Anybody sold Mushroom Logs?

[WDH]

Well, the mushrooms are tasty. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Geez, youse guyz are all over the map! Did you get into some bad hooch last night or something?! :D ;D

[mike_belben]

No such thing

[mike_belben]

Belbening :D :D.

I found an example.  In this case 'belben' is a verb loosely translating to 'a proclivity for industrial accidents.'

Wait for it. No i did not hurt the neighbors 2 day old siding.
home made pressbrake - YouTube

[Old Greenhorn]

A picture is worth a thousand words, a video is even more. Now I get it. ;D I was beginning to get seasick swinging back and forth, but the crash snapped me right out of it.  :D
 Hard to tell in that video, but what part(s) failed? I would call that a success anyway, you did 'press' and it did 'break' and wasn't that the goal? ;D

[mike_belben]

Oh it works excellent but that was a big piece of 1/4 inch plate.  The threaded guide rod bent and i didnt notice it was tipping. 

[Rhodemont]

Old G,  I cut a few each year to replace those that are spent.  Most produce 3 or 4 years but I have a couple going back 6.

[Rhodemont]

This thread made me think about my plugged stumps so I took and walk to look them over this past weekend.  Rats, the two year old have been infected with local fungi, I will not get a second crop.  The first years should produce this coming spring but will be the last.  I knew this was a potential problem but sometimes you just gotta find out for yourself.

[Old Greenhorn]

I just read this whole thread again and it is amazing how spot on so many of the comments were. When I started the thread I was just thinking about it, now 7 months later I am nearly through with two cutting series, one in winter, and one in summer. The data on my winter cutting is only anecdotal, I did not keep good notes, but that showed me that there is a lot involved in making some money on this and when I started the summer cutting I kept lots of notes and a log of time, expenses, mileage, income and more. Yesterday I spent the afternoon compiling the data into a spreadsheet and although I have another week or so to go before I complete the current orders and can close it out for a summary, I can say that the numbers are 'interesting'. To say I learned a lot is an understatement. I took a strict business approach on this, no shortcuts, and documented everything. The actual billable income was small but I think all the numbers taken together at least present a somewhat comprehensive picture of what is involved and what can be expected.
 In the spirit of the knowledge sharing that this forum is known for I plan a full review when I complete this session, hours, expenses, miles, and income so that somebody else might be able to leverage what I have learned and tweak it to work better for them if they so desire. I do not know if I will continue to do this work going forward but I will share all those reasons too, as well as some tweaks I might try next time if I go that way.
 Stay tuned, I should have the report out done in about a week or two. Also, thank you to all the contributors above. Many of those commenters made me think and develop a better plan and/or methods early on in the game. Some of those comments were exactly spot on and I wish I had paid them more heed when they were written, not that I ignored them at all, I just didn't realize how accurate they were until I learned 'the hard way' on my own.
 More later....

[Old Greenhorn]

