Might be going back to work with my own company

Meadows Miller · July 08, 2011, 07:10:53 AM

Gday

Sounds Like a goer ;) ;D if your sub contracting to one off the companies make sure they are giving a good rate for the amount of work involved and the big boys are always interested in deals like these their plan is to come in say they will take a huge volume for next to nothing if not be getting some govt kick back for getting involved then pay contractors next to nothing to do all the hard work ;) How much are you looking at putting into gear for your operation if its not a rude question ?? with your Feller you would want a hot saw with an accumulator for the small stuff it looks like you would be harvesting ( a bar head will be slow in small stuff ) that way if you are doing segragated logs sawlog and chip you can bunch and accumulate different drags for the skidder ;)

There's afew other options too ;) one is you could do intergrated sawlog and biomass and make a bit better return on the sawlog side of it if you have a buyer ;) or you could put in a specialized small log sawmill and take everything from say a 4.5" dia up and process it into stuff like pallet grade lumber as there are 43 pallet companies listed in AZ on a google search i did then sell the biomass/pellet companies your waste in bulk ;)
You have to ring low grade for every extra dollar you can get out of it to make money that way your still taking a log that you would be getting payed bugger all for taking something off higher value out off it then getting the same for the biomass fuel ;) ;D I know just the machine for the job for under $150k turn key and you could have a mill that will pump out about 65 ton 27500bft sawn per shift + ;) PM me if your interested as Im keeping most of the details to myself on this one untill I get one ( or few ;) )here in Australia there is some good gear out there you just have to know where to look and what you are looking for and at ;) Id even think of coming over there My self and setting up for a job like this ;) I just lack the capital myself atm Mate

;) :D

Regards Chris

Rocky_Ranger · July 08, 2011, 10:59:17 PM

Mad Machinist, I sent your contact information to Rufus this morning - maybe he'll contact you soon.

Mad Machinist · July 09, 2011, 12:18:37 AM

Chris,

If this has anything to do with a scragg mill, ain't no way in bloody hell I want anything to do with it. My grandfather had one and it was a mankiller in more ways than one. If your talking about the WM system, then things could get interesting. I know alot is said about sapwood and it being reaction wood, but looking at some of the so called construction grade lumber here it really makes me wonder. I built an arch in a house I owned before i moved here to AZ, and needless to say I didn't have to bend any wood. I just looked through the pile and found two peices that were real close.

Rocky_Ranger,

Thank you again for your help. We'll see what happens here. I spoke to a venture capital company a little bit ago and I have the funding to get what I need. Did some homework on the players up there and I may have a chance at subbing on this. I have a few feelers out.

I talked to my brother about this and we may just buy a grapple and be slaves for about 6 months so we can get this off the ground without owing anything to anybody. Just no sure how this beat up 37 year old body of mine is going to like running a saw 10 plus hours a day. He may be a better equipment operator than i am, but he can't touch me with a saw.

Anyway, I off to see if the dirt i dug up today has any gold in it. How bad is that, I prospect to relax.

Cedarman · July 09, 2011, 06:56:38 AM

What about running the small logs through a portable doweling machine to make posts? You sort the logs by size and change cutting heads as needed to make different size posts. I think it can do 4 or 5 posts a minute. Peelings, well , you would have a lot of them.

Mad Machinist · July 16, 2011, 12:54:49 PM

Sorry for the absence everybody, but I have been busy working on this. After talking to my brother, I am developing a business plan that, unfortunately at this time, involves only the two of us in order to get equipmenet paid of as soon as possible. At this point it looks like we are going to buy a used grapple skidder and the two of us are going to work our butts off for the first year in order to build capital to buy equipment outright so we are not beholden to anybody.

The level of support i have received from the current logging comapnies here as well as the few sawmills here has been absolutely unbelievable. There has been no cold shoulders or doors slammed in my face. They have given me the encouragment I need to get this done. Some have even offered tentative contracts depending on my business plan.

I was invited to a meeting earlier this week concerning the Wallow Fire and the upcoming salvage sale. Current estimates are around 125,000 acres of salvage and nearly 1 billion board foot of lumber. Some of the trees destroyed in this fire are huge. 40+ inches in diameter.

Anyway, I need to get back to work.

Rocky_Ranger · July 16, 2011, 10:16:43 PM

Mad, were you there at the salvage meeting in Eagar town hall on Friday? I was the one taking the call in the other room after rolling out the RAVG and salvage maps.

