Cease and desist from the county

[RussMaGuss]

Got a notice of violation today from the county. I've got 2 weeks to move all my stuff. Apparently a neighbor, instead of talking to me or leaving a note in my mailbox or something, decided to complain straight to the county. I'm in unincorporated area on 3/4 acre and my next door neighbor stores all his company equipment there, including a skid steer, trailers and construction materials. I was told I cannot have my skid steer, log pile (I have all of 5 logs at the moment) and air drying stacks (3 stacks right now) anywhere on my property. He said that operating a sawmill violates codes 37-703.1 37-403.5 and 37-700.8.D  . I'm absolutely dumbfounded. I bought this property 2 yrs ago in unincorporated because I thought it wouldn't be a problem.. I have a lead on renting a space nearby, but I'm not making nearly enough money on the wood business yet to justify renting. I guess this is more of me venting than looking for advice, but if anyone has any words of wisdom I'm all ears!   Any of you guys ever have run-ins with the county telling you to shut down your operations? 

[sawguy21]

That really sucks but not unheard of. Too bad you hadn't checked into it before buying the property. A friend ran into a similar problem. He wanted to put up a garage for his logging truck, municipal bylaws will allow a shelter but not a fully enclosed building.

[Nebraska]

Why can't you have a skid steer?? Its obviously  a service  machine to help you with anxiety as is the sawmill....(why not I've seen ponys and chickens claimed as such)
Sounds like you need to get farther out. Like Howard said in another thread "if you can't pee off of your porch"........

[mike_belben]

Go to the county clerk and make buddies with the nice old ladies as fast as you can.  'Hey friends,  i got this letter, i dont know whats up but i wanted to get a business license and whatever i have to do to get right with you.' and go from there. Remember your yes sirs and ma'ams and oh youre grandaughter is a darling!


My guess is the cost to buy the county off will be far less than rent and commute and theft etc etc.  

[JJ]

unincorporated, but sounds like you need a permit or exemption $ to grease the local wheels.
it is far worse overseas.

         JJ

[JJ]

Looking these up 37-700.8 in IL, is about junkyard; maybe tidy place up and hide from road any rusted stuff. 

I suggest a appeal to 37-403.5 based on your neighbor's practice.  It maybe somebody objects to your neighbor, and has transferred this onto you - maybe discuss with your neighbor to find out who.

37-703.1 is about outbuilding construction, are you in code -if not appeal to local board.

Sounds like a NIBY sounding off, but this is only first notice to you..  appeal and you may be able to continue until appeal is heard.

BTW, I have no law background, so these are only my opinions, and are worth about the amount you paid.

        JJ

[Don P]

Ag is often exempt from much of this stuff, silviculture is ag however trying to claim ag on 3/4 acre is a real stretch. I'd have to agree, you need to be further out and look for a 4 star location, I can pee on any side of the house.

[dgdrls]

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles,   unfortunately unincorporated doesn't mean un-zoned,

You need to know exactly what those two codes (37-703.1 37-403.5 and 37-700.8.D) include before you
do anything.  

Let us know,

Good luck

D

[scsmith42]

Find the local lawyer that is the most connected in the county, and talk with him/her.

The right attorney can achieve results that you cannot (representing yourself).  It is $ well spent.

Most of the time all that the attorney needs to do is either make a phone call or write a letter.

[KEC]

I would second the motion to call an attorney ASAP.

[Southside]

For sure find a bulldog attorney.  Seems every level of government has pushed their boundaries with everything that has happened this year.  Often these types can't back up their position and will fold when challenged.  Our local County tried to pull something earlier this summer with us.  

When I told the visitor that I would not answer her questions and informed her that clearly she was violating my curtilidge, since she took it upon herself to just mosy into my back yard, which created a 4th Amendment issue along with her insistence that I answer her questions, 5th Amendment, and that the fact they had chosen to single me out, 14th Amendment, she shut down instantly and didn't know what to say.  I didn't even have to tell them to leave, she just stared at the ground and turned around and left.  It is prudent to know the law and your rights, then never give an inch as that becomes a slippery slope.   

To me there is no due-process happening here and you are guaranteed that, 5th and 14th Amendment say so.     

[mike_belben]

My experience is that you dont need a bulldog attorney so much as one who is friends with the judge who will likely hear your case.  Every jurisdiction has a buddy buddy arrangement of some sort.  The low level courtroom staff will know who, the challenge is getting them to give names.  None can give legal advice but they could answer something like, "which attorney would you personally hire if blank?"  Most courts have an assistance hotline that has worked well for me at getting a talkative staff member.

