Business Opportunity

[DanG]

I'm looking at an opportunity that has come my way, as a possible enhancement to my sawmill income.  Just up the road a piece is a very large mushroom farm, which generates many tons of surplus compost.  They have a network of dealers around the area to help dispose of this valuable resource.  The only dealer in my vicinity has just discontinued selling it, and they are looking for a new dealer.  I have the space and a loader on my tractor, and I'm here most all the time, so I'm thinking about taking it on.

The money is pretty good.  They will deliver a 40-45 yard load to me for $150.  I can easily sell half-yard scoops of the stuff for $15, and the market may well bear $20.  All it entails is dumping a scoop into someone's truck or trailer and holding my hand out for the money. ;D 8)

Now comes the question.  I'm scared to death about bumping somebody's vehicle with the loader and causing a liability problem.  So, I'm trying to come up with a chute of some sort to keep the tractor away from the vehicles.  It needs to be simple, cheap, and foolproof.  I could use a conveyor of some sort, but I'd like to stay away from anything mechanical for cost reasons.  Any and all ideas are appreciated.

[isawlogs]

  Charge 12 $ and let them load themselves .  :P ;D

  Or .. build a U shape box openned the width of your loader and give or take 3 to 4 feet high ,  have them drive up to it ... that way you can only hit the box and not the trailer or truck ,

[Tom]

Bag it and sell bags. 

Y0u are in peanut country and peanut bags should be available.  Fifty lb. Bags are 50¢ each. Compost is $3.50 a bag. 
Bring the bag back, or bring your own bag and it's $3.00 a bag.  "You Load'em".

[Gary_C]

Sorry DanG, but Murphy's Law rules here. Thats why we use your name.   ;D

It seems like no matter what kind of equipment you use, occasionally something bad happens. Your best defense is having rules that NEVER are violated. For example never load when there is not enough light. Make all the passengers get out of the vehicle you are loading. Make sure you have a good place to load with plenty of room and solid footing. Don't let anybody else load. Do not get into a situation where you have to turn when you are close to the vehicle, approach in a straight line.

I am sure you can think of more rules. Other than that, dont loose your fear and get complacent. Then if Murphy wins, it is just an unavoidable cost of doing business.   :'(

[RichlandSawyer]

  As the old song goes "give me 40 acres and i'll turn this rig around" but they'll have to hit something on the way around.
most people can barely drive forward let alone back under a shute without knocking it over. I'd lay down the coin to
mr hootie and get a nice conveyor. And plenty of insurance. Sounds like a great opportunity to make a little spending money. GoodLuck


RS

[moosehunter]

DanG,
Put a couple of RR ties (or timbers from your mill) length wise for the ustomer to back alongside. The put a larger tie (timber) a pre determined distance from the first tie. The second tie should stop your front tires before any part of the tractor can hit the vehicle being loaded.
Just a thought.
mh

[Onthesauk]

I've been buying cow manure with sawdust bedding from a dairy every Spring for the last five years, six or seven loads each year.  They have a  loader with a 1 1/2 yard bucket they use to load the pickup and have never had a problem.  Key thing I always think is to have a good stable base to work off.  Too easy otherwise for a tire to settle and drop the bucket into something.

My Sister buys mushroom compost for a farm about 60 miles north of me, currently paying $20 a yard.  I'd buy a couple of yards if it wern't so far away.  Wonderful stuff to mulch flower gardes with.

[scsmith42]

DanG, I second Tom's advice.

From a business perspective, although slightly more labor intensive, by bagging it and selling the bags you are increasing your market opportunities.  Your potential customers may not all be folks who have a pickup or way to handle bulk compost.   

Local resellers may also be interested in purchasing your bagged product.

You can probably obtain a higher net profit as well.  The only downside is the additional labor to fill the bags.  I'd rather run a loader any day of the week! ;D

[DanG]

Oh, the possibility of bagging hasn't escaped my attention.  The problem there is the drying process.  This stuff will come to me soaking wet and steaming hot, literally.  I would definitely explore the possibility of drying and bagging, though.  I would also offer a "you shovel" option on a "bring your own bucket" basis.

Around here, the primary customers will be gardeners who will use a couple of yards of compost to prepare their gardens.  Most of them will have a pickup or trailer that I can load it into.

