Gearmatic

[longtime lurker]

Would anyone happen to know the specs for brake band lining thickness on a gearmatic 19/119.?

I can't get the thing to hold.  New buckets and pistons in the brake and clutch. Bled it, bled it ,bled it some more - I'm happy that it's bled properly.
Brake and clutch bands are clean, there was some oil about but I dealt with that.
Master control is fine, new buckets and lines there too.
Machined down a ¼" thick spacer plate for the spring cap to increase brake spring tension. No difference at all. I've overhauled enough gearmatic winches over the years I'm confident that it's not an assembly issue or anything like that.

Only thing left to try is new brake bands and I'm not going to get those off a shelf around here so I'm thinking of relining them, probably with oil resistant linings. Just wondering if anyone had a set.lting around they could drop a tape on, I'd like to know what the original specs for lining thickness were.

Thanks in advance
John

[C5C Tree Farmer]

Back when I got my C5C Tree Farmer in '96 the winch brake would not hold. It would winch in fine but release the handle and the wood would fall to the ground. I had it apart numerous times and could not see what the problem was. I finally assembled it without the cover and went and cut a skid of wood to see what was going on. 
So the problem with mine was when the narrow outer brake band wrapped CCW the upper band anchor hit the pin boss just above it on the case. This limited the amount of torque applied to the wide inner band where the braking is actually done. It would partially apply but not wrap tight.
So I popped the outer band and notched the offending anchor with a torch. Went and cut another skid and the brake worked perfect. Put the cover back on and went back to cuttin'. That was the last of my winch brake problems. Those bands are still in there.

[Ed_K]

 I got some 5/16"s linings and ended up using a rasp to file them down to just over 1/4"s if you can get a 6 mm type I think it'll be better.

 ps. I have the book but chemo brain won't let me find it  ;D .

[Plankton]

I don't have brand new bands but only used for a couple hitches then brake cylinder blew out on me 🙄🙄

I can measure those on Saturday for you they shouldn't be too worn I would think.

Not sure where your located since I'm on mobile but you could call pb&h in New hampshire they stock the bands and are good people so they would probably measure a set.

[Plankton]

I also had the same problem with all new rebuilt stuff and endless bleeding etc. Only thing that fixed it was new bands. I also replaced my spring on the brake rod at the same time so that could have been it but my old spring was about the same stiffness feeling.

[C5C Tree Farmer]

On the 19's once the free spool action is obtained on the brake release handle there is no further need of bleeding. The hydraulic side of the brake has nothing to do with whether the brake holds or not. It's only function is to provide free spool.  

So the brake bands are under constant spring tension. When winching forward the bands compress the spring which allows the drum  to rotate CW. When the load on the drum pulls CCW the spring loaded bands do a self energized wrap and lock the drum in place.

When I had trouble with mine everything under the winch cover looked like it should work. What I didn't realize is that the position of narrow band under spring tension and it's position under an actual load are different. The difference in travel caused that long tapered band anchor to hit the pin boss that's located directly above it. Once I modified the shape of the band anchor for clearance I had a functioning brake. It's worked good for 25 years (knock on wood!)

[Plankton]

Really good info! My bands were too worn out and glazed to do any good so new ones were the fix but it isn't holding as good as it has I'm going to take a look at my winch and see if I'm running into the same issue.

[C5C Tree Farmer]

So when you pop the cover on your winch check the condition of the brake drum surface. To have a good brake the surface should be rust free cast iron. Polished rust scale won't cut it. I spent a fair amount of time hand sanding the drum on mine.

A thin layer of chassis grease on the winch cover mating surfaces helps keep the water out.

[Ed_K]

So when you pop the cover on your winch check the condition of the brake drum surface. To have a good brake the surface should be rust free cast iron. Polished rust scale won't cut it. I spent a fair amount of time hand sanding the drum on mine.

A thin layer of chassis grease on the winch cover mating surfaces helps keep the water out.

The grease on the cover is a great idea just don't put more than a smeer on it.
 Plankton, if the winch holds but slips as your going along, let some out and slip it back in kinda holding the lever to slip it. Mine does it if I haven't used it in awhile. Like this coming week we're going to cut some w/ pine and I know it'll be slipping first few hitches.

[longtime lurker]

Thanks all for the input. Being located in Australia the nearest new set of brake bands are probably in the U.S. Normally that's not as much an issue as it sounds but current freight times are horrendous.

I've played about with these things for years and I'm confident that everything else is fine, pins are seated well, brake cylinder had a kit and is doing what its supposed to. This one had a new spring a couple years back during a major overhaul, it could be that but I inserted a couple of washers into the spring cap to increase tension and it still wont hold any load so I'm leaning towards worn bands. She's pulled a lot of upper limit of capacity sized logs... nothing lasts forever.

At the moment I can drag cable off the spool by hand - I'm working for it but it should be locked up tight. Hooked onto an immovable object and tried to run the bands in but if anything it was worse hot so yeah... just about has to be the bands.

If I'm going to replace - and it's looking like thats the only thing left it could be - relining with the oil resistant ones sounds a lot smarter than going with the old style or at least an option worth pricing. Going that way knowing new spec would be useful.

Again, thanks all for taking the time to respond.

[Ed_K]

 Mine were between 1/8 and 3/16 when I peeled them off. They just wouldn't hold anymore.

[Plankton]

Mine were down about to edks when they wouldn't hold as well. I will still measure my pretty much new bands Saturday hopefully it will help.

[C5C Tree Farmer]

At the moment I can drag cable off the spool by hand - I'm working for it but it should be locked up tight. 

It's unusual that you would be able to do that. It tells me that the narrow brake band under spring tension is not gripping the drum. With the winch control handle in neutral do the ends of the narrow brake band touch? If they are trim the ends back with a grinder and retry it.