Help/advice on what vertical band saw to buy

[Brad_bb]

You guys helped me hone in on the right planer for me so hoping you can help with a bandsaw.  I want it to be a good one that I will use the rest of my life.

I'm thinking I might need to get 2 for my needs

Use 1 - sawing curves.  For that I think I'd need a narrow band.  This is for sawing curves in 2"- 8" thick stock like boards and timberframe braces.  Also for small precision woodworking. But what saw to do that on?  I'd want a good amount of vertical clearance- maybe 12"-14"?  When it says a 14" band saw is that referring to the maximum cut height?  Or is that the throat depth?  I'd like as much throat depth.

Use 2- resaw. Resawing boards into thinner boards or veneers.  I assume you'd need more power(bigger HP motor).  I'd also need a fence.

Are there any special features that are a must on a vertical bandsaw?  Adjustments of the band?  Guides?  Any special options to look at?  I'm looking on the Grizzly website and there are so many....

I'm not on the cheap as this will hopefully be one or two I'll use til I'm dead and love it.  

[Dan_Shade]

I have a grizzly 5013x2.  I like it.  I wish it was heavier, but it's a sheet metal machine with a small table. 

Doing a curve in a 8" thick timber is way beyond what most folks attempt, but is probably not a problem with a good blade.  I would think would want a bit more than 2 HP. 

[Brad_bb]

I'm not sure if one saw can do all I want.  Grizzly has a 17" 2hp with variable speed for doing both wood and metal.  Do you ever need to adjust speed for hard wood?

I'm surprised that there are so many sizes available.  I did learn that the size is the wheel diameter.  14", 17", 19", 21", 24"...so many sizes available, I wonder why so many choices?  Looks like I'd have to step up to a 19" to get 3hp.  The 17" has mostly 2hp motors except there is one 5hp version.  I am 220V single phase.

Most have a version with a foot brake. Why is that needed? Does anybody use that? For what?  
Other versions have a motor brake.  Is one better than another?

[firefighter ontheside]

As you learned, the 14" means the size of the wheels, which translates to width of cut or at least close.  You lose a little because of the blade guard.  To answer why so many sizes, its because of width of cut.  If you wanna cut something 23" wide, gotta have a saw with 24" wheels.  Gotta have more HP to turn bigger wheels.

I have the Grizzly G0513X2 and I definitely recommend it.  I can cut 12" tall.  I have blades from 1/8" to maybe an inch.  I routinely use a 3/8 blade, but can switch to smaller to cut tighter curves.  I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than a 14" saw.  I tried using a 9" saw once and the blades are so thin it would deflect with slightest pressure.

The foot brake is just to stop the blade.  It will spin and spin and spin without it.  Not a problem if you are gonna turn the saw off and walk away, but if you wanna make an adjustment to guides and such you have to wait a long time for the saw to stop.  Mine does not have a brake.  I do recommend a saw that has a lever to tension the blade quickly.  My old saw you had to turn the adjustment handle to de-tension the blade.  With the lever you always go back to the same tension.  Just like our mills, its best to take the tension off when not in use.  

[dougtrr2]

Personally, I am a fan of old woodworking equipment, but I am assuming you are looking for something to take home and start using without a complete teardown and rebuild. So there are some consideration. 

The wheel size determines the throat depth.  Saws with the same size wheels will have a different height under the guides.  The height under the guide will determine your resew width.  And yes, you will need more power for resewing.

What radius curves are you thinking about?  There are charts that tell you the minimum radius based on the blade width.  It looks like Grizzly put one out.  g0555_as.pdf  If you are sawing curves for timber framing I don't think you will need that skinny of a blade.

With the size of lumber you are considering, look for larger tables to help keep it stabilized.  Also, look at the trunnions holding up the table.  They will need to be pretty beefy.

The brake, foot or electric, is just to get the blade to slow down faster.  The big saws can coast for quite a while, presenting a slight safety issue.  

One speed is fine for a bandsaw that just cuts wood.  A wood/metal bandsaw is not nearly as useful as you would think.  If you cut metal and then switch to wood you have contamination issues.  Those little bits of metal  can embed themselves in your wood project.  And it is virtually impossible to get them all cleaned out. 