OK, I am ready to take a shot at sharing the lessons learned and financials as well as how the work was done and changes I made as I learned (the hard way mostly) better ways. I am going to do this in two, or possibly 3 posts. This one will cover the plan going in, how I got the work done and managed my time and how I wound up doing things at the end. The next one will give all the financials and how it all worked out, and then if there is a 3rd, it will be a discussion of what I would do to improve things going forward, assuming I do that. I will give a tease here and say, as you read this, it turned out to not be as big a loser as I expected. Actually it wasn't a loser at all, what I mean is the that the money I made was a little better than I felt I was earning as I went along. If I had not keep good books, I would have just said 'never again' and moved on. But keeping good records tells me a different story. So lets start at the beginning....with the process.....
---------------------------------------------------
Once I developed the right contacts, got listed on a regional map as a mushroom log supplier and then mentioned in a longstanding mailing list to Mushroom growers, I got lots of inquiries. Many sent an email asking for logs, then never responded to follow up emails with the details, I want to say about 20%. Many inquiries were for between 4 and 20 logs with some for 100, 50 or somewhere in between. I had one serious inquiry for between 1,000 and 4,000 logs IF they were all white oak of very specific dimensions. I kept honest expectations with all inquiries and was clear on what I could and could not do, but also kept good notes on those requests so I could keep my eyes open to future opportunities. So I had orders, I took no money in advance and held everyone to their word, I was clear about that. I had to wait until the trees had fully leafed out before I could harvest and I kept my clients in the loop as time went on with updates when I began harvesting so they knew it was on the way.
 Sourcing logs is the hardest part I think. I got lucky. Bargemonkey had a place with a willing landowner who would allow me to take tops, we toured the property before the cut. But as luck had it, another job popped in and he needed to do that first, so he invited me to take logs there. It turned out to be the most perfect setup I could ask for. It had trails looping through it that my Mule would just fit through and I could get pretty close to the trees which is critical. Barge got the ball rolling by dropping a few BIG red oaks and leaving them until I took out the top wood. This is where the learning began. I thought I had it made. 
 As it turned out, those branches take a beating as they come down and working in tops is tough. I cleaned out 4 or 5 trees that were on the ground, but when you consider that Mushroom logs have to be between 4 and 6" diameter and you look at the branch wood that is in the range, the amount you can take gets smaller than you might think. Then take out the pieces that got scarred on the way down and you have even less. On big trees it is very dangerous to try to climb into the top and just cut out what you want, safer is to cut the whole branch, drag it off, then cut your lengths. This also allows you to get the branch closer to the Mule for loading but you risk chafing more bark off. The first day I got 47 logs. It was good, but not really sustainable. I had cleaned off what I could from all the trees on the ground. I knew this would require too many big trees, so I started looking at options. 
 This ground is overgrown, so there are a lot of trees fighting it out for sunlight that had to be thinned even if not clear cut. Many were the red oaks I needed. So after talking with Barge about the property plans, on my next trip I switched gears. I started cutting trees that were about 7" on the stump and I could get 4-6 logs out of those. Some I cut were bigger and I would leave a short firewood log for Barge and those produced sometimes up to 8 logs or more. Finding trees was also time consuming so I would walk in the mornings with flagging tape and mark trees so I could find them easily later, then start cutting and shuttling logs. I pretty much stuck with this process for the rest of the harvest.
 Log handling was something I put a lot of prior thought into. These logs cannot be picked with mechanical means. Any bark scratches allow entry points for bacteria that will compete with the mushroom spores. So every log has to be picked up off the ground and hand loaded in the Mule (not thrown), then they get lifted from the Mule to my trailer for the ride home, then from the trailer to the pile in my yard, then at some point reloaded for delivery if not picked up by the buyer. Get the picture? Lots of handling, by hand and these logs weigh up to 60# or more. I knew up front that would wear me out. So I came up with this 'great idea': I would lay two 1" straps across the Mule bed, then lay my logs in. When it was full (15-20 logs depending on size) I would tie up the bundle with those straps and maybe add another few loose logs on top. When I backed the