Mad Machinist · July 17, 2011, 12:24:11 PM

No i wasn't, but there was a group of Forest Rangers that came down here to give us a rundown of what they are trying to do. I have a map of the burn intensities so I was able to follow along on what they are proposing. Some of this is going ot be in pretty rough terrain.

Unfortunately, our watershed flows through some of what was burnt and the watershed has been utterly destroyed. the Frisco River has been rendered devoid of life from the acidity of the ash and the amount of sediment and debris in the river. Whene it rains up there in the high country, the river here runs the color and the consistency of chocolate syrup.

Mad Machinist · July 17, 2011, 03:20:55 PM

Ok, we got our equipment list settled. I would like for you guys to review it and tell me if you see any problems.

For saws, both my brother and I stil have our Husky 394's and 385's. They have all been "hotrodded". Lots of power and very high chain speeds.

Going to use a grapple skidder to collect and skid tree length to the landing.

At the landing, we will have a small to midsized excavator with an AFM combi head to handle the processing, sorting, and loading chores. I lke the versatility of this as I can change over to a bucket if need be to take care of any problems.

There will also be a chipper there to handle the slash which will put directly into the chipper during the processing stage in order to save a little time.

After about a year, there will be a tracked feller buncher replacing both my brother and I in the woods to take care of the felling chores.

We talked about one of us running equipment, but quite honestly, neither one of us will trust anyone else to be hand falling in the woods with us. We worked together for so long that there is an automatic trust there. We were never far apart so we could watch each others backs.

The biggest thing we talked about was the two of us cutting all morning then skidding the trees out and the two uf us processing them in the afternoon in order to keep this small. I'm not sure about this as it seems that it would take to much time. What do you all think?

Maine372 · July 17, 2011, 04:38:14 PM

i like your AM/PM strategy. even working by myself i usually drive out into the woods, and then hack and whack for about an hour while its cool. get everything i can down without making more work for myself. then when its hot out i can mostly ride the skidder.

the only issue i see is that there will be no one on the landing to load trucks. not sure how your handleing your trucking but i know its a pain to get lined up. let alone if you only have somone on the landing in the afternoon.

Meadows Miller · July 17, 2011, 07:37:21 PM

Gday

Its good to hear everything is looking like it pan out for you and your brother Mike ;)

With falling in the morning and skidding,processing and loading it will leave you feeling alot better too and the afms are a good head there is alot of them working in pine and hardwood down here Mate ;)

Regards Chris

Rocky_Ranger · July 17, 2011, 10:05:41 PM

Quote from: Mad Machinist on July 17, 2011, 12:24:11 PM
No i wasn't, but there was a group of Forest Rangers that came down here to give us a rundown of what they are trying to do. I have a map of the burn intensities so I was able to follow along on what they are proposing. Some of this is going ot be in pretty rough terrain.

Unfortunately, our watershed flows through some of what was burnt and the watershed has been utterly destroyed. the Frisco River has been rendered devoid of life from the acidity of the ash and the amount of sediment and debris in the river. Whene it rains up there in the high country, the river here runs the color and the consistency of chocolate syrup.

It's gonn'a get a whole lot worse before it gets better, we're only seeding about 80,000 acres and heli-mulching about 25,000. I flew the burned area last Monday and I doubt there are any fish left in any of the free-flowing streams. Lakes are pretty much fine (except the ones we drained), and the fishes will return in better waters.

Mad Machinist · July 17, 2011, 10:58:44 PM

Yea it is pretty bad. Endangered species pretty much gone here are: Spikedace and loach minnows, Apache trout, probaably the chiricahua leopard frog , and quite a few others I can't think of right now. Spotted owls lost 73 out of 145 nesting sites. Mexican wolves are kind of an unknown at this point. That no touch policy is sure working out isn't it.

If this wasn't so pathetic, I would be laughing my butt off. My neighbor is a memeber of some elk society thing and I told him what I was up to. Well he proceedes to go on a tirade about how I am going to destroy the forest and his favorite hunting spots andall I want to destroy everything. He flipped about loggers destroying all the habitat up there.

So after he was done, I told him to wait a minute and came back out of the house with the burn intensity map I have and explained to him what it meant. Once he understood, I asked him what habitat are we going to destroy? I asked him how many thinning projects his society has put an end to. He got real embarrased. Then I proceeded to tell him that those projects may not have stopped this fire, but thye could have very well reduced the intensity of it.