Doug in SW IA

[Brad_bb]

Thanks @firefighter ontheside !  You're making me think about going bigger.  As you go up though, the minimum blade size goes up.  I do plan to use my bandsaw for small projects as well.  Do you use a 1/8" blade much for smaller stuff(curves)?  If the min is 1/4", is that more limiting for small stuff?

Points well taken @dougtrr2  especially the cross contamination, trunion and table size.


At this point I am sort of inclined to stay a little smaller like 19" 3hp.  Decent throat depth, can still use 1/8" blade if desired for small stuff/tighter curves, and still do some resawing.  If I go that route and then find a need for bigger, I can address that then.  The question is, is this one too big to do small stuff?  Will it seem like I'm using a sledge hammer for trim hammer work?

[btulloh]

Well, dougtrr2 saved me a lot of typing.  He covered a lot of points and is spot on.

There are a lot of good choices out there for bandsaws now, but your research will get you where you need to go.

Grizzly has so many that it's a little confusing to sort out.  You're already getting tuned in though.  You might want to look over the Jet offerings for wood cutting bandsaws to help narrow the field, even if you end up going with Grizzly.  Also look at Laguna - they make higher end saws for woodworking and it can help sort things out even if you don't end up buying their saw.  Fine Woodworking usually has a run-down and review of bandsaws every year that should be available on line.

I have three vertical saws - a 14" metal saw, a 14" Jet wood saw with 6" riser blocks (1hp, 12" vertical height with riser) and a 1970's Delta 16" saw with 2hp motor.  Most of my work is done on the 14" Jet and it sports a 1/2" blade 97% of the time.  A 1/2" blade will cut a fairly tight curve is a good all round blade to keep on there.  Like dougtrr2 said, check the chart for curve cutting info - very rarely do you need a skinny blade but it's easy to put one on when you need it.

FWIW, I've sawn a lot of very thin veneer mostly on the 14" Jet and the 1HP is ok even for wide stuff.  As always though more power is better.  I use the 16" saw mostly for re-sawing green stuff and it generally has a 1" bi-metal blade on it.

For what you're planning, I'd look into the 20" saws probably.  

I never knew a footbrake was available.  Must be a new thing.  Sounds handy, but not essential.

Good advice from dougtrr2 on the metal/wood saws.  Not a good mixture.  

Variable speed is important for metal but not needed in wood really.

There are a lot of good fences available for bandsaws.  Get one with micro adjust capability and angle adjust.  Pretty much all of them have both, so  . . .   Make sure it's easy to remove and install the fence.  It gets in the way of some operations.

Adjusting the lead is essential when using a fence.  Just part of the game.  General setup and alignment plays a big part in how much lead is required.  Well-adjusted saws will need very little or no lead.

If you're sawing curves on braces you'll probably want an oscillating spindle sander for cleaning up the saw marks.  Best tool for that.  Can also use a radius-sole hand plane, spoke shaves, even a drawknife.  You have pay close attention to grain direction when using the edge weapons, but not with the spindle sander.

If you're sawing veneer, you'll want a drum or flat belt sander to clean up the sawn face.  There are other ways to accomplish that that don't involve spending more money, but they can eat up a lot of time.

Big tables are important for big work, but generally these are shop-built and used when necessary.  Sometimes just using a roller stand will do, sometimes you need the big table.  Depends on the work.  Big tables can be a detriment for some work, so a removable table or two made from baltic birch or MDF or something is a good solution.  Sometimes you have to fab up a quick table to fit an odd job.  All part of the fun.

Hope that all is helpful.  I can't really say much about some of the choices out there now, but I know you will work through it and come up with a good solution and others will weigh in with some specifics on brands etc.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[firefighter ontheside]

I have yet to use the 1/8 blade that I have.  It will probably not work well, unless I get carter guides, which you may want to get if you intend to use an 1/8 blade.  The 1/4 blade can cut pretty tight turns.  I used to make bandsaw boxes when I had time and the 1/4 blade did well.  If you're thinking about getting a 19" saw, I'm thinking 2 saws would be best for you.  14" for small stuff and 19" for bigger stuff.

[btulloh]

If you're thinking about getting a 19" saw, I'm thinking 2 saws would be best for you.  14" for small stuff and 19" for bigger stuff.

Good point.  Plus we all love to help spend your money.  Two bandsaws, spindle sander, wide belt sander - 

It seems like the 14" saw usually ends up getting most of the work for some reason.  