Mule up to the trailer I had installed a truck crane on the trailer and could pick the bundle out of the Mule and swing it into the trailer bed. This actually worked pretty well. The issues were adjusting the positioning the 4-500# load in the trailer to fit things properly. Usually one or two loads a day would fall apart as I lowered them in the trailer or tried to maneuver them, so I would pull the straps off and easily re-position them as individuals to fill in holes between the other bundles. The system worked 'OK' but I wondered just how much effort or time this was saving me. About halfway through the season I just started handloading and foregoing the straps. I didn't seem to suffer for it at all except for a lot more pinched fingers and small cuts. Also, by that time I had delivered the orders I was stocking for separate delivery runs out of the area. Now I was cutting as much as I could one day, leaving them on the trailer, and delivering them the next morning directly to the client's drop off point. Which brings me to the next consideration of how much heavy physical work I could handle.
 It was clear very early on that I was exhausted every night I got home after collecting logs. My daily routine was to get up early, leave the house before 6am dive a little over and hour to the Country Store, have a good solid sit down breakfast, drive another 12 minutes to the property, pull the Mule out of the weeds, load my tools on, fill the water jug and get to work by about 8am or so. I would work until 2 or 3pm, empty the Mule of tools and stow it in the weeds, bind down the load, head to the store, get a milk shake (they make the best!) for the drive home, and get home by 5pm. I was shot. But I still unloaded the trailer each night (when I was stocking logs). The heat would suck the life out of me. I took breaks when I needed them, but maybe not as much as I could have used, drank a lot of water and some gatoraide, but those first few days my legs were shot, which did improve over the course of the job, but not that much. The point is, there was no way I could do the run up to harvest day after day. I needed a day in between, so I sharpened my saws, picked up any supplies I needed, mowed the lawn, sent and answered emails, and did other stuff on the 'off day' that was 'light duty', and as I mentioned above, I did deliveries on that off day also. There was also the weather to work around. I don't think I avoided any hot days, but steady rain was not worth the trip. Mud was an issue at some points, but I found other paths and could work around that.
 One other consideration was 'hired help' which we all know is not really available, but I was curious how this would effect productivity. Assuming any helper would not be marking and cutting his own trees, that would mean a laborer only to be doing log loading and helping move brush (I had to be at least a little neat and keep all trails clear). So I was lucky enough to get a friend help me one day so I could test the theory. It turned out to be the best log count day (72) but not double the average day. He also turned out to be pretty good at finding 'right sized trees' of the right species, another plus. He turned down the payment I offered him that I thought I could afford (a little over $15.00/hr), but after I pushed him a little he took half to take his wife out to dinner. He enjoyed the day and tried to get another day off to work with me, but it didn't come together. Another side benefit was having a second person with another set of eyes. This is really not a small thing. If I got hurt, he could help. Also I confess that there was a little stress working alone and having my head on a swivel for bears. These woods were so dense that one could be on you within 20 or 30 feet before he broke through the brush. I saw fresh sign on most days, which was more than enough to keep me 'alert'. I don't like carrying a sidearm when I am working, but I kept a little something in the Mule glovebox. At times it felt very far away. Having another set of eyes and ears took a load off.
 So those are the most of the operational considerations I can think of. Of significance is that I did try to research anyone who had done this sort of thing and found nothing. All the people I talked to were selling logs off their own property as part of their normal thinning operations, or folks who got logs from a 'one off' opportunity. It seems nobody does this as an ongoing routine and thus, I had to come up with my own plan. There are no tools or machines designed for these purposes, and looking at the money I can see why. I also noted that the information available on the internet is really not accurate at all when it advises people on getting started in growing mushrooms. They say you should be able to buy bolts for $1.50 to $3.00 each. I can tell you nobody sells logs that cheap. Some of those documents have been updated since I called out the authors on it. That information got me off to a bad start, but once I figured it out and corrected, it got a little better. All my logs sold for $4.00 each this year, but that will likely change if I go forward. 

