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Building a kiln in a 40 foot container

Started by Danskbraendesalg, September 19, 2010, 05:07:10 PM

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Danskbraendesalg

Hi Guys

First of all, i apologize if my english is bad. I am from Denmark, Europe and english is not my first language.

I am just starting to produce firewood. I got a nice swedish processor and now i would also like to build a kiln. Since i do not have $50.000, i am trying to build it on my own, in a 40 foot reefer container.
I searched the internet for a "turnkey" solution to build into the container, without luck.

Here are some ideas: since i have plenty of sawdust and firewood, i would like the container to be heated from the sawdust. That would also solve another problem; i have limeted electricity (3 phases, 25 amp) - and it would cost a lot to upgrade it.

I also have a lot of wood waste, that could be used. However i do not live close to where i work, so it needs to be able to "run by itselve" for minimum 16 hours.

As i understand it, it is a lot faster to dry the would if temperature is higher than 100 degress celsius (water boils at 100 degress celsius - i don't remember the farenheit scale anymore), but that is difficult, if i use hot water. Perhaps hot air can be used?

If i need to use the water, i know i need some big scale ventilators (Fans?) - they need to be able to resist the high temperature and humidity. How much air does such ventilators need to move per hour? And how many ventilators?

I saw an example where they used 4 fans - 2 in each end of the container - all blowing towards the middle. That cant be the best way?

So guys, i hope someone can educate me a little bit, so i can build this container - as efficient and cheap as possible :-)

Best regards,
Tommy
www.danskbraendesalg.dk

Okrafarmer

It sounds like a good idea to use a big container like that-- I have heard of people using the large shipping containers to make kilns. It can be done. I have never done it though-- I hope somebody here with more experience can help you.

Welcome to this forum! We love to have people from all nations represented here.

Jim
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

serg


Welcome to the forum Danskbraendesal!
In the container can be dried firewood. To do this you need to create a 100% sealed container, heated basalt wool, apply high temperature rubber, buy a boiler coolant oil Shell, expensive, high-temperature circulating pump. Fans do not need, because you can use the natural circulation. Celsius high 135. You need a specialist. No recommendation is dangerous.
Sergey.





scsmith42

Hello Tommy.  Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

I have a kiln that is built from a 45' cargo container; I use it primarily to dry furniture grade oak boards with a dehumidification type kiln (Nyle).

it is doable; the biggest drawback is the limited access into your kiln chamber (through an 8' wide door).  I have a track inside mine that extends outside, so I can load the wood on carts and then use a winch to pull them inside.

One other problem is that the insulation used in the walls of most reefer vans starts breaking down around 160 - 175F.  You would need to install some additional insulation inside the reefer van that would keep most of the heat inside and not bake the factory insulation.  I use a product called "Tekfoil" in mine; it is very effective.

Regards,

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

jim king

Many years ago before I had everything stored on my computor I was thinking of building a container kiln for Balsa Wood.  At that time I had plans which were very simple but cannot find them now.

It was nothing but a 40 foot container painted black on the outside and with a woodburning home furnace blowing the hot dry air in.  It had 4 roof vents to open manually to let the humidity out and 4 moisture proof motors and fans to install inside the kiln with a baffel to direct the air.

As you are not worried a about defect free board this seems like it would be ideal for you.  All the heat and air velocity you can get and let her go.  No wet/dry bulbs controls or anything.  Who cares if the fire wood splits or twists.

Danskbraendesalg

Quote from: Okrafarmer on September 19, 2010, 09:49:42 PM

Welcome to this forum! We love to have people from all nations represented here.

Jim

Thanks a lot :-)
BR Tommy

Danskbraendesalg

Quote from: scsmith42 on September 20, 2010, 11:36:59 AM
Hello Tommy.  Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

I have a kiln that is built from a 45' cargo container; I use it primarily to dry furniture grade oak boards with a dehumidification type kiln (Nyle).

it is doable; the biggest drawback is the limited access into your kiln chamber (through an 8' wide door).  I have a track inside mine that extends outside, so I can load the wood on carts and then use a winch to pull them inside.

One other problem is that the insulation used in the walls of most reefer vans starts breaking down around 160 - 175F.  You would need to install some additional insulation inside the reefer van that would keep most of the heat inside and not bake the factory insulation.  I use a product called "Tekfoil" in mine; it is very effective.