One of the problems I have noticed with the people who pick up sawdust is the size of the pickup beds.  A 6 foot bed with a toolbox is just too short to load gracefully, as the loader is 5 feet wide.  The chute would have to taper down to about 3 feet, which would solve this problem as well as some of the other challenges.  The chute would also be a "pull-through" operation with ample turnaround room, so nobody would ever have to back a trailer or truck.

[brdmkr]

Dan,

What about a large wooden box with a heavy tarp chute underneath that forms a cone.  Truck backs under the cone.  You dump into the box?  I would also encourage you to figure out a way to advertise and deliver.  It might take more time, but it should reduce your liability.  That stuff really sells well around here.  I think it goes for a 20.00/bucket at the landscape places and they are often sold out.

Let me know if you need any help with your construction.

Mike

[DanG]

Hey MIKE!  I need help with my construction. ;D

Actually, I have a decision to make first.  You're welcome to come down and help me cogitate, though. ;)

[getoverit]

I like the idea of a conveyor also. Not only would this eliminate the possability for you to bump their vehicle, but it might also "fluff" the load and make it seem like they got more than they got (if that makes sense?) of course, if they wanted more than one scoop, you could leave the conveyor running while you went to get another scoop to dump into the hopper. It would also be adjustable for height, so no matter what they came to haul with, you could load it with the conveyor. They would only have to pull along side the conveyor chute to load their truck or trailer, then just pull straight off.

by loading it slower with the conveyor, you also wont have to worry about someone claiming you are breaking their springs.. just a slow steady addition to the vehicle.  heck, you might even be able to use the conveyor to load bags.

[Jeff]

Why would you want to fool a customer into thinking they got more then they thought?

Dang, we spent years loading trucks with sawdust and bark and slabs and what not and things do happen and not always something you can control. Conveyors are a pain in the butt. They break. often.   I like brdmkr's idea a lot. 

[getoverit]

I remember when the vacuum packed coffe came out. Most people wouldnt buy it because it looked like you werent getting a pound of coffee. They would go for the canned coffee instead. A pound of coffee in a can looks like more than a vacuum packed bag does. he same thing goes for the potato chip people filling that chip bag with air. Huge bag-not many chips.  People always seem to go for the "fluffed" stuff.

[brdmkr]

Dan

I'll get up with you.  I think the next few weeks are opening up for me.  I exhausted my budget on the concrete slab so finishing the shop will have to wait for a little while and I have to send my blades in to be retipped because I found some trash 20 ft up (I need to tell that story sometime, maybe even take a few pics), so I won't be sawing anytime soon.  I also don't think I have any major OT at work until the first week of June.  So, you may be seeing more of me.  I know that makes your day ;D

[Jeff]

Sometimes loading pick ups can be enjoyable. I loaded up a pick up fool of sawdust one time for this smart ass guy. He was peaved becasue he had to wait until after lunch to get loaded and there were 3 others in front of him. when he backed into the ramp I was there waiting for him.  He jumped out and I said might want to pull a head a little. He said just dump it. I said, this bucket is 8 feet wide, a buch is going to go right on top of the cab.  He said I waited long enough, just dump it, it aint going to hurt anything.  I said O.K., what ever you say.


You see, this fellow had one of those sliding moon roofs.  It was open. ;D

[Corley5]

I like the conveyor/elevator idea too.  I'd build a hopper at the bottom of the elevator lengthwise over it to dump into with the tractor bucket.  It'd look sorta like a topsoil screen with out the screen ;)  With a valve of sorts on the hopper you could also use it as a bagger.  I'd store the compost stuff under cover to keep it dry and easier and lighter to load and haul.  You could also build a tractor stop out of a big timber/timbers, guard rail etc that would stop the machine from running into the vehicle in case of brake failure etc.  Build it high enough that whatever you are loading is lower than the top of the stop so the loader won't contact the vehicle either.  For those smaller vehicles whip up a smaller quick attach bucket.  Mr Hootie might even have just what you need ;)  I was talking with hay customer today who suggested a sideline for me which is similar.  I'd never thought about it but with the growing horse population around here there is a demand for barnyard cleanup.  He has been paying $175.00 twice a year for guy to load and haul away the horse by products and drag the yard.  No barn cleaning, just loading the pile that's already been thrown out of the barn.  I see possiblities.  A friend of mine who along with his father has a large dairy herd bought a composter a couple years ago to dispose of their manure.  His market has grown to where there own manure supply isn't enough and to meet demand he's having manure hauled in.  Big business 8) 8)

[ellmoe]

Jeff, Great story!

