Stihl MS 241c-m or MS 261c-m ?

[lamimartin]

i dont understand what you guys mean by a 171 not taking the daily cutting day in and day out. why not?

i own a 180C, would it stand up to that? i have yet to run mine a full day, but i have used it every day for a week about 3hrs at a time. never had any problems.

Components of a light duty saw like 171 or 180 are made for occasional pruning and falling a few trees in a day at most. Medium duty saws are designed for larger production volume for week end and cottage. Professional duty like 241 and 261 are made to withstand constant use all day long day after day, with minimal maintenance.  If a light duty saw is operated as a pro saw, it will fail pretty quickly, causing downtime and cost a fortune of repairs compared to a pro saw.

[lamimartin]

I would go with the 261c since you already have a 171. why limit yourself.

The 171 is not a good backup saw for what he's doing . It won't  take the steady cutting day in out.
Good enough to cut the main saw out of a tree or log if it got pinched or a quick backup if the main saw rocks out it's  chain.
The MS241CM  with Picco chisel chain  will out produce a MS261 in that small timber.
Also perfectly  suited for a newbie  with limited physical  and skill capabilities.

True, thinner chain is faster, but I found out it is not as rugged. I prefer reliability over speed. A thin chain is easier to damage limbing a three for someone who is a beginner.

[HolmenTree]

True Picco 63 may not be as strong a chassis then a .325 but I never broke a loop yet.

[Troymichael]

Lots of decisions to make .. I apreciate all the input from everyone , thank you ..

The rational at the time of buying the MS-171 was it comes with a 2 year warranty, if I run it 8 hrs a day on the weekends, and it rools over on me, I am betting on the warranty covering it. If the warranty is denied, that's another thing to deal with all together


I really want to get the MS-241, like others have said, my trees aren't all that big, and the large ones I will be going around anyway, as I have no problem admitting that is above my skill level.

I noticed my picco chains going dull VERY fast when cutting the dirty stumps, with that said, what other chains can I put on a MS 241-cm ?  and does it need a different bar for that ?

If I can get a chain that stands up to dirt better, for cutting dirty stumps with moss /dirt on them, than I think I am sold, and will order one today ...

[pwheel]

True Picco 63 may not be as strong a chassis then a .325 but I never broke a loop yet.

Agree. Cutters and depth gauges get sharpened down to nothing; that's about it. No different than .325 or .375 pitch. No way you'll damage Picco 63 from cutting wood.

BTW, all chains get dull from cutting dirty stumps; semi-chisel will stay sharper longer compared to full-chisel.

[beenthere]

Troy
Don't think a warranty will cover wear.  just sayin... Failure of parts will likely be covered, and I've found that Stihl has been good with that the one or two times I've needed it. One on a 11 yr old MS361.

And as said, chainsaws are for cutting wood... not dirt be it a stump or sticking the bar in the ground. ;)   
Little to nothing to do with the chain or the bar. 

[Troymichael]

Alright, well i called my dealer and ordered a MS 241-CM.

$529 with 16" bar, i can pick it up friday ! Going up to the land saturday !

[4x4American]

I'm in the 261 camp also. 


I have a Junk-qvarna 346xp NE and I don't see what is so great about it.


Kickback happens, but most times if you are prepared and not running the saw WOT when it is not needed, you can handle it.  Keep your face out of the line of kickback fire.  It is harder to see what you're cutting, and get things perfect, but you only get one face.  And you're cutting with a powersaw, it don't have to be perfect.  Always keep your thumb wrapped around the handlebar.  If you're walking around and the saw is running, it is a good idea to make sure the chainbrake is on.  Before you start cutting, there are five things to check on your powersaw.  Make sure your chaincatcher is in place, look for any loose nuts/bolts, make sure the chain brake works...and well I forgot the other two! 


The 241 is still better than an ax and misery whip so you're light years ahead of the game in that respect.  If you decide to upgrade, a Stihl will hold it's value for a long time granted you keep it in good condition.

[beenthere]

4x4

Kickback happens, but most times if you are prepared and not running the saw WOT when it is not needed, you can handle it.

Interesting, because I've experienced more "kick" or jerk from a chainsaw when it is NOT running wide open throttle.

[4x4American]

Yea but when you get in a situation where your saw kicks back and you are at WOT it is a lot harder to control.  A guy who works for us now has a big scar on his elbow when he had a kickback at WOT.  I am picking up what you're putting down, but it's alot easier to contain a kickback when you're feathering the throttle and not WOT and the poop hits the fan.  Do it how you want that's my 2 cents

[lamimartin]

Lots of decisions to make .. I apreciate all the input from everyone , thank you ..

The rational at the time of buying the MS-171 was it comes with a 2 year warranty, if I run it 8 hrs a day on the weekends, and it rools over on me, I am betting on the warranty covering it. If the warranty is denied, that's another thing to deal with all together


I really want to get the MS-241, like others have said, my trees aren't all that big, and the large ones I will be going around anyway, as I have no problem admitting that is above my skill level.

