I'm looking at purchasing a 1997 timbco 445d with a saw head on it. I am just wanting your opinion on this machine. Thanks.
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Sorry I don't know anything about the machine but your question may get better responses if you post it in the Forestry and Logging topics. Good luck on finding the right piece of equipment.
@TimberJoe (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=43470) agree with Don, move thread to forestry and logging section or just start a new thread there. Also, let people know where you are by updating profile.
Theres a hotsaw timbco buncher in TN for $50k .. I think i saw it on LSN.com and iirc it had 8 or 9 k hours. Maybe wrong on that part.
@BargeMonkey (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24634) has a Timbco, I think he has a bar saw on his IIRC
Thanks, just looking to hear the good and the bad of the machine.
Got anymore pictures because something ISNT RIGHT.... 👎 1997 isnt a D, and look at the final drives. Right by the door is a # stamped on the steel plate. The upper maybe a D, I dont think the bottom is. What's it got for a head ?
Barge - you are right - what final drives?? :o
Quote from: Southside logger on January 12, 2019, 10:34:40 PM
Barge - you are right - what final drives?? :o
That's an A model scabbed into a D upper... Not saying its "bad" but those finals where known to be weak. When I blew a final I got a HUGE education from a guy in OH on Timbco parts, guy lives and breathes Timbco. That machine should have GFT 80 final drives....
I guess I actually don't know they year.
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I think i see a 6CTA with a bosch p3000 pump and rsv governor. That part of the equation should be pretty reliable.
Quote from: mike_belben on January 13, 2019, 01:07:36 AM
I think i see a 6CTA with a bosch p3000 pump and rsv governor. That part of the equation should be pretty reliable.
The better of the engine choices for them is the Deere because of the being on slopes Cummins loose oiling.
What size of timber are you planning on being in? Have you priced out moving a 445? Just by looking at the one you've posted, the old girl lookings like she's not too far from need an undercarriage. How's the Rotex bearing? Tilt cylinders? Head looks like she's seen her fair share of plating as well as welding.
Is it missing the middle finger? I think thats just for accumulating pulp? Maybe undesirable in larger single stems.. I dunno.
It's an accumulator they work in bigger wood as well Mike. One thing that can take a person a while to learn to do with the older Timbco bar saw heads is to remember to retract the bar since it's manually controlled vs the newer heads with a proximity sensor in the saw bar for auto retract.
I will be using it in timber ranging from 6 inches up to as big as it can take. I've got a few sales going. Let's say I buy this machine for 5k at auction. Do you think I could get a season out of the undercarriage. My seasons are short, july to December, and I'm a one man opperation. I have a 450c timberjack skidder with grapple and winch. I have been cutting with my skidsteer, but it's a pretty rough ride going over logs. I appreciate all the information.
Without looking it over there is no way to know how long it would last. Might get a couple seasons, might not get off the lowboy before a final gave out.
So you think the finals will be the biggest issue off the get go? I couldn't find any information on these type of drives? Any idea how much 2 new assembly would cost? I can put them in.
Without looking it over and feeling stuff out it's kind of anyone's guess or hope. Do you know where the machine is? How many axles you're going to need to move it? Take a 415 out here I need a standard truck with a minimum of a two axle lowboy, a 425 I need a three axle possibly a drop on the truck as well.
The finals were just an example, it could be a pump that goes. The problem with older iron like that is not always what the cost of the replacement part it - it's actually finding the part. If it was a common failure point then many times all the decent used ones are long gone.
i dont recall the whole story it was a valmet timco the dealer did the repair. at least 1 final drive complete undercarrige and a few other things. final bill was 65k
It's about 250 miles north of me. I am only needing one season out of it to be worth it to me. I would think it needs a tripple axle low boy. Should weight around 60k.
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Judging by the amount of dirt built up on the floor I'd say the operator was in and out of the cab a lot fixing issues ;) :) :)
is this out west? any pictures of the bushings on the track chain? pads dont look that bad. is this a repo? i have bough some repo stuff and it turned pretty good and sometimes not so good
They don't have pictures of the bushings or track chain. Yes it's in the northwest. I'm considering buying it, I think worst case I can use the motor in a log truck I have with a bad motor.
Doesnt look much different then A model cat 215/225/235 ive sold with inboard finals. They ran up to 30k hours before being cut for export parts.
I cant fathom that machine going as low as $5k at public auction. I think the economy is still too high for such a dirt price. I got 5k for a 1970s gradall few years back. 15 for a cat 966 just as old.
You are probably right Mike. I have no experience with equipment auctions, I just saw this machine and thought it looked decent. Are those drives you talk about easy to come about?
Kinda apples to oranges, i was talking about cat excavators. In the 70s and 80s they ran inboarded finals and a dozeresque sprocket like the one you pictured. In the cats they werent a particular weakness which probably says nothing about the timbcos.
If that can operate as it sits i suspect the price starts in the 20k range.. But i havent ever been to a forestry auction. I know the cheapest 445 i have seen posted in my area is 50k and theres another in the 150k range been for sale a couple years.