 In the next post I will lay out the numbers and results of my little experiment. Let me know if you have any questions as we go along here. Sorry this was so long, but I am writing this for folks who come along later and might be interested. Might as well share the knowledge I worked so hard to gain for good or bad.

[WV Sawmiller]

Tom,

   Excellent write up and I look forward to reading the next chapter even though I doubt I will ever be a mushroom logger. It does make me remember the old statement when working for big companies about being treated like a mushroom - kept in the dark and fed BS.

    As to the help situation are there any colleges nearby offering forestry related degrees? If so have you contacted them about possibly getting interns or such from them. My son studied forestry and he had to complete a related internship for credit before he could graduate. Many of his counterparts did such internships for free but he was lucky enough to get on with the state putting out gypsy moth traps and got paid for his work and got intern credit at the same time. It looks to me like the work you are doing would easily qualify for such an internship and might be a source for labor for you. I'd check it out if you have not done so. Good luck.

[cutterboy]

Tom, this is valuable and practical information. You approached this like a scientist doing a research project. Thanks for sharing this information.

Looking forward to part two.

[Old Greenhorn]

Howard, when I was contacted by Cornell, which started out as a 1,000 log order and wound up at 300 logs, I asked them this very question and was immediately met with all the reasons of 'why not', "paperwork, steady employment for a period, my certifications, and most of all liability and insurance", not to mention how slow academic institutions work to sanction a new, if temporary, position. There was also a researcher with the cooperative extension who wanted to document the actual work, time, and costs associated with harvesting logs for resale. She was (is?) trying to get a grant to do the study. She went dark when I sent her an email to come on out and that I was actively cutting and hauling. Funny thing is, she lives only about 20 minutes away from where I was working, so it couldn't have been better or easier for her. I put out the word and found a gal who was a certified arborist with considerable forestry experience, no longer doing that work, but was interested in finding an excuse to work in the woods again. The problem there was her schedule and I would have to find her a place to stay or camp for cheap (free). Given that my work schedule was every other day, that couldn't work out. But the search continues for some young person just looking for extra cash on a day basis. I figure a 14-16 year old person would be just fine and it would be a fair learning experience. My grandsons aren't growing fast enough. But, as I said, the search continues because finding such a person could be a game changer for me. These things take time and a little luck.
Cutter, I figure the only way to really know how you are doing is to keep an accurate accounting and in this case the numbers revealed a different story than I would have thought if I hadn't kept them. I don't like 'unknowns' especially when they can easily be 'knowns'. Hence this exercise. Collecting the data meant a little extra work at the end of each day and trip but it was very much worth it and I realized that although we have here on the Forum a fair amount of growers and folks who have at one time or other harvested mushroom logs, none stuck with the log harvest portion for a period of time. This is much like what I found as I made calls and talked to a lot of folks who also tried it. I wanted to know why they all tried different approaches but all came to the same conclusion: "It's just not worth the time". I wanted (and still do) to put a fine point on that 'why' question and find a solution if I could. Remember, I am retired and don't need to bring in $1,000/week to get by. I am just trying to make enough money to keep my family and household 'whole'. SO I don't set a goal on how much I have to make an hour and how many hours I have to work each week. That would be setting foolish goals that just make me feel like I am not producing enough and have to work harder and longer to get by. SO I do it backwards. I do the work and then when done I look at what I made for the time and effort I put in. If it's too low, I adjust the next time. I don't know what I would do if it's too high, that hasn't happened yet. ;D

[Old Greenhorn]

OK, I am going to take a shot at the numbers here. I am not posting the spreadsheets because I am no accountant and my format is likely a little odd, but it works for me. I kept records on all expenses, sales, and other cash flow. I did not track small expenses such as drinking water, meals on the road, etc. I also kept records on 'non financial indicators' such as driving hours and average time to collect each log (working time per day/number of logs per day). I kept track of my actual hours working and the days dedicated to this project. A work work day cutting counted as "1" whereas a local delivery counted as ".3" which is pretty accurate.  As mentioned in the previous post, I did not put a dollar value on my time (as an expense), instead I just added up the 'profit' then divided by the number of working and driving hours I had put in. This gave me an hourly result which I can use as an indicator of how I did. Hopefully this makes sense as I lay it all out.
________________________________
General numbers:
Total miles driven: 1,617 (this includes to and from worksite as well as deliveries, not driving in the woods)
Driving time: 47 hours (includes stops)
Working days: 14.3
Working Hours: 74 hours 15 minutes (actual working time harvesting or loading/unloading)
Total actual Hours: 121 hours 15 minutes (working + driving time)
Logs harvested: 556 (539 were sold, the rest given as 'extras' or shorts, or slight defects)
Average time per log: 7 minutes and 14 seconds (this is the working time per day divided the number of logs that day)
Time per log including driving time: 13 min. 5 seconds (same as above number but with that days driving time included)

--------------
Financials:
Total Expenses: $711.49 (this includes everything)
Fuel Expenses: $361.30 (included in the number above, but interesting to note separately for later discussion)
Sales (income): $2,540.84 (includes logs, sawdust, and any delivery charges collected)
Income less Expenses: $1829.35 (simple balance)
Income per hour: $15.09 (income after exp./total hours driving and working)
------------------

