Live oak, white oak, post oak

[learner]

Between everyone here and my Dad, I'm totally confused now! So can anyone help me understand the differences in these woods?  I do know that true post oak has a tendency to to crack but can be a pretty wood at the same time.  Or am I mistaking white oak for post oak?
Is post oak also known as blackjack?  What are the differences in all the White oaks?

[WDH]

Blackjack oak is a red oak.  The white oak group contains a number of species, two of which are white oak and post oak.  I learned live oak as a member of the white oak group, but I have heard that it has been placed in its own special category.  The key characteristics of the white oak group are 1). the acorns mature and drop in one year.  In the red oaks, acorns take two years to mature.  2).  the leaves of the white oak have more rounded lobes without spines.  The red oaks have spines.  3).  the wood of the white oak group has a crystalline structure called tyloses that plug the lumen of the wood cell, making moisture flow slower, thus the preference for barrels for whiskey and wine.  The pores of the red oaks are not occluded with tyloses.  (note:  most white oaks in the white oak group have tyloses, but in a few species like chestnut oak or swamp chestnut oak, they may not be present).

I do not believe that you can structurally distinguish the wood in the white oak group by species.  That is, you cannot look at a board and tell if the board came from a post oak or a white oak by just looking at the anatomical features of the wood.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

Major commercial species included in the white oak group are white (so this is a bit confusing), chestnut (leaks if used for liquid barrels), post, overcup, swamp chestnut, bur, chinkapin, Oregon white, and swamp white (really hard to dry swamp white without checks).

Included in the red oak group are northern red (often just called red, so a bit confusing), southern red, scarlet, Shumard, pin, black, cherrybark, water, laurel and willow.

Live oak is indeed a white oak, but its properties (including density, strength, interlocked grain, evergreen) are quite a bit different than the other commercial white oaks, so it might be best considered separately.  Actually, there are several important species called live oak; they are all similar in properties.

There are around 20 commercial red oak species and 20 white oaks.  A dendrologist might find that in North America we have over 100 species of oak.

For the most part, the species in the commercial red oaks are quite similar and also the commercial white oaks, so from a practical point of view, we do not separate them within a group  (except live oak and sometimes California black oak).  However, we do separate the oaks within a group into those with rings spaced about 1/4" or more apart from those with closer ring spacing.  The wider spacing (sometimes called Southern, but not too accurate) is harder to dry, a bit more dense, and higher shrinkage, with some resulting processing differences.

Also, those oak trees with anaerobic bacterial infections will produce drying and strength issues.  As the bacteria are more common in wet sites, and some oak species prefer wetter sites, we see more issues with the wide ring (Southern) oaks.  As the species listed above are often found in one region of the country (northern or Appalachian, for example), we often say that one species is harder to dry than another, but it could be due to the higher risk of bacterial infection and not the wood itself.

Bottom line:  Look at tree or log quality factors (straight grain, growth rate, knots, color, shake or odor, sweepy log, etc.) rather than being overly concerned about the species within the white or red group.

[learner]

WOW! I see i still have a LOT to learn! All i can say is that every year at this time of year the ground crunches when i walk on it.  All those acorns that fall every year. Thinking about wearing a hard hat! Those things Hurt when they hit you on the head!  Cut what I thought was post oak into 2x4s yesterday and they were some beautiful 2x4s!
This is the rest of that tree that i cut today. 

 
 

 
So what do you think gentlemen?
Those are 1x10' and 1x8's. Sawed the log to 15" x 18" then cut at 10". Rotated to cut the 1x8's and 1x10's at the same time.

[beenthere]

What's in the pics look like some good boards.
What are your plans for the wood?

[WDH]

Was the bark light gray and scaly?  The white oaks have a very distinct smell, and it is a much different odor than that of the red oaks.

[Tree Feller]

WOW! I see i still have a LOT to learn!

Me too but it's an interesting subject. Between Danny and Doc, we should both be experts in a few years.   

Seriously, it's great learning from informed sources. One doesn't get exactly accurate info on a lot of internet sites.   ;)

[learner]

Me too but it's an interesting subject. Between Danny and Doc, we should both be experts in a few years.   

Seriously, it's great learning from informed sources. One doesn't get exactly accurate info on a lot of internet sites.   ;)

So very true Tree Feller.  ;) beenthere, I'm gonna sticker/stack and dry that wood for sure. I'm rebuilding my 13x63 mobile home from the frame up and thinking those boards would make some nice looking cabinets.
WDH, this is a pic of that trees bark.

 

[WDH]

HA!  Nicely light gray and scaly  :D.  Did you notice the smell?  One of my favorites, next to the smell of fresh sawn walnut  .

[Tree Feller]

Looks like Post Oak to me. I spent all day cutting down drought-killed Post Oak and stacking it in 8' lengths for cutting into firewood later. Most of what I cut was too small for sawing.

I have a few more large ones that I hope to get down this weekend but they require a line to pull them away from the fence or utility lines.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

White oak acorns can be dried and then ground into flour.  When used to make bread, there is an awesome nutty flavor...plus, because almost every white oak acorn has a worm in it, you automatically get your meat.

The flour part is true.

[learner]

I still don't know just What it may be Tree Feller. But Post Oak or not, the wood I got from that log is nice enough to dry and keep IMO.  WDH It's interesting that you should mention the smell of walnut. I sawed this Black Walnut right after the ? Oak.


 
You may notice some waving in the top and second board.  4 nails and a 22 slug tend to cause that. Fortunately we spotted nails 5 and 6 before we sawed through them!
I Like that Gene! Gotta love meat and bread.  :D Looked into Acorn uses a couple years ago but couldn't find a buyer for them.

[Okrafarmer]

 :D :D :D :D
Try selling them to a deer farm!

[WDH]

It was a prolific white oak acorn fall this year.  The deer, turkeys, and hogs are happy.

[5quarter]

...but deer don't bake bread, do they?

[Okrafarmer]

...but deer don't bake bread, do they?

uh. . . . you tell me. I thought that's why they called her a dough. And if a girl deer bakes acorn bread, I suppose she would have to gather dough-nuts. But if she was going to make pie, she might do better to gather apples. From pine trees.