I appreciate the input. I'm tired of bumping over logs in Deere skidsterr, hard on the machine and me. I will watch it see what happens.
The problem we have out here with the inboard finals is catching them on stumps but it sounds like most of your wood is small.
There's been stuff like that sell for dirt cheap the guys are getting rid of iron to replace it or just don't want it laying around anymore, times like this better for a buyer then when times are slow.
I have a sale to finish 1000ccf of 8 inch diameter average pine. Than I go to a sale of 300ccf of 20 inch Average live fir. This will be my second season logging.
Where are you located?
I'm in East idaho
If you can buy it cheap theres nothing "wrong" with it. If it's a tilt barsaw that's worth 7-10k just for the head in good shape. The components are what kills on a timbco. Undercarriage doesnt look thrashed. Finals are my only issue and that's because I see its 2x machines built into 1. They lay wood down in a hurry. Accumulator arm on a barsaw head gets taken off and thrown under the bench, unless your thinning uniform wood it's a pain. If it runs drives and works it's worth 20-40k.
Thanks. I appreciate the input. I would not have noticed the undercarriage was from another machine if you hadn't said it. It's obvious now. I think it would be a good addition to my equipment if I can get it cheap enough I will jump on it considering that all the factors are unknown to me. I saw a video of it walking around a yard but that's it.
Does it say what size the head is? The 24, 28, or 33? If you do get it look at getting your own stuff for doing 11H chain it's expensive chain to start with let alone to have someone else build loops for you.
No it doesn't say what size head it is. The auction. Ends in 10 days. I'm not experienced with online auctions so I will just have to wait and see what happens. I hope I get it. Then I'll have to figure a efficient way to limb
You could use a limbing gate or something like that, it's not always the cleanest but you'd only have one pile of brush to deal with.
I have to limb the wood pretty good or the firewood customers get mad. That is my main source of sales. I'm thinking about getting a loader with a pull through delimber
I would say it's the 33" head, looks like a 28" bar, hard to tell. Someone took some time and made a nice guard for the inside. 3/4 chain is CHEAP for how much wood you can produce, I'm going on yr #4 having the same 2 bars. It looks like it's a 40 degree head which is nice, guys say you dont need it but I think it's a must, I'm not sure what exactly your cutting but you can do most of it from the cab, I top and limb, shovel, they are handy. Take the pin out and throw the rest of that accumulator arm away, boat anchor.
That machine is probably a 540 rotation, nothing wrong with it just you want to pay attention if you go to swing with a tree. A true 445 weighs 73k lbs.
It is a rotating head. My current sales are dry pine 8" average. Then my next sale is a 20" average green fir sale.
Tilts 40 degrees either way, it's the way to go. In the cab pictures did it show a "hotsaw" button on the dash ? I lay you odds it's probably got the pump for one. A barsaw lays wood down CHEAP, dont have to run the rpms to death to run the head. I want to say they are 2.5" shoulderd 1/2 inch bolts, keep a few in the cab, if you really mangle a bar throw the bolts away. After a little while you will get the hang of it, dont just grab the tree, grab and push a little bit. smaller stuff can be worse than big stuff to cut, I've cut 4ft+ stuff with mine but I dont recommend it all the time. You can break a tilt cylinder trying to force a tree.
Yes it does have the hotsaw button. I'm sure it will take some getting used to. I'm hoping the price doesn't get to high. I'm just starting out, Ive got a full size self loader semi, a the 450c with swing grapple and winch. And uveI been cutting with my Deere ct332 skidsteer with a tree shear on it.
Is a lot of timber sold as ccf out that way? Never hear that over this way. How long did the bigger unit take to cut?
Night and day comparing a 445 and a skidsteer with a shear. If your mowing it down it's not hard to lay 600 down in a hurry. If I cut for 1 day it takes me 3ish days to pick up with a grapple and get slashed, used to take me 1wk with a 440 cable for every good day that i cut with my 425. That timbco will go places most guys dont have the balls to attempt, as long as you keep it reasonably pointed up hill you will wanna stop before she will 🤣
Thats good to hear. I want to get better, faster, more productive. Id like to do 600 trees a day with ease.
If you have a little bit of a head start you can keep 2 skidders hopping with that machine, I bury my 460 constantly. If you buy it change the 4 hydraulic filters, 3 are above and 1 down below. Change the track drive pump oil, the stick is inside the door looking at the back, if the seals go it's a job to do in the woods. All and all they are a good machine, if you bought it and had final troubles you could buy a newer style carbody with GFT80 finals pretty reasonable, GFT80s are close to bulletproof what I'm told.
Quote from: BargeMonkey on January 13, 2019, 11:36:42 PMI bury my 460 constantly
It's been really wet here too this year Barge. :D
Quote from: Southside logger on January 13, 2019, 11:42:39 PM
Quote from: BargeMonkey on January 13, 2019, 11:36:42 PMI bury my 460 constantly
It's been really wet here too this year Barge. :D
I wont post pictures of what my job looks like, swallow a 440 skidder up in some of these ruts. I've about had it, so close to the end we dont care, skidded operator said enough just before 10pm, said his kidneys couldn't take the beating anymore after 14hrs....