Discussion:
 The one metric I didn't collect was the number of trees I took. It means little, but I am curious. If I had to guess, based on a rough guess average of 5.5 logs per tree, that comes out to about 100 trees. 
Another important note is that I did not pay anything for these logs, I had a gracious benefactor and these trees will likely be cleared out anyway as part of the land rehab. They are also too small for a commercial firewood operation to deal with. Still, consider that if I paid $.50/log it would take another $278.00 off the bottom line and drop the hourly income to $12.80. Something to think about. In order to make it an ongoing concern, the landowner has to get something out of it besides a warm fuzzy feeling. It doesn't always matter because it is not a lot of cash, but it is something I need to work on.
 I started the work on June 1st and made my final delivery on July 2nd, so a month dedicated to this project.
 I will hold the 'what if' speculation based on these numbers for the next post. The numbers are what they are and I found them revealing. Yes this is a very small operation with low dollars compared to what others do here. With the exception of one day's work from a helper, all the work was done solo.
 In the next and final installment I will cover lessons learned and discuss some of those 'what if' options as well and talk about how I would change things if I do it again.

[Old Greenhorn]

Well, it's a gloomy day outside and I want to finish this off while it is still fresh, then move on. So here is the last part: what did I learn, what would I change, and what will I do going forward?
 Some will recall in the beginning I was hot on getting a bigger trailer to do this work more efficiently but through no fault of my own could not find one in time. I have a 5.5' x 10' trailer and thought that was too small/light to be efficient. As it turned out, it was pretty much perfect. You see I could not manage to get much more than 70 logs on my best day and that fit just fine in this trailer. With the exception of one delivery of 130 logs I never overloaded and frankly a bigger trailer would have been overkill. I will still get that bigger trailer, but for other reasons, not these logs. Now I can wait until I find the right trailer for the right price.
 I had added a truck crane on the trailer (expense @ $194.77) and although I used it for the first half of the season, I didn't need it in the second half. No regrets on that one time expense and it has other uses. It did also allow for a longer work day when I used it, but I would like an improved version where I could adjust the boom length under load.
Improving the bottom line:
 If you look at the numbers a few things stand out.
 The obvious one is my log price. If I were to raise that to $5.00/log and not change anything else, it would put me at $19.50/hr and at $6.00/log it would be $24./hr. I asked my clients in a round about way how they felt on the pricing and the vast majority (all but one) thought my price was more than fair (one said I was pretty cheap) and they all had trouble finding a source until they found me.
 Another big one is driving time. If I took out the 47 hours of driving time it brings me to $24.60/hr. Now of course some driving is required no matter what and there are deliveries (which are paid for as a separate charge), but still the number goes way up. The only way to reduce this however is to find a log source much closer than 50 miles away. Not really do-able, but worth looking at for sure.
 Along with driving time is the fuel cost, which you may have noted was just over 50% of my total expenses at $361.00. Any amount I can bring this down would go directly to the bottom line. Again, this means either finding a closer source, taking more logs per day (less trips), or in the extreme, staying on site until larger loads are collected. My truck averaged 14mpg over the course of the month and I don't think I can do any better on that point.
Improving the process:
 Try as I might there was nothing major I could find that would make a fundamental improvement in productivity. I tried to think of ways to mechanize some of the work and little came to mind that wasn't overly expensive. True I did work on technique a lot because this allowed me to work longer and safer with a little less effort to get the logs off the stump and on the trailer, but these things were not very significant, except in how tired I felt at the end of the day. I found that cutting several trees in one area at the same time, then bucking them, then loading seemed to work best rather than doing each tree complete one at a time. I also got better at finding trees and figuring what I would get out of them. I finally settled on the perfect tree being about 9-10" on the stump with a pretty straight stick. I could get 8 or more logs out of these and leave a short firewood log besides. Early on, I adjusted my '4-6 inch' log diameter to include logs that ranged from 4" on one end (3-1/2 on the other) up to 7-1/2" diameter because I just could not leave that stuff as waste on the ground. Beyond what I have mentioned, I don't think I can come up with too much else to work on or improve but part of the reason I am sharing every detail is because the folks here are dang smart and often point out things I have missed. I am hoping that happens again.
 I learned and used a lot of information from this thread during the planning and execution process, so I am hoping that there will be a little bit more coming out yet. Also, for anyone looking into this, I wanted to put something down that was close to a comprehensive reference because I could find nothing else out there. Somebody has to do it.
 I can say that if I had not kept the records I did and reviewed them, I would likely never do this again. I say this because it 'felt' like I worked really hard and made almost no money at it. But looking at the numbers tells me that for my purposes I really didn't miss the mark too badly. The plan was pretty solid, there were few surprises along the way, nobody got hurt, and I sure did not 'lose money'. True, it was very tough on my body, especially the heat, but I did manage to harden up along the way and tune a few new muscles. My legs eventually got stronger and I think those 'off days' for recovery helped that to happen, it was like an extreme training program without paying for a gym membership.
Going Forward:
 I don't yet know if there will be a 'next season'. It depends on a log source first and foremost and that is a seasonal thing in itself. (If it wasn't for Barge, I never would have had this season at all.)  For sure, my price is going up to at least $5.00/log, that's a no-brainer. If it is too high for some folks, I can't help that, they are welcome to find another source, I will even recommend one who is cheaper. The higher  price will improve the bottom line and may also serve to reduce the large orders, which is also fine. I need to keep this work do-able in a short period so I can get back to other stuff. This is side work, not the main gig. So for now I am calling it a season. I do have two possible sources for small quantities of logs that are close to me and both have offered to let me look. So I plan to take a half day here and there and walk these properties during full leaf out to identify and flag possible trees. This gives the owner a chance to see what I would take if I could BEFORE I cut it and we can have a conversation about what works for their land management plan. These trees would sit marked and when I get a call for logs, they would be ready to cut during the proper season. Saves me time down the road finding them again too. If I get no orders, or drop the business, it is easy enough to pull the flagging off and if the landowner wants to keep a particular tree I have marked, they can remove the flag.
 I hope the contents of this thread helps somebody else down the road. I am no expert, but my research shows that there are no experts in this tiny niche, I also could find no information anywhere on the internet that is even close to what is in this thread. If you've found it, please share it here. Certainly you won't find a full financial study such as this so I took the effort to include it and share the knowledge. I hope it benefits somebody.
Tom