Then I explained to him exactly what we are going to do and how it will only take decades to recover instead of centuries. He finally asked how he could help. I told him for right now support us getting in there to do the salvage logging and thinning and get ready to plant a whole lot of seedlings.

Anyway back to work. This business plan is making me crazy.

mad murdock · July 17, 2011, 11:40:22 PM

Quote from: Mad Machinist on July 17, 2011, 10:58:44 PM

I told him to wait a minute and came back out of the house with the burn intensity map I have and explained to him what it meant. Once he understood, I asked him what habitat are we going to destroy? I asked him how many thinning projects his society has put an end to. He got real embarrased. Then I proceeded to tell him that those projects may not have stopped this fire, but thye could have very well reduced the intensity of it.

Then I explained to him exactly what we are going to do and how it will only take decades to recover instead of centuries. He finally asked how he could help. I told him for right now support us getting in there to do the salvage logging and thinning and get ready to plant a whole lot of seedlings.

Great form Mad Machinist!! 8) The truth wins every time. We can get people to wake up one person at a time, and before you know it, we can be the force for some real change, or rather , return to common sense, and utilize the resources for the good of the current generation, AND leave it in better condition for the next one. Way to go, and best of luck on your (ad)venture

duke · July 18, 2011, 12:33:22 AM

Well If You ever get stuck for an operator look me up, never ran a dangle head but here that it only takes a few hours maybe a day or two then you are on the game. That sounds like a great way to harvest. Where I live they usually thin and leave the stuff on the ground as fuel for the next big forest fire. I have always said that this stuff can and should be harvested. Its just that the big guys don't make thier massive profits in short order,LOL
Marcel

Lohok27 · July 18, 2011, 11:36:06 AM

Wow, Machinist, not only did you tell the truth, but you actually found one not in denial when faced with facts and reality. Good luck on your venture. I spent time on the Navajo res. when I was a kid and have fond memories of the area.

Ron Scott · July 18, 2011, 05:43:32 PM

What and where are your markets for the salvaged wood?

Mad Machinist · July 19, 2011, 09:42:33 PM

Ron,

Right now they are going to the two sawmills close to the area, but thye can only handle about 20 MMBF a year. We have a few smaller one scattered around but not enough to handle what is there, if we can even get it all before it goes bad.

If you know of any, I'm all ears. Alot of people could go back to work for awhile on this if it goes forward.

If I remeber right, when the Rodeo-Chediski fire ripped through some of the same area, the Apache Indians shipped alot of their salvage timber out by rail to somplace in Georgia. May have to do that again, if the market will take it.

Coon · July 20, 2011, 01:42:44 AM

I commend you for what you are doing here Mad Machinist. It is not an easy task to handle a project of this size. 8) 8)

Boy, if you could ever get the mentality of 1 out of every 100 environmentalist guru's, in the area, on the same page like you did your neighbor this world would be a whole lot better off than the direction it has been going. Putting people back to work helping out the environment IMHO is one of the best things that could be done.

Mad Machinist · July 20, 2011, 10:30:43 PM

coon,

It does get kinda confusing at times. Especially when I am trying to find my own markets for materials.

It really stinks though that a few people are going to find out what happens when you refuse to hire a minority contractor when you are on a government contract. I would have left it go, but what was told to me by a friend who works for this contractor, wasn't exactly called for and they are going to pay for it. Making the comment that a woman owned company, especially when it is owned by a women veteran, has no business in the woods is uncalled for. It has already been forwarded to the proper people. Last time I heard of a general contractor doing something like that, they lost the contract and were run off site.

Anyway, I am looking into other areas for use of the wood.

Mad Machinist · July 25, 2011, 08:01:04 PM

Got that mess straightened out. It wasn't the owner that made the comment but someone who works for him. The owner found out about it and called me to apologize. We had a long talk and unfortunately he told me that they do not have enough of work to bring anyone else in. Which is perfectly fine with me. I do not want to take anybodies job.

It did all work out though. I signed on with Snowflake Power to harvest biomass for them starting this spring. So it looks like I am going back to work with my own company.

Rocky_Ranger · July 25, 2011, 10:28:01 PM

I like the sound of that - we'll try and keep you busy.............

Mad Machinist · July 26, 2011, 07:09:17 PM

Still working out some numbers, but if it works out right I might just bring a full blown chipper and become a travelling road show. Once I get the final numbers in, I might just run around buying the small dimeter stuff and shredding it for the powerhouse and maybe a few pellet mills who are interested.

Maybe we'll all get lucky and this will become a self sustaining business.