I noticed my picco chains going dull VERY fast when cutting the dirty stumps, with that said, what other chains can I put on a MS 241-cm ?  and does it need a different bar for that ?

If I can get a chain that stands up to dirt better, for cutting dirty stumps with moss /dirt on them, than I think I am sold, and will order one today ...

I already suggested the Stihl DURO series (carbide tipped) that is designed to withstand quite a bit more dirt than standard chain. It can be sharpened with a proper diameter diamond sharpening bit with a Dremmel tool as long as you respect angles and bit size. It will outlast a regular chain but won't be cutting as fast.  I use them on a 16" bar with my MS261, but I don't know about MS-241 bars. Check with your Stihl Dealer.  It can also be sharpened by pro shops if you don't want to sharpen it yourself. I can't advise for other brands or carbide chains I have not tried, but for the type of wood you have to cut, it would be worth the extra initial cost.  No matter what you choose, the fastest cutting chains will get dull faster too. Just consider how much downtime you spend on changing chains and sharpening in the equation.  A slightly faster cut is not worth the trouble unless you have very clean logs. Keep in mind that a dull chain is a dangerous chain. The longer your chain remains sharp, the longer and the safer your loggin day. For that reason, It is a good practice to refresh the cut regularly rather than wait until your chain is dull. Personnaly, I swap carb tipped chains that are getting dull and make the sharpening at home. I rarely have to change a carbide tipped chain in a full day of work.

[Troymichael]

Lots of decisions to make .. I apreciate all the input from everyone , thank you ..

The rational at the time of buying the MS-171 was it comes with a 2 year warranty, if I run it 8 hrs a day on the weekends, and it rools over on me, I am betting on the warranty covering it. If the warranty is denied, that's another thing to deal with all together


I really want to get the MS-241, like others have said, my trees aren't all that big, and the large ones I will be going around anyway, as I have no problem admitting that is above my skill level.

I noticed my picco chains going dull VERY fast when cutting the dirty stumps, with that said, what other chains can I put on a MS 241-cm ?  and does it need a different bar for that ?

If I can get a chain that stands up to dirt better, for cutting dirty stumps with moss /dirt on them, than I think I am sold, and will order one today ...

I already suggested the Stihl DURO series (carbide tipped) that is designed to withstand quite a bit more dirt than standard chain. It can be sharpened with a proper diameter diamond sharpening bit with a Dremmel tool as long as you respect angles and bit size. It will outlast a regular chain but won't be cutting as fast.  I use them on a 16" bar with my MS261, but I don't know about MS-241 bars. Check with your Stihl Dealer.  It can also be sharpened by pro shops if you don't want to sharpen it yourself. I can't advise for other brands or carbide chains I have not tried, but for the type of wood you have to cut, it would be worth the extra initial cost.  No matter what you choose, the fastest cutting chains will get dull faster too. Just consider how much downtime you spend on changing chains and sharpening in the equation.  A slightly faster cut is not worth the trouble unless you have very clean logs. Keep in mind that a dull chain is a dangerous chain. The longer your chain remains sharp, the longer and the safer your loggin day. For that reason, It is a good practice to refresh the cut regularly rather than wait until your chain is dull. Personnaly, I swap carb tipped chains that are getting dull and make the sharpening at home. I rarely have to change a carbide tipped chain in a full day of work.

Thank you. I will see if my stihl dealer has one, otherwise i will order one.

[kensfarm]

The last two pictures showed what I cut with the Stihl MS 171 two weeks ago, took me a good 6 hours of cutting

Take the time to take a training course..  that pile should have only taken a minute or 2 to buck up. 

[HolmenTree]

Troymicheal probably meant 6 hours for felling, limbing, bucking and throwing  into a pile.
Not fast for most standards but for a green horn he's  doing alright.

[HolmenTree]

This is for Troymichael a nice little video of the excellent saw you chosen....congratulations.

BTW I was at the local Stihl dealer today and on display was the MS241/ 261performance kit which comprised of 3 - 63PS 16" chain loops and a 7 tooth mini spline Picco rim  sprocket, I think there was a 16" bar inside the package too. All for $99.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zXscYA8tu48

[lamimartin]

"63PSis part of the Stihl Picco Super series. 63PS is a fast cutting chisel chain which work best in clean cutting conditions, where there is limited contact with dirt and other abrasive materials. This chain has no significant kickback reduction features (See warnings below), and is recommended for professional use only."

I understand that a professional is looking for ultimate cutting speed, but our friend Troymichael primary concern is the fact chains gets dull pretty quick in dirty conditions.  No kickback reduction is not recommended for a beginner. I don't think this is the ideal chain for Troymichael.