[Nebraska]

Tom I have a feeling you have moved the mushroom log industry  forward  a bunch. by honestly putting your analysis of your harvesting processes here in a forum where it will come up for others find.  
I would think that you could get short term interns to help, if you look in the right places, not sure what the insurance  you may need for them would look like.  A young person  would learn bunches just being in the woods with  you. Running a chainsaw, good felling practices, tree identification etc. 
 Where you can make this part of a TSI project close to home with less road time will make this look much better...
 I do think your rates should be a little higher, maybe a break at l 20 logs or less, 20 to 50 logs (a days time) 50 and up (multiple  days). 


Still liked the analysis  and write up, thanks enjoy the holiday.

[Nebraska]

I have been amazed sometimes with a handful  of folks who got "interns" to come to the farm and give free labor for the learning experience of ....(a list of things remember  over the years) 
Milking  cows
Berry Harvesting/ canning 
Dressing chickens
Building  paddock fences for rotational grazing
Installing active solar arrays
Straw bale gardening
There is more  but those  are the ones that came to mind quickly. 

My guess  is there are urban types willing to come experience  the real world just have to figure how to connect with them and not end up with too much headache.

[doc henderson]

well you did not loose money, that would really have sucked.  for the trips, a larger trailer with a helper would drop that.  If it was a kid, and you paid 10 bucks and hour, (provided they were as hard a worker as you, we can dream)  then you would more than break even.  most businesses rely on making more per hour than they pay the help.  might be a great grandson experience, but sounds like as they age and grow so will you so that may not work.  what is the state of the tree you need for harvest and how long and how must/can the "perfect" logs be stored.  will your bigger clients be stocked for a few years now, or do they anticipate a similar or larger order next year.  I am sure the larger order are for resale or for value adding to a course as you described.  at least then the price of the log going up 2 bucks can be passed on to a consumer.  seems like you could price larger logs more (maybe you did, but I do not remember)  I assume you can place more spawn, but also a heavier log for the less physical growers, or balcony grower in the city.  could consider price by the the pound of wood, if indeed a larger log produces more end growth.  this would help spread the cost of the trip, and effort out.  I assume the mushrooms rely on the sugar in the sap wood.  from what I have seen in nature, most "srooms" grow on the top or side of logs.  can a larger log, be split in half on the mill, and have a nice bearing surface (flat bottom)  and grow on the top.  what is the needed moisture in the log.  I assume high, as these are fresh.  I have had logs lay in the yard for 6 months and still sprout a bunch of small branches in the spring, with no roots.  I know you know this and it is spread throughout the thread, but I am just thinking out loud, and these are questions for you along with my thoughts, and I personally do not need these answered for me.  so in other words, do not feel you have exhaust yourself to re-answer these questions.  The other benefits, are health benefits of getting out and getting in shape.  you will likely see your stamina in the shop improve after all the wilderness boot camp you just completed.  You also seem to have gotten some satisfaction from the process of the study.  you also seemed like an old guy on vacation with video of the boats, and harbor, and very much enjoyed the problem solving process.  It is also hard to calculate the value of the contacts you made.  part of the efficiency may be when this is old hat for you, and you can get logs for milling in addition to mushroom logs so the trip is more profitable.  then the larger trailer will come in handy.  sounds like the visits to the forest (and the store for breakfast) were what you might enjoy, if you were dinking around trying to find something to do.  as your timber stand business grows, it may be the link as you describe, finding closer trees, and will be able to show, in a thought out plan, how the cull trees may not go to  waste.  I am just up, and work night 3 this evening.  we had a crazy day yesterday, with folks not coming in and worked with all kinds of nurses from around the hospital (not being used to the ED documentation and pace).  so this woods business, sounds kind of nice.  It can always be worse, and it can always be better.  oh well, to paraphrase, next year is another year!  

