Lesson on knowing your property lines

[JBlain]

Interesting story.  Over 100,000 replacement cost as damages for one walnut seems a bit high to me.

https://www.pennlive.com/nation-world/2022/01/siblings-charged-after-cutting-down-100-year-old-tree-worth-28k-dispute-claim-it-belonged-to-ohio-park.html

[Jeff]

Not at all. Try and put it back for less.

[BradMarks]

Most states have triple stumpage value for timber trespassing as a minimum damage assessment.

[Jeff]

When you get into landscape values, it can get expensive.

[IndiLina]

Had a survey done on a property that hadn't been surveyed in many decades.   
A new neighbor moved in to a property next to mine. I sent a copy of the survey to the neighbor telling them I'd like to avoid problems in the future by making the line clear now.   
The thing is, the corner of his house crosses over my property line. He was hoping to put a few Airbnbs up on the place, and his whole plan is dead because he didn't verify the boundary markers before buying. 

[Jeff]

Ive started the process of identifying mine. I dont have thousands for a survey, so ill do it the harder way.
Finding, defining, and reclaiming my u.p. property line using clues from the past. - YouTube

[chevytaHOE5674]

We are lucky to have a good local surveyor who is very reasonably priced. In the last 4 years I've had over 6 miles of lines flagged, rebar at the corners, map provided and registered at the courthouse for less than 2k dollars total. And if there's every a question hes the registered professional that will answer them. Best money I've spent because I don't have to worry about moving fences or neighborly disputes.

[JBlain]

In PA if you cut across lines its 3x stumpage value.  I think if you tried to push higher than that it would be reduced as the state law is meant to streamline, keep the lawyers away, and deter tresspass.  I know folks who have tried to get crazy values when they have had an eminent domain taking and took it to court and it was to a reduced but high amount per tree.  

About 10 years ago a forester friend of mine was getting ready to go mark a sale on an absentee landowners tract and 100 acres were completely smoked.  Never caught the thief.  The landowner hadn't been to the property in about 15 years.  

[Hogdaddy]

Interesting story.  Over 100,000 replacement cost as damages for one walnut seems a bit high to me.

https://www.pennlive.com/nation-world/2022/01/siblings-charged-after-cutting-down-100-year-old-tree-worth-28k-dispute-claim-it-belonged-to-ohio-park.html
Quite high if you ask me. If it 3 times what its worth then around $30,000 plus added damages to surrounding area= 45 to 50k should be plenty. But in this day and time nothing surprises me.

[livemusic]

I don't understand replacement estimate. The tree is impossible to replace. I mean, how many 5.5ft DBH walnuts are nearby? And then if you found one, surely you could not transplant a tree that big.

[DMcCoy]

Yeah but it's landscape not forestry and it isn't replaceable.  They took something that didn't belong to them basically.  Yeah, that is a ton of money and I doubt insurance will cover it.  yikes!
My college prof. was called in as an expert for a renter who allowed the power company to cut a tree down that wasn't even on the land he was renting. Double opps!  Location(roots and trunk in gravel driveway), rot caused by previous vehicle impacts, and a lot of limbs in powerlines.
Wanted $40k(total tree plus lawyers) dropped it down to under 6-8k 'IF' I remember correctly, this was 40 yrs ago.  It stuck because the numbers were so absurd.

[OH logger]

Better make sure that is says in contract "you own the tRees your sellin me"

[OH logger]

Looks like it had metal in it. Shows up blue in the StuMp

Prolly should only have to pay $99,000. 😂

[stavebuyer]

Much like some of the other show trials in the news lately the "persecutor" means to make an example these folks for something that generally would qualify as a civil matter regarding a boundary dispute.

I also noted the blue and seriously doubt a tree within 7 feet of a dilapidated houses lot line was such an irreplaceable treasure to value it at six figures.

[Jeff]

What if it had been planted by someone historically notable in a historic spot, or was the spot of  some sort of important event. Would it then be worth more do you think?

100 Year Old Compton Oak Move Successful in League City - YouTube

[stavebuyer]

Yes, but nothing was noted in the article to make it "special". They didn't decide to prosecute the logger or buyers of the lumber so perhaps the boundary was not very obvious. This was the adjoining property owner who claims he thought he owned the tree and maybe he does. I have seen more than one government line zig zag with paint to take in some good trees.

[rusticretreater]

The article stated that the purchasers of the logs have a signed attestation that the brother and sister were the owners of the tree and could legally sell it to them.  That's all the purchasers were legally required to do.

A historic tree is possibly worth more if marketed correctly.  There is another thread on this forum where a nationally noted historic tree in Arlington Virginia was harvested at the end of its life and how the seller planned to market the wood.

There were some 200+ year old trees on the grounds of the National Observatory(Vice Presidents Home) that were cut down not too long ago.  One of the trees went to make a new mast for the USS Constitution.

When the 460 year old Wye Oak in Maryland fell, the wood was used for a variety of projects including making a new desk for the Governor of Maryland.  Craftsman were able to get some of the wood.  The tree was cloned and two saplings from the project were planted at Mount Vernon. 31 feet in circumference at breast height.  They said a branch weighed over 70,000 pounds. 

[Peter Drouin]

Thanks boss, Nice video. 

[SwampDonkey]

Probably the line was never marked in years. I'm surprised that the park lines were not marked. Up here crown land is all marked and mill ground to. It's the private woodlots that never get marked or surveyed until it's about to be cut, or been cut. Trouble with becoming your own surveyor and not being registered, you are easily challenged with no standing. There were some recent private woodlot sales up here by the local mill and lines where promptly surveyed before they pushed a road in. We hired a surveyor a few years ago to survey 450 acres, was $750. I can't imagine being several thousand dollars for one day of field work with an axe man and the surveyor. Time of year definitely helps with production.

[Corley5]

Surveys are expensive here.  But having it done by a registered firm and filed at the courthouse is worth it.  Laws of existing fence, adverse possession can come into play but require legal fees to get them through.

[Jeff]

Hey @Corley5 ! Wanna come run anudder yooper line?  ;)

[Corley5]

Sure 8)  That was an adventure.  The compass doesn't lie ;) ;D   

[beenthere]

Surveys are expensive here.  But having it done by a registered firm and filed at the courthouse is worth it.  Laws of existing fence, adverse possession can come into play but require legal fees to get them through.

Works fine until the next "Registered Surveyor" is hired to survey adjoining properties and finds a different placement for a corner (or two).
Question which corner to use by the landowner or for the next time around? 
Surveyors do not take each other to court. One of the landowners must pay the courts to have the lawyers and surveyors straighten out which surveyor was wrong/right (if either one was right). 

[Corley5]

We had that issue and the 2nd surveyor wouldn't register his survey so the first one stood.  Consider it professional courtesy.  Taking it to court and finding a third surveyor to check the work of the previous two... and an attorney.  We figure we lost a 1/4 of an acre.

[Gary_C]

I cut a timber sale on MN state land where there was a US Geological Survey Monument and then there was a new MN DNR survey marker for the same corner about 30 feet straight east of the USGS monument. I know the MN DNR has the latest GPS survey equipment but does their survey supersede the USGS Monument?

It did not make any difference there as it was all state forest land plus it was on top of the bluff about 300 feet over the Mississippi River and within 100 feet of the edge of the bluff. But how does that translate to other property lines off that same corner?

Confucius say "A man with one watch always knows what time it is but a man with two watches is never quite sure."