Regards,

Scott

Hi Scott

The access to the chamber is not a problem. I have some palletsize baskets with wheels :-) I plan to split the wood directly into those baskets and roll it directly into the kiln :-)
The container i have is a shipping container, not from a van. Perhaps the isolation material is better? I hope so.
Could you perhaps describe your setup? Is it heated by water or air? What kind of ventilation do you have? I how long time does it take to dry green wood to... dry (%??)
Perhaps link to supplier of parts?
BR Tommy

scsmith42

Quote from: Danskbraendesalg on September 21, 2010, 01:37:41 PM
Quote from: scsmith42 on September 20, 2010, 11:36:59 AM
Hello Tommy.  Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

I have a kiln that is built from a 45' cargo container; I use it primarily to dry furniture grade oak boards with a dehumidification type kiln (Nyle).

it is doable; the biggest drawback is the limited access into your kiln chamber (through an 8' wide door).  I have a track inside mine that extends outside, so I can load the wood on carts and then use a winch to pull them inside.

One other problem is that the insulation used in the walls of most reefer vans starts breaking down around 160 - 175F.  You would need to install some additional insulation inside the reefer van that would keep most of the heat inside and not bake the factory insulation.  I use a product called "Tekfoil" in mine; it is very effective.

Regards,

Scott

Hi Scott

The access to the chamber is not a problem. I have some palletsize baskets with wheels :-) I plan to split the wood directly into those baskets and roll it directly into the kiln :-)
The container i have is a shipping container, not from a van. Perhaps the isolation material is better? I hope so.
Could you perhaps describe your setup? Is it heated by water or air? What kind of ventilation do you have? I how long time does it take to dry green wood to... dry (%??)
Perhaps link to supplier of parts?
BR Tommy

Hi Tommy.

Unfortunately, I think that the insulation temperature problem is the same for both the reefer and insulated containers.

My kiln is heated by a Nyle L200 / Woodmizer 4000 Dehumidifier, which is an all-electric unit.  This is a low temperature system for drying furniture grade boards (4/4 - 8/4 thickness).  Typically I dry in the 90F - 135F range; occasionally heating up to 165F for setting the pitch on pine.

For the most part, I do not ventilate when drying lumber; only if the temperature become too hot.  The objective is to have the dehumidification unit remove all of the water and thus provide control over the drying process. 

My system is not designed for drying firewood; I think that you'd be better off with a higher temperature steam based system.  I'm not sure to who refer you to, but perhaps Don Lewis, Den or Sergy will chime in with some recommendations.

Regards,

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Danskbraendesalg

Thank you, i already contacted Nyle - and i am writing with Don :-)
BR Tommy

kilndirect

Full disclosure - We manufacturer firewood kiln (plus pallet and lumber kilns)

Here is some information that might be useful:
Drying times in a test environment at different temperatures by Forest Products Laboratory:
link: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn254.pdf

Our estimate for energy needs to dry a cord of firewood from green to well seasoned (1200 lbs loss of water):
link: www.kiln-direct.com/firewoodenergy

Comment in regards to heat treating against EAB (Emerald Ash Borer) in US:
You will need to reach 160F inside the firewood which in our experience will require a heat source that can get the kiln chamber to at least 190-200F.
As per the document above getting even higher 220F makes it faster. We try to reach 250-260F in our firewood kiln to achieve 220F in the coldest spot.

Last comment when not having to reach EAB treatment temperature:
Temperature and humidity with adequate airflow will dry firewood. Again see document above just remember that was in a test/laboratory environment.

I hope this helps anyone designing a home-made firewood kiln.

KellyH

I read the other day about a simple DO-IT-YOURSELF stove system called a "RocketStove".  It uses a very small amount of wood because of the design.  It gets much more energy out of the wood by having a long burner box and extended flue and stove pipe.  The article spoke about being a clean burning energy efficient way to heat a persons home or shop.  Seems like it could be adapted for a kiln.  I googled "rocketstove" and many options came up for review.

If this helps out great1  Remember to post some pictures.  8)
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is who you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are."

kilndirect

This is Kiln-direct.

I just thought I would post some information about the solution danskbraendesalg ended up installing.

A few month ago we completed the installation of an Export version of the MiniQuick firewood kiln for danskbraendesalg.

Here is a link to information about this solution: www.kiln-direct.com/exportminiquickfirewoodkiln

Have a good day,

Niels
Kiln-direct.com

tyb525

Niels, Welcome to the forum. I've seen your ads in the Sawmill & woodlot magazine before, good to see you on the forum.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

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