rigs already and the 41 pickup is scheduled up next at my pops shop!

SMALL WORLD!!


ps Tantoy/Fred, it came from about a mile from your place!

I couldnt pass it up for $100!!

[bandmiller2]

Good deal Chops, but you should really hook up a governor. Once you start to cut your RPM will droop below your hammered speed, which is not good for the saw, you or the lumber. Frank C.

[Chop Shop]

Yep Im looking for one right now.

Can a rob/adapt one off of a tractor?  I have an old cub for parts thats all torn down and in boxes.  Ill have to look and see if the gov on my cub looks like it could be adapted.

[Dave Shepard]

Cub should have a gear on it that runs of the timing gears. I'm not sure how you would do it, but you could probably put a pulley on in place of the gear, but I wouldn't have clue how to match the rpms.

[HOGFARMER]

Look for a old gas powered gleaner or john deere combine.  They use belt driven govenors on chevy 6 cylinder engines.  One of these would be easy to adapt.

[tantoy]

Good deal Chops, but you should really hook up a governor. Once you start to cut your RPM will droop below your hammered speed, which is not good for the saw, you or the lumber. Frank C.

OK Brad, You solved the mystery, pm your # and we can talk and come over and look at my and (mostly my dads) old iron. Check out what we learned about setting up a belsaw. Pretty sure I saw your truck/trailer at emerald this morning on my way to work.

[bandmiller2]

Some of the guys that run auto or truck engines install an after market cruse control, which is nothing but a governor. I have never done it myself but they will work. Frank C.

[Chop Shop]

OK Brad, You solved the mystery, pm your # and we can talk and come over and look at my and (mostly my dads) old iron. Check out what we learned about setting up a belsaw. Pretty sure I saw your truck/trailer at emerald this morning on my way to work.

Yeah That was me.   I was on my way back from Edgewood.  We had four units of cedar on the trailer and about 300 fascia in the back of the truck!   I was sweating bullets going up the hill into Edgewood!   It was all wet fenceboards, about 14k behind me.

I picked up the the ol flathead engine today.  Its pretty nice.  Ill get some pics tomorrow in the light.


Thanks Fred, Ill shoot ya my number.  Be nice to see ya again.

[Chop Shop]

Im kinda fascinated with the cruise control governor.

I think will have to look into the speedo cable hookup and see if the old ford could be adapted.

[pineywoods]

Chop, the after market cruise controls are real easy to hook up. They don't work off the speedo. A small magnet glued to any rotating part and an electronic pickup coil. Needs a vacuum hose to the intake manifold and a small chain to the throttle arm. Much more flexible than a mechanical governor. That old flat head ford is a good one. They are a bit prone to loose wrist pins..

[Chop Shop]

Can  Belsaw be hooked up to direct?  No belts?

It seems as if all the automotive style ones I see are hooked up with belts and pulley at some point.

I see tractor ones run off of pto directly.  The tractor has a clutch for the slip point.

Are the belts and clutches a safety device thats needed?  Or can they be direct drive?

I have noticed people complain about belt and clutch slippage so would eliminating them be better?



I figure an engine running at 2000rpm and a 4 to 1 ratio gearbox would put me right at the 500rpm arbor/blade speed needed.

Am I all wrong here?

[Cutting Edge]

Are the belts and clutches a safety device thats needed?

Yes, very much so.  When things go horribly bad, you'll be glad you have some sort of break in the power transmission.  Safety First!  Equipment hooked up direct with no means of disengaging the power source is a recipe for disaster... it can happen before you have time to react.

[bandmiller2]

The normal engine like your flathead ford turns right, a tractor PTO turns left. In other words if you hooked the ford up direct it would turn the saw backwards. You could turn the engine around with a jackshaft, in other words the fan facing the mill. A transmission in reverse would do if you could get enough speed to the arbor. Mills other than Belsaw have the arbor on the sawyers side of the mill and can use a right turning engine. Frank C.

[bandmiller2]

I forgot to add there are some left hand mills that can be powered with a tractor PTO on the sawyers side. No one ever said it was simple. Frank C.

[Brian_Rhoad]

Here's a place for cruise controls.

http://www.rostra.com/index.php

[Chop Shop]

Well are al belsaws run the same way?  right/left only one?  I see blades get hammered for right and left.   Does the saws arbor threads determine/dictate what direction the blade can rotate?


I want to put the engine sideways on the mill trailer. Then put the power around the corner with a ring and pinion   There would still be the clutch at the flywheel for disengaging/engaging things.

Can the clutch be considered the "safety"?  or maybe I can put in a softer key on the arbor shaft?   Seems like the only safety on a tractor is the clutch and PTO shear pin.

I just want to avoid belts if I can.