[Southside]

Funny - my experience with small town pizza attorneys has been that I get a bill for the fact they tried, but got nothing done, then you read the line items and see they are billing you for the time it took to generate the bill.   :

[RussMaGuss]

I think I will take the advice and at the very least consult with a lawyer. 

What grinds my gears is that my frontage is lined with thick bushes and you can't see squat if you're going 25mph down the street even! The only things close to where the drive meets the road are 2 stacks of lumber and the 5-6 logs. The only "junk or debris" is the toolbox off my old pickup truck that's off to the side out of view. I think if this gets sorted out and I can stay here, I'm gonna put a big gate in the drive so people can't even see down it. That will add security, and then nobody could even complain about the horrible horrible eye sore logs are!  

What cracks me up is the guy said I'm allowed to split and store my own firewood, so when he told me I had to move the logs I asked him politely how I would split firewood without logs---dead silence, followed by "just call so-and-so in the office" lol

I really appreciate all the advice! I'm thinking if I move the logs and board stacks out of view from the street I may just be alright

[charles mann]

Had a similar run in with the tx ag commission. A guy rolls ups, gets out and demands i put my dogs up so they dont bite him. I asked his business, then told him to get back in truck if he scared. The guy attempted to force me to become a state approved and authorized feral hog holding facility, even though i didnt meet a single criteria of being a holding facility and was told id have to move my pen because i was to close to domestic swine operations (seasonal 4h raising), even though i was established 3 yrs prior to the neighbors starting the 4h raising.  Becoming approved and authorized allows for the state to just pop in for inspection, unannounced, even if im not home, and gives them the authority to do a walk-about on any portion of my property. 
I ended up having to speak to his supervisor and after a few choice words and some promises, not threats, i was told no need to worry and have a good day, sorry for the misunderstanding. 
I held my ground, explained the consequences of their over reaching actions and have not had any other drop by visitors in the past 4 years.
I do live far enough out i can p off my front porch, just cant run around in my birthday suit outside during the day, only after dark.  

[Southside]

It's not a sawmill, it's a narrow kerf, green energy, prototype wood splitter that aids with maintaining social distancing via the use of longer raw firewood (logs).  The County really should be giving you some of their CARES money to help develop this technology since it will help others within their taxable reach.  

[charles mann]

It's not a sawmill, it's a narrow kerf, green energy, prototype wood splitter that aids with maintaining social distancing via the use of longer raw firewood (logs).  The County really should be giving you some of their CARES money to help develop this technology since it will help others within their taxable reach.  

That sir is 1 heck of a validation for his debacle. 

[Tom the Sawyer]

Way back in the late 80s we lived in a residential neighborhood and I had about 5 oak logs stored on my driveway, up close to the garage.  City inspector knocked on the door and said that they had received a complaint, but couldn't articulate the violation0.  I walked with him down to the end of the driveway and pointed up the street about 3 houses where they had about 2 cords of firewood that lined the retaining wall by their driveway... "what is the difference?", I asked, "mine are just bigger".

I explained that I had an appointment scheduled for a mobile mill and that in the next week they would be gone and the neighbor's firewood stack had been there for years.  He seemed curious about the sawmill idea and asked if he could come by on Saturday (his day off) when we milled the logs.  He showed up that day, even helped move some boards.  The lumber was stacked in the garage, the next door neighbor took the slabs for his fireplace and another neighbor shoveled up the sawdust for his compost pile.

I asked him who had complained and, at that time, they would not tell you unless they made a second, unfounded, complaint.  I had milling events on my driveway once or twice a year until we built our home on 10 acres 4 years later.  No more complaints..., that I heard about.

[Kindlinmaker]

This is a very common issue.  As I have bumped into this and avoided issues a couple times, I used to look for local customs as I worked around the country.  I was amazed at some of the very rural areas where I saw issues.   Not what I would expect.  It has given rise to a whole industry of mini warehouses and new use of dilapidated commercial properties for equipment parking.  If you look when you travel, you will see both all over. 

As noted by a couple posts, code enforcement is driven by complaints in many areas.  There are subdivisions around me where you can't park a pick-up with a name on the door and others where small excavators might have 5 or 6 pieces of equipment tucked behind buildings or some trees.  It all depends on neighbors and keeping stuff out of site.  I always follow the Good Books instructions and love thy neighbor to avoid zoning issues.  All the smart small business guys I know make sure the neighbors are well cared for.