One trick that can be very useful is used a lot these days comes from the guys in the wooden ship restoration craft.  They will put four swivel casters on a 14" saw and use it to cut curves on big ship timbers.  Move the tool and not the timber.  This technique also comes in for cutting ornamental curves on the ends of timbers used in purgolas etc.  

(These references to 19" and odd-numbered sizes are new to me.  Must be something that's fairly new.  I'm used to even-numbers like 14", 20" etc.  Looks like I need to update my brain.)

[Brad_bb]

Getting a lot of good stuff to think about.  I want to order one quickly.

[Larry]

My random thoughts on bandsaws.

You won't be able to tell the difference between a board cut on bandsaw A compared to bandsaw B if both saws are similar.  

Lots of incorrect notions about bandsaws from guys that like to sell wood working books and gadgets.  Drift, you tilt the log on your sawmill to correct for drift?  Saws cut accurate and straight if they are set up correctly.

Small saws in the 14" range run the blade in the speed range of 3,000 to 3,800 feet per minute.  Saws in the 20" and up range run the blade at 4,500 feet per minute and higher. I like speed for re-sawing.

Brakes on big saws are nice.  I run a couple of my saws with a VFD programed with deceleration so I don't use the brake.

I have used and assembled three different Grizzly saws for a wood working school.  While they cut wood just fine, the quality isn't close to some other saws.  

Big tables are nice.

Full disclosure.  I have two Delta 20" saws and a 14" Delta.  One 20" Delta normally has a Laguna carbide Resaw-King band for re-sawing while the other has a 3/8" band for curvy stuff.  I think the made in USA 20" Delta and Powermatic's are about the best, until getting into the high end saws like Tannewitz.

[tule peak timber]

MiniMax has some price point Italian saws (SCMI ) that you might want to look at. There is a good article by "Solowoodworker" on MininMax saws you might want to seek out and read. Rob

[scsmith42]

Brad,

Laguna and Minimax both make great band saws.

But for the money, for your needs my top two choices would be either a Grizzly G0514XB2 19" saw, or the G0513XB2 17" saw (or equivalent).  The electric brake is fantastic, but a foot brake is acceptable.

I have the latter and love it, but the former is one of the favorites of the president of Grizzly.

[boonesyard]

Brad,

I have been researching this same decision for months. I have similar needs and also expect to make this last. I've narrowed my decision down to 2 saws, both of which are expensive, but have the features that make them what I need. 

Saw #1 - Laguna 18BX - 3HP 220vlt 1ph motor
              18" throat 
              16" resaw capacity
              1/8" to 1-1/4" blade sizes
              table height from floor - 38"
              tool less ceramic guides
              $1,999

Saw #2 - Powermatic PM1500 - 3HP 220vlt 1ph motor
               14" resaw capacity
               14.5" throat 
               1/8" to 1" blade sizes
               table height from floor - 40"
               tool less roller guides
               $2,999

The ceramic guides seem to be very well received on the Laguna. They both have the brake pedal with a micro switch that also shuts the machine off. This was an important feature for me as I usually have my hands full when working with the bandsaw. They both have robust tables and fences, although I would give the nod to the Powermatic as it has a rack and pinion that tilts the table. The Powermatic also has a microswitch that will not allow the machine to turn on unless the blade tensioner is fully extended (nice safety feature). The table height is important to me in that I tend to be right in there watching the cut, and so many of the other tables seemed very low to me. They're expensive machines, but I'll buy once, cry once.

I decided to go with the Laguna, but soon found out that everyone was completely out of stock. Sounds like if you order one, it would be well after the first of the year before you might see it. I need one very soon, but still have not made a decision. I know the Powermatic is very well made, but it's pricey  :.