[Old Greenhorn]

Well, this is yet another reason I spent 3 hours typing up the summary, you guys bring up some great points as usual.
 Nebraska, I had forgotten to mention pricing structure in my summary, but yes, I need to add a premium for small orders such as 1-15 logs or so, those cost more in service time than they are worth. After 15 logs it is pretty much a wash. I do bunch all the orders together, so each cutting day I am maxed out on whatever I can get. If I had to do a run for just one client, like they guy who will call me tomorrow now that I am done and want 25 logs, yeah, the price will have to reflect that. Overall the will be a price increase if I go forward, no doubt.
 Rolling this into TSI or property improvement work is ideal, but tough to do. Usually these are the type trees I save out for future growth, but if I ever hit one that is overgrown like this last was, then yeah, I'd love to save out those logs.
 Interns, yeah well.... When Cornell first contacted me with their 1,000 log order, which whittled down to 300 I asked about student help and hit a wall, all kinds of paperwork and it would take too much time and it is not regular work, and of course, the insurance issue. But your idea of getting urban folks involved is an interesting angle that I must explore. I am always asking and looking for young folks however I can get them and perhaps learn them up a little. I'll keep pecking at it.

 Doc, I won't address all your points but for a few... That larger trailer buys me nothing until I collect over 120 logs/day (see discussion above). Log storage is a problem and after a few months they become firewood because the natural bacteria has entered the logs and will compete with the mushroom spores. Nobody has an exact number on this but it is widely understood that they need to be inoculated as soon as possible after cutting, 2 weeks or less is best. I stack the logs like cordwood and cover them with a piece of geo cloth to keep the sun off. If we don't have rain for a while I hose them down to keep the moisture up. The geo cloth lets the water run through. I think the longest I had logs 'in stock was perhaps a week and a half before I got them to the buyer. Most were delivered within a few days of cutting or even 24 hours.
 I wish I could charge more for heavier logs but that makes it really complex to sort on price. Yes, you can get more spores on a larger log, but a larger log will also produce for a year or two more than a small one. Most residential growers ask for smaller logs, most commercial growers don't want any 4" logs at all asking for 5-8". It's a tricky dance because I don't want to waste wood. There are also many growing styles. Some stand the logs up against a wire strung between trees, some stack like a cabin fir pattern, some plant one end of the log in the dirt. Some water the logs by soaking, some by watering (sprinklers) and some let nature do it. With all these variations, it is hard to find one working supply plan.
 Yes, this project had intangible benefits, that which does not kill us.... And I did add a bunch more contacts that may have other purposes down the road. All this is part of my daily goals anyway. No, I didn't lose money, but I didn't expect to either and would have bailed if it got that bad. But I did push the limit on what I could do in a day by myself and was a bit out of my comfort zone at times.
 If I could execute one of the fundamental improvements I listed above I would be in OK shape, if I could execute 2 of them I would be in good shape going forward. But it will never change that this all hinges on find trees I can take that have good access and that little nit is the Achilles heel on this whole thing.