You see, this fellow had one of those sliding moon roofs. It was open. ;D

Dang,   I believe in the KISS method. I've probably loaded over 5000 truks and trailers over the years with a 5 yard, 8' bucket without a problem (Well, there was that time the "feMALE" customer got upset that a tablespoon of dust blew on her hood...). A conveyor or box or whatever is just another device to cause a problem. What if you or they bumped the box and it collapsed on their truck? As to loading short beds, I just have the customer back up to the pile and let the bucket hang over the back of the truck, dumping the excess bac into in the pile. Another option is the ,"here's a shovel, load it yourself" method. This is for all the DYI ers out there. Bags are a good idea, let them fill the bags themselves when they come. This will save you time, and no complaints about a partially filled bag. Alot of people will have cars and only want a small amount. You can make more profitr per yard by the bag.
   Good luck, it sounds like a good business for you. You seem to be a natural at "spreading the manure around"! ;D

Mark

[woodmills1]

I guess this deceidly low tech but why not build a small dirt ramp for your loader to drive on.  If the machine is just a bit higher the chance of hitting the side is reduced, though this won't fix the spillage idea.  I have seen videos where old timers used a ramp to roll logs up onto trucks.

[DanG]

Lots of good thoughts here....keep'em coming.

I'm leaning towards the idea that brdmkr has, except the chute would be made of sheet metal, which I already have.  Just gotta build it where it can't clog up.

This stuff fluffs up pretty well when you dump it, anyway.  A lot of folks will eyeball the bucket and say, "Let me have 3 scoops."  Then when the first one goes in the truck, they'll say, "Thats enough! "   They really get an appreciation of how much they got when they get home and start unloading it with a shovel. :D :D

The bag idea is great, but it is time consuming.  The attractive part of the whole project is that it doesn't take much time.  The stuff has to be dry for bagging, too, because of the weight.  Also, folks would expect me to load the bags for them, and my back ain't gonna take much of that.

[Engineer]

Used to be a big mushroom farm near me, I'd go up there with various trucks anywhere from a short-bed pickup to a one-ton stake-body dump, and it was always the same - five bucks for them to load it up full, free if I did it myself.  They used a farm tractor and a loader. 

People generally understand that if you're dumping a load of wet smelly in the back of their truck, it's gonna make a mess.    As for bumping the vehicle, carry some insurance and be as careful as possible.  You can't avoid 100% of the casualties unless you don't take on the job.

Last time I went up there, they had closed the farm, still had a huge pile left.  There was a family that must have been renting a house on the property, they were charging five bucks a load if you loaded it yourself with a shovel, the tractor was gone.  The pile didn't last more than a couple of weeks.

[metalspinner]

Loading the bags can be easier if you built a bag holder that would hold about a dozen or more bags open at once.  Then fill the bags with your loader.

I was thinking of a long pit the customer would drive through.  The top of their bed would be at ground level.  But then you would have to worry with the whole thing colapsing

When loading with a fork lift or anything like that, I've always approached the vehicle from the downhill side so I wouldn't accidentallty role into it when releasing the break.

[SwampDonkey]

I here ya Dang on the bag'n and carry'n and sac'n end of it. My poor father would get someone come for a 50 lb bag of taters, which he only charged $6.00 - 10.00 for the choicest tubers, hand selected, from the pile. Some fart would want him to go bag'm by hand, carry the sac to the car, and I bet if they wanted them cooked he'd end up doing that if he lived next door. :D There are some odd balls and lazy 'home soldiers'.  :

[DanG]

Yep, and I do still have a sawmill to run, as well.  I can make several $4 boards in the time it takes to bag a $2 sack of poop. :

I still gotta think on this thing a bit.  The folks that just got out of it run a small wholesale nursery, and they say it was taking up too much of their time.

[Bro. Noble]

I think you are worrying too much about bumping their pickup,  but then you know the people you would be dealing with better than I do.  Seems like if people were willing to put that kind of smelly nasty stuff in their vehicle,  they wouldn't be too awful pidky.

As far as selling packaged stuff,  how about using 5 gal plastic buckets?  Any dairyman accumulates a bunch of them from buying cleaning products and teat dip.  I'm always looking for someone to give some to.  Right now we probably have 50 or 60 to give away.