Sorry for the long response, but thought my research might have some value. Good luck   

[21incher]

I will tell you which saw I would not buy again and why. The Laguna 18 BX
I bought one when they first came out. It is a good looking saw and that is about it. Mine came with a mis- machined trunnion and a warped out of balance lower wheel. Trying to get support was a nightmare. Finally the guy running their Facebook site felt sorry for me and found a contact to help. Turns out the trunnion casting was the same lightweight one from the 14 bx so they were able to replace that. The lower wheel was not available till the next shipment came from Taiwan in several months. While removing the wheel I noticed the retaining nut was only finger tight with no backup washer and it loosened the same direction the wheel turns. Turned out a company in Taiwan owned the design and engineering on the machine (not USA as claimed) that I was in on emails with. They cut cost and didn't put a spacer between the center races so if the nut is tightened the bearings will be overloaded and fail. Next it was determined the whole wheel brake and drive pulley had to be replaced as an assembly because it is all mounted with large clearance holes and needs to be sent to Taiwan to put in a special alignment fixture for assembly and then rebalanced. Finally the tech support guy pulled a good wheel off their demo saw and shipped it to me to shut me up. I am afraid to use the brake for fear of the disc shifting screwing up the wheel balance again. Got everything fixed adjusted and put a new Laguna blade on to try it. Turned it on heard a funny noise and saw a piece of the ceramic guide on the table. Turned out the weld was not perfectly ground on the new blade and the mismatch damaged the guide. Another thing is the big table has no support when tilting and slams down as the trunnions are loosened that is really a pain. About 3 months after I got it the motor would not turn on so I opened it up looking for a motor starter and there is none. They just used a contactor with no overload protection and the wire to the coil was corroded with no terminal. Compared to my old saw I will say this saw has no more then 1 1/2 horsepower and not the 3hp it is sold as. I have videos about it all and was contacted by a couple other buyers with similar problems and no support so I gave them my contact info. As you can see I am not happy with the saw and would not recommend it to anyone. These offshore tools can really be hit and miss.

[Tom King]

I have four bandsaws.  One old Delta/Milwaukee that I upgraded the motor to a 1-1/2 hp Baldor, riser block, and all sorts of other hot rodding bandsaw stuff.  Soon after I did all that to that saw, Rikon came out with the 10-326.  I wish I hadn't put all that time, and money in the old Delta, but it's not bad for a 14" saw.

The new steel framed 14" saws are stiffer than the old cast iron ones.

I have an old Centauro 24" that keeps a 1" Lenox Woodmaster CT 1/3 TPI blade on it for resawing.  Nothing beats size, and blade for resawing.  You can't run a blade that wide on a much smaller saw.  I also use it for making shingles, and can push a 28" board through on the sled about as fast as I can push it.  We can make a stack of boards into a pickup truck load of shingles in about an hour-that's with two helpers.  Even as fast as that carbide tipped blade will cut, the surface quality is about as good as anyone needs for resawing anything, including veneer.

The larger the saw, the more tension it can put on the blade, and typically they run at progressively higher blade speeds as you go up in size.

Also, I have a 10" Craftsman/Rikon that I keep a 1/4" blade on.  It's great for small stuff.  I liked it so much that I bought a second one off CL, and keep a 1/8" blade, and Carter stabilizer on that one.

Don't believe what size blade the sales pitch says you can run on the machine.  Some 14"er's will tell you they can run a 3/4" blade, but 1/2" is about the limit for a 14" saw, for best surface quality.  More tension means smoother cut.

I think for cutting curves in timber framing parts, that portable one like Tule Peak has would be the best.

[tule peak timber]

I have limited experience with Laguna Tools and most definitely will never go near them again. Rob

[Southside]

I have the Grizzly G0513X2 with 17" wheels, got it back around '08 and have been very happy with it. 

Doesn't have the brake but has the quick tension lever and has worked well for me. 

[Larry]

I'm not sure about Laguna.  A few years ago you could get a Laguna badged bandsaw from China or Italy.  There was a big difference in quality along with price.

I'm not sure if Laguna is actually making machines now.  I have a Laguna jointer that was made by Griggio.

[tule peak timber]

Torbin , who owns Laguna doesn't build anything to my knowledge......

[21incher]

King Saw Machinery Ltd in Taiwan engineered and built my Laguna 18BX. Definitely  cheap Chinese engineering. 

[Brad_bb]

Wow, I always had the impression that Laguna was a higher end/quality brand.  Shows what I know.

[btulloh]

At one time they had a good reputation. Sounds like that's changed. Good to know. 

[Brad_bb]

Are any made in USA?  Are Grizzly Taiwan too?

[btulloh]

AFAIK they're all made in taiwan. Even the powermatics are made in Taiwan. The fit and finish are better on brands like PM. Don't know if that happens when they get here or specified in the contract.  

Some good saws come from Italy. Maybe they originate in Taiwan too.  

Globalization.