 Thanks for the comments guys, they keep me thinking and improving.

[Nebraska]

Would a parafin sealing on the ends extend the shelf life of freshly cut logs thus retarding  bacterial entry, cold storage at say 35 degrees  might be useful too... :  I know not likely practical just waiting  for folks to show and wheels turned...

[WDH]

One sobering realization I discovered when I officially formed a LLC and declared myself as a business was the impact of insurance.   Especially commercial vehicle insurance.  I realized that if I used one of my personal vehicles in my business to haul stuff, my regular auto insurance would not cover me in the event of an accident because I was a business.  The cost of commercial vehicle insurance was shocking and continues to be shocking each year as the cost goes up as I renew it.  Be sure and check that your insurance coverage is in effect if are using your personal vehicle to go get or to haul or deliver mushroom logs. 

[Corley5]

  A guy we know on the other side of town grows shitakes on logs in his woods.  We traded some syrup to him a couple years ago for some fresh and dehydrated.  They're good.  Not as good as morels but good ;D
  In unrelated business dealings a processer of extracts from other naturals expressed an interest/made a suggestion to grow mushrooms using sawdust from my firewood processing.  I forget the name of the fungus but it wasn't one containing psilocybin.  It's not an edible mushroom but is further processed for the compounds it contains.  They're grown from hanging mesh bags that are kept damp.

[KEC]

A thought comes to mind: Instead of supplying a quantity of logs to someone who grows mushrooms to sell, cut and sell them one or 5 at a time to a hobby grower who wants their own mushrooms. Maybe build a rack with a roof over it out near the road and advertise. Let them come and get the logs and pay more than you'd get to delivery to a commercial grower. Or maybe find a retailer willing to carry the logs and sell them, much like some guys have worked out arrangements with retailers to sell bundled firewood.

[mike_belben]

market them as moon phase enhanced, aura inducing chia pets to moonbat hippies around the world. kissed by gaia and infused with lavender and all natural essential oils.  "ships to you" on facebook marketplace.  slam dunk.  

[Clark]

OG - First of all, kudos to you for tracking everything!  I agree with your sentiment that many would take a look at the general numbers and write this off as something that isn't worth their time. How they value their time is their own business but the smart businessperson evaluates with pen and paper what the potential assets and liabilities are before throwing it all into the bin. You've gone well beyond that and deserve a round of applause from us and everyone that will follow you.  smiley_clapping

As a former business owner I can offer a few insights and suggestions but like most advice, its probably worth what you paid for it.

It would make for a better baseline if you used the IRS mileage rate for your vehicle and trailer. It would make the financial analysis less profitable but would include the total cost of vehicle ownership.

I think your price needs to go up. If you're the only game in town then guess what? You get to decide the pricing structure. Price/pound makes a lot of sense and is likely the best representation for the growers of what they are buying but presents significant hurdles to implement. Have you thought about pricing it by diameter? Three different color paint sticks in the field would be an easy way to mark everything without adding significant cost or time...if you're customers aren't picky about size.

When it comes to continuing the process I think there are several options. One would be to get in good with consulting foresters. They likely have clients that could use your services if you're selling this as a pre-commercial thinning. The science of thinning overstocked trees is pretty well established. Your service would give them bigger trees faster at no cost (or direct payment) to them. 

The other option would be with State or County property. Granted, you get into more issues with insurance, workmen's comp, etc but the reality is they likely have stands of oak that would benefit from your work. That is a higher hurdle to jump but has the potential for a bigger reward. 

Clark