This will be my second season logging. My goal this year is to profit. I learned alot. Alot of break downs, and alot about hired hands. This week I put a newotor iny log truck
Should be about as much fun as I can handle. I will take your advice on changing fluids and filters,.good advice. I would hope the drives will make it atleat l a season. I am going to try and buy it.
If its half way decent your looking at a good machine. I've got a set of books that cover 90% of that machine and the head, would gladly make you copies. Theres little quirks to the head, couple parts you want to keep on hand but all and all they are a good machine, I've laid down a mountain of wood with mine in a short time.
That would be great, I'll let you know if I end up getting it. You said the head looked to be a 33". If it is will it cut a 33" tree?
Bar is supposed to have 33", if you can walk around the tree you can cut 4'+. After 30" or so you risk splitting stuff, cutting in 1 pass can be a pain and getting your bar out in time is fun. 26" wood all day long, that's cut, pick and throw.
Ok cool, the only sales I can get here are no larger than 24 inch at breast hight. I'm logging all Forrest service ground
I havent seen much that's 24"dbh I couldn't throw, sometimes you will cut and push the real big stuff.
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Give you a rough idea of what they will cut 😂
Cool picture, id love to have a buncher. How do you limb? Limbing is my biggest time consuming portion of the days.
Depends on what your trees are like for delimbing - whether some basic like a 'stripper delimber' would work.
Are you looking for year round work. Excavator (if the terrain is not too steep and add longer grouser bars etc) with a felling head/ grapple and then convert back to a bucket for a dirt season. Get a more modern excavator with a closer dealer for parts support?
Timbco 415 and processor (up to 24 inch)
Timberheads Kodiak TH24D dangle on Timbco 415 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/l9Lt_STyMhE)
Komatsu and directional felling head (valmet etc - timbco derivative boom/ arm etc)
FL85 forest and Jungle - YouTube (https://youtu.be/XoJYbFs0tcY?t=201)
Timberjoe, There is a 445 on auctiontime.com now with 14 hrs left and is at 26k+. This has a lot of pics to compare with.
Quote from: Riwaka on January 15, 2019, 04:23:32 PM
Depends on what your trees are like for delimbing - whether some basic like a 'stripper delimber' would work.
Are you looking for year round work. Excavator (if the terrain is not too steep and add longer grouser bars etc) with a felling head/ grapple and then convert back to a bucket for a dirt season. Get a more modern excavator with a closer dealer for parts support?
Timbco 415 and processor (up to 24 inch)
Timberheads Kodiak TH24D dangle on Timbco 415 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/l9Lt_STyMhE)
Komatsu and directional felling head (valmet etc - timbco derivative boom/ arm etc)
FL85 forest and Jungle - YouTube (https://youtu.be/XoJYbFs0tcY?t=201)
The best thing about a Timbco is all the parts are off the shelf and source able. Track frames are cat, pump is rexroth or Linde, valve same thing, engine is Cummins or Deere all easy to get parts with a simple phone call.
Quote from: TimberJoe on January 15, 2019, 03:18:57 PM
Cool picture, id love to have a buncher. How do you limb? Limbing is my biggest time consuming portion of the days.
Your cutting mostly softwood ? If you take your time you can knock ALOT of the limbs off with the head, cut the top out. I'm running a stroker, it's old but it eats softwood. Do you have any other iron ? something you could feed a pull they with? A "stripper" works good, non hydraulic delimber, you can find a low hr used one around if you watch, mostly a northeast thing I've seen that model for sale.
You could pick up a danzco delimber or if you want more production a 314 ctr scd. I've used both and was able to get loads out with just a couple guys. A ctr 314 will run around 15k and a used danzco 5-10. The danzco sips fuel.
If you got a skidder that aint too pretty, cut a sunrise out of the blade and weld in a piece of bowed and sharpened 3/8 flatstock, about parallel to the ground, to make a knife. Add in some triangle gussets and it should look kinda like a curved locomotive track sweeper. Just drive that over your logs to delimb and touch up by hand if needed.
Quote from: TimberJoe on January 15, 2019, 03:18:57 PM
Cool picture, id love to have a buncher. How do you limb? Limbing is my biggest time consuming portion of the days.
At around 1:30 they use a limbing blade on this Deere swinging grapple skidder hope it helps.
Hansen Logging - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMAh_xbPIO8)
Timber Joe, Did you buy the machine?
That root rake is a good idea too. Just make sure all your belly pans are in place and hoses are tucked in.
Hey guys I didn't see your replies until now. I haven't purchased it yet. I have a 450c timberjack skidder. I have been thinking about a danzco. It looks to be pretty efficient. I will know what happens by the end of the week and I will update you on the machine. Yes I'm only cutting pine and Doug fir.