BTW, be very careful about ever saying anything about a "business" to any government official or nosy busybody.  This is an instant trigger for zoning violations and homeowners insurance cancellation (and yes, insurance companies have been known to regularly "scrape" legal notice sites to find policy holders running businesses from insured premises).  I know of numerous towns where you can park an excavator in the front yard legally for personal use but can't have a shovel on the porch for business use.

[RussMaGuss]

I do actually own a small business, but the "office" is in a different town and I made sure to tell the guy that all of my activity here is hobby related. My skid steer is actually company owned, though my neighbor to the north doesn't care about all this stuff and would probably let me store it where he used to have his. Heck, he's got more land and might let me 'rent' a space for my logs and board piles. If I did want to park my machine in my garage, would I just tell the guy it violates the 4th amendment if he wants to search it for the machine?

I give it a 50/50 shot the complaint came from my neighbor who's property was filled with like 10 junk cars up until it got listed for sale recently. He is a big BS'er who makes it seem like he's a big shot. My very first suspicion was that this was a low-level shakedown to try and increase his land value. He's had a couple investors over, but his asking price is like double what it's actually worth. There's a dilapidated house and 3 sheds that need to be torn down and about 20 half dead elm trees that need removing. No way to find out who did it though, just gotta move forward any way I can!

[mike_belben]

I was getting $200 a day fines for a "business" in mass as i was emptying everything out after foreclosure.  The grounds for it was a registered, insured 2 ton class D toter truck in the driveway hitched up, and stuff out of the garage or privacy fenced backyard, staged to load.  Meanwhile my neighbor buddy 2 doors over drove a daycab tractor home from work every day and parked it on the grass across the street without any issue.  So they will fine the guy not in violation and ignore the one who is when they want to.  Im not for govt, thats why i moved where people have to govern themselves without help from the law. 


Anyway the 4ft tall arrogant little turd code enforcer sought the job for power and revenge on the world, that was very clear.  He wouldnt knock on the door, he'd just send me telephoto pictures from far away of my own stuff that changed every week with new fines.  I plead my case with the reception ladies on the phone every week until they sent him out and face to face i showed i was moving and would leave the place clean but theyd never get a cent from me.  He gave me a 30 day waiver and was awful nice at arms reach.  


I bought the place for the 2 car 2 story garage and dead end street across from a white cedar swamp that could never be developed.  And to keep my 5 neighbors happy, i plowed the driveways, the street and the shoulder so we could have massive amounts of free parking, every single storm. And i kept it all mowed for a decade, cleaned all the blowdowns that trapped us in each storm, stuff like that.  It was a meticulous little quiet neighborhood in a violent city.  

 
Lets just say the neighbors memories were short any time they had a gripe.  People just arent designed to live ontop each other. 


There is no zoning where i live now so i made sure to get a biz license pretty quick. That little piece of paper that says my lot has a secondary commercial assessment is my ticket to tell them all scram.  I paid the cost to be the boss. 

[RussMaGuss]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of all the bureaucracy of gov't. I did make sure to go to the county permit office to apply for a gate to my driveway today though. That way no-one can actually see onto my property from the street, so there shouldn't be anyone to complain about log piles being "junk and debris". Gonna make sure I hang that permit in clear view for the guy that complained to see too lol. I believe that once the gate is installed, they might only be able to complain about noise, but my lawn mower is 19hp vs the 14hp bandmill. There is the 30hp lucasmill though, and that does scream.. At the end of the day, I think I'm gonna do my best to conceal my activities and avoid wandering eyes and if I get another complaint visit from the county I have a spot I found to rent at a reasonable rate for plan B. Moving my solar kiln will be fun if it comes to it  8)

[wesdor]

Illinois has a reputation of being a corrupt state. What county are you in?  Some are much worse than others. 

[low_48]

It doesn't take a bad neighbor to get a notice from the county. They can see everything you have from a satellite view on Google Maps. My friend got a visit from the county, telling him to clean up behind his shed. The shed is 1/4 mile from the road, backed up against the woods, and no neighbors. He just had to hurry up prepping the skids for his outdoor boiler.

[sawguy21]

A friend frequently had a helicopter flying low over his property, the city said it was the RCMP looking for grow ops. He did learn they would report any new construction to the city or regional district who would then check for permits, it would include rv's possibly being used as residences which violates bylaws. No escaping Big Brother! >:(