Bugs, What do I have going on?

whittle1 · November 15, 2020, 06:16:53 PM

So I'm going to attempt to post some photos of some logs that have sawdust coming out of them. These were cut this spring after high winds fell 25+ trees. I want to cut 2x's out of them and some timbers for a future sawmill shed. I'm planning on putting the 2x's in a nyle kiln so I think that should kill any bugs present. Not sure how to deal with the timbers, what do you guys think.

Magicman · November 15, 2020, 06:27:25 PM

They are just doing their job. Saw it, let it dry, and don't be concerned.

Dana Stanley · November 15, 2020, 06:37:01 PM

I know the pine bores I had shut up, after I took the bark off, but they made a mess of some of the sapwood, before I got to them.

Old Greenhorn · November 15, 2020, 07:14:25 PM

Yup, you got pine beetles working, They dig in and lay their eggs, then the larva chew their way out later. Get yourself some solubor and learn how to mix and use it (hot water is the secret for me). Had the same issue a month or so ago and it shut them up. Peeling works if you do it before they really get in there. Some of those logs I milled up had holes big enough to stick my pinky finger in. Once you mill it and see what you have, you can pick the grade stuff for the important uses. The solubor will kill the larva when they start to eat again.

whittle1 · November 15, 2020, 08:34:00 PM

Thanks Old greenhorn. Do you spray the logs or are you spraying each board?

Don P · November 15, 2020, 08:38:53 PM

As much as I like to borate I don't usually mess with softwood. These guys will croak as the wood dries and the kiln will definitely get them. It does help with decay fungi as well so your call. I prefer to roll, spray or dip green from the saw.

Southside · November 15, 2020, 08:53:22 PM

You will probably loose some jacket wood as a result of their activity and might have some blue staining in there, run a heat treat cycle at the end of your kiln run and you won't have any issues. On the up side the jacket boards that are not good enough for dimensional lumber due to holes the bugs have created will likely fetch a premium as accent wood if they are stained, so it might turn out to be a profitable surprise.

moodnacreek · November 16, 2020, 12:39:16 PM

Peeling bark is great right before you saw. But if done too soon in many cases your logs will split. So you dry out the bugs and loose the jacket boards anyhow.

Woodpecker52 · November 16, 2020, 05:20:01 PM

Rule of thumb if you can't saw yellow pines within two weeks, don't cut them. Sawyer beetles and blue stain (rot) will leave you a grand mess and headache. You might have better luck in the fall and winter.

moodnacreek · November 16, 2020, 06:18:19 PM

Quote from: Woodpecker52 on November 16, 2020, 05:20:01 PM
Rule of thumb if you can't saw yellow pines within two weeks, don't cut them. Sawyer beetles and blue stain (rot) will leave you a grand mess and headache. You might have better luck in the fall and winter.

Nobody wants to here this. It is true with all PINE spices . Mills that can cut it one day, saw it the next and then dip it can do what they want.

whittle1 · November 16, 2020, 07:48:29 PM

Good advice, Ideally I would like to fell the trees in the winter especially any that I want to make into timbers. Unfortunately the weather didn't respect my timeline and blew the trees over without consulting me first :D :D.
I'm in the final stages "I hope" of building a barn style house and didn't have time to saw them. If I follow the general consensus the dimension lumber should still be alright after kiln dried and sterilized. What bugs and how do you identify those that continue to infest dry wood? Is the sawyer beetle and pine beetle the same? I googled the sawyer beetle and it looks like when the larvae matures it chews its way out, I guess that's what I heard a few weeks ago when you could hear them gnawing away. I had a standing pine about 15' away and hadn't noticed any problems with it before stacking these logs. Once I noticed it dying it went real fast and I originally thought that was where the gnawing was coming from. I fell and burned it, do you think the logs infected it or the other way around?

Magicman · November 16, 2020, 08:18:28 PM

Quote from: Woodpecker52 on November 16, 2020, 05:20:01 PMRule of thumb if you can't saw yellow pines within two weeks, don't cut them.

I would seriously disagree with that statement.

Some of these SYP logs have been felled over 9 months and true, we are discarding some but the majority are still rock solid.

Underneath the bark many have evidence of Ambrosia Beetles.

But in 4 days of sawing we have sticker stacked 7658 bf of 2X6 & 2X12 framing lumber for the customer's new home. Certainly not a record but it ain't too shabby. My point is that I would hesitate to infer "always" or "never".

PA_Walnut · November 17, 2020, 01:17:16 AM

Quote from: Magicman on November 16, 2020, 08:18:28 PMI would seriously disagree with that statement.

I am with @Magicman --I've had white pine laying for year. Lots of boring action, but doesn't go deep. Cut the slabs(outside) a tad thicker than normal, put lumber up on sticks and no problem.

Not that I would actually ENDORSE leaving pine laying very long, but not a loss if you do.

Good luck!

cutterboy · November 17, 2020, 02:27:21 AM

I stored white pine logs for two months this summer with no problems with pine borers. They were up off the ground about a foot where no grass or brush could touch them.

ellmoe · November 17, 2020, 06:26:22 AM

I routinely saw pine three to nine months old . We feature blue pine , and sell "Wormy " pine . The center is always solid , but sometimes we lose a few outside boards. We have customers that want large timbers , so we save large logs. Now , if your sawing small , plantation pine , your "window of time " is somewhat less.

moodnacreek · November 17, 2020, 07:14:01 AM

Quote from: ellmoe on November 17, 2020, 06:26:22 AM
I routinely saw pine three to nine months old . We feature blue pine , and sell "Wormy " pine . The center is always solid , but sometimes we lose a few outside boards. We have customers that want large timbers , so we save large logs. Now , if your sawing small , plantation pine , your "window of time " is somewhat less.

So do I but that doesn't make it right. In my case it is eastern white pine and if there are high grade jacket boards they will be blue stained and worth little. If they had been winter cut they might be worth as much as the timber inside. Same amount of work, half the money.

whittle1 · November 17, 2020, 08:32:03 AM

Hey Magicman that's a nice looking stack of lumber. Is the customer going to air dry a run thru a kiln? I have so many questions and their seems to be as many different opinions on building with green wood. With modern construction techniques where the frame is sealed up and insulated it seems to me you are asking for trouble. I haven't read on here anyone promoting stick building with green lumber but I know of some in my local area that have. Don't know that they have had a problem but I wouldn't want to do it. Now Timber framing is a different story from what I have read and seen videos on it seems that most prefer working with green timbers. I want to build a timber frame home but wonder if I would have a problem with pitch on the timbers. If the timbers haven't been heated to set the pitch will that be a problem? Are there other ways to minimize or eliminate this with techniques I'm not aware of?
I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments. I have so much to learn on milling and drying lumber and this is a great site to learn from.
Thanks Wayne

Magicman · November 17, 2020, 09:44:45 PM

This will only be air dried which is all that was done with any of the other homes that have been built with framing lumber that I have sawn. It probably won't be closed in/sealed for 6-9 months.

whittle1 · November 18, 2020, 07:32:00 PM

What dimensions do you saw framing lumber? I've been wondering about that and if I would saw to a full 2x6 and then make custom Jambs or saw more to what the current standard is.