I would rather consider http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/specialty-saw-chains/pd3/ :
Applications: The PD3 is ideally suited for cutting dirty wood, treated wood, roots, hardwoods – even cement-encrusted formwork boards on jobsites.
This chain is low profile, low kickback and is ideally suited for Troymicheal in my humble opinion.  It may not be the fastest, but it is very fast, hours after hour after hour of reliable and safe operation.

I've experienced Stihl duro carbide tipped chains and I can tell you it is by far my favorite to work on fallen trees that are often contaminated with dirt, even if I try to avoid dirt on wood as much as I can. This is certainly not the least expensive option (what professional are often looking for too) but for a green operator that wants the job done with minimal maintenance and maximal safety margin, this is the best chain.

[HolmenTree]

lamimartin,
As we're  both Canadians we know how ANSI liabilty paranoia is south of the border. Here in Canada Stihl dealers sell professional chain to all woodcutters whether  their pros or green horns.
The Picco chain in itself is a low kickback safety chain whether  its got extra safety ramps or not.
Yes the Picco Duro carbide chain is a tough chain. I used it on my Stihl 066 Alaskan mill ripping treated cedar power poles. But for cutting green wood it's  slow and tough to sharpen.
Seeing  the clean stand of timber Troymicheal has he doesn't  need it. His problem is cutting his stumps too low and cutting  into the dirt when bucking.
The only way he can properly learn to use and maintain  a chainsaw is using a regular chain. Even the carbide chain carelessly cutting into a granite hard rock will destroy it's  sharp edge.
I  guarantee  you in the U.S. he won't  be able to buy the 63PS  chisel Picco us Canadians  enjoy . He'll  get the 63PS3 which is still a very performing chain in 16".

[HolmenTree]

To add to my last post I suggest  Troymicheal use the Picco Duro chain to cut his stumps off low after clearing his trees.

[beenthere]

HolmenTree said it very well, IMO. The safety chain idea is 99% hype by our Gov't meddlers. It is a bit like putting training wheels on a bicycle for an adult.

Just my opinion but glad to see it shared with others.  ;D

[Troymichael]

To add to my last post I suggest  Troymicheal use the Picco Duro chain to cut his stumps off low after clearing his trees.

Alright thanks, so use the ps3 for cutting, then switch to the duro for the dirty stumps. Sounds easy enough.

[4x4American]

ok now they have you going from top to bottom.  you dont wanna be switching chains all day.  Just get a semi chisel chain.  best of both worlds.  stays sharper longer than chisel chain, and easier to sharpen.  For you, this is the general purpose chain thatll gitter done.  From the picture of the tooth in my stigl catalog, it looks like stihl RM is a semi chisel chain for ya.  Thy have it in .325" not sure what youre setup for.

[HolmenTree]

ok now they have you going from top to bottom.  you dont wanna be switching chains all day.   

No no.......I was saying at the end of the day or week whatever, after doing your production cutting with the Picco chisel chain , switch over to the Picco Duro carbide chain and cut all your stumps off low.
Best to fell your trees with a 18"-20" inch high stump then later on when that is cut near ground level you have an additional  block of   firewood.

[4x4American]

Ahh icic.  Yea having a carbide chain is good, but who's gonna sharpen it?  It says that you need a diamond grind wheel to sharpen them in the catalog.  I have no experience sharping carbide saw chain so I'm not sure how it goes.  I'm guessing they don't have a special file?

[CR888]

The 171 is not a good backup saw for what he's doing . It won't  take the steady cutting day in out.
Good enough to cut the main saw out of a tree or log if it got pinched or a quick backup if the main saw rocks out it's  chain.
The MS241CM  with Picco chisel chain  will out produce a MS261 in that small timber.
Also perfectly  suited for a newbie  with limited physical  and skill capabilities.
[/quote]
Good post and very true. I have a 241cm and ms261 and 550xp. Under the main conditions the op has shown the 241 will out perform the other two in that sized wood. The 241 is so good on fuel it will get more work done than the other two saws and is a perfect saw to learn skills. I would also say that a Stihl light weight bar is worth the few extra Penny's. They really keep those saws light. FWIW l have my 241 set up with .325 and only run semi chisel. Full chisel is not an option for us in Australia, you can buy it if you look hard enough but it dulls far too quick. Carbide IMO has more negatives than positive mainly cost but its tough to sharpen and if you hit a nail or something it becomes a nightmare. Good semi chisel or chipper style cutters work best and make the best sense in my conditions however the op could run PS all day and it make sense in his conditions.

[gspren]

  This thread has me thinking and that usually costs me some coin but hey that's what it's for. I cut all of my firewood for a lot of years using my 044 with a 20" bar and my old 041 for a back up, about the time I turned 60 I got a 261 for the small stuff. Now I use the 261 for 90% of my cutting and keep a 24" bar on the 044 for rare big stuff and thinking these old shoulders might like the 241. Just thinking. ???