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Building "sawhorses"

Started by Engineer, May 31, 2004, 03:34:50 PM

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Dave Shepard

There are a couple of reasons I'm going with a "framed" horse. I don't like slapped together horses, I don't want any wiggle in them, they are pine, and will weigh nothing, and they aren't going to take that long to make. I have always been a firm believer in buying or making tools to last a lifetime. I don't want to look at something thats been cobbled to work just ok for the rest of my life. When I get a permanant shop setup, I may even make some out of oak, you really don't have to move them that often, as they will always be in the layout and cutting area of the shop. I guess I have an aversion to light horses, especially the ones made from those cheesy clamps and two by fours or the folding metal ones.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Jim_Rogers

I have made some light weight horse, as you can see in other posts about saw horse heights.
And some of them were put together with nails. These horses loosen up right away in normal timber framing use during workshops. And they were repaired with screws.
And every set I made after that was made with screws.
Some of the set made with screws have loosen up as well, and will need to be repaired or replaced.
These horse are several years old as least, but still having to repair or replace something you made once is a bother.
If you make it right the first time then it's done forever and you won't need to repair or replace them later on after some years of use.

I have traveled to many shops and most have heavy equipment to move timbers around and when needed the use these "fork lifts" to move the heavy horse, should they be that heavy that they need to use a fork lift, that is.

And most shops have them small enough to be strong and stable without having to move them will fork lifts.

Each shop makes them the size they need and or want, and then they are used until they figure out that this size is too big or too small and then another set is made.

If you have a set that works for you, that's great.

It is also great practice to make the mortise and tenon joints and prefect your skills....

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Engineer

Three years ago when my timber frame was started, the guys helping me built three sets of horses out of rough-sawn lumber.  Not timbers, but rough 2x6 and 2x4.  They have spent most of the time since then out in the weather and they are still pretty solid.  Each horse is about 36" high and 5' long and I have have had well in excess of a ton of weight on each pair.  I can move them around by hand OK but I prefer to pick them up and move them with my tractor.  They are all screwed together with deck screws and reinforced with Timberlok lag screws.

Dave Shepard

I (almost) finished* my first set of ponies today. I'll get pics on Monday. All I've got to do is make some pegs. It seems that the bottoms of the feet will need to be pared flat, or even a little concave, as timbers do not dry square. I think these will be my boring ponies. I may make a set about 4" taller for chiseling/layout. They aren't any heavier really than the hemlock and plywood horses I made for measuring the frame, but are much sturdier, even without the pegs.





*Mooseherder take note. ;)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Mooseherder

 :D :)
Good job Dave.  I need to start some new projects also.  How's the saying go?
"Begin, the rest is easy".
I ain't feeling it. :D

Gorbster

Jim, can you send me the PDF you have of your timber framing sawhorses?

Steve Gorby, sgorby@columbus.rr.com

I bought some tools from you last year before going to Heartwood school, and I met you there last year.  Thanks.
Wood-Mizer LT40 HD since 2004, Logs To Heirlooms.
Custom and consignment furniture, using YOUR tree, my saw, and my woodworking skills. The tree your grandfather planted and your kids climbed in can become your grandchild's bedroom furniture or your family kitchen table.

t f flippo

WoodenBoat magazine Mar/Apr 2013 #231 has a good insert on sawhorses.
I think the suppliment is free on their website.

Enjoyed the posts,thanks to All.

OlJarhead

Now you've gone and done it!!!

I've been looking for something else to build (as if I needed that) for peeling logs and working on beams etc at the cabin and the idea of having something I can also use as a work bench is, well, something I like!

So, when I go test the mill I'll have to mill up some 6x6 beams I guess! lol

And I'll prolly have to buy more tools (oh darn!) :)
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

Dave Shepard

I made a little progress on my horses later in 2010, but not much. :D There's actually a funny story that goes with those horses. In February of 2010 I started restoring the first of two Dutch barns. I never got around to finishing the ponies, I just used the nailed together ones I mentioned earlier for almost all of the work. I did build a Dutch trestle during the second restoration. Anyway, I had almost completed the first restoration in late October of 2010, and had an entire gable laid out in the shop to scribe in some repairs, and we were having a meeting with the owner of the barn. My boss was there, the owner, his architect, and Jack Sobon, who did all of the design work and drawings for both barns. The owner asked me what my previous timber framing experience was, a question I hoped he wasn't going to ask.  :D I told him how everyone on the internet told me I should try a pair of ponies to see how I like framing, and pointed to the one assembled, but not pegged pony, and the pile of unfinished pony parts. He asked why I didn't finish, and I said I got interrupted to restore his barn. I guess I like timber framing. :)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

S.Hyland

I'm in the heavy horse category, at least in the shop. These horses are 9' wide, with 6x8 maple on top, larch 6x6 elsewhere. They are rock solid! I've had 3000 lbs of W Oak on them, and there is enough room on them to work 5 or 6 timbers at once with room to flip them. 

 
I had to get a shot from the bottom, the top was full o' beams!
"It may be that when we no longer know which way to go that we have come to our real journey. The mind that is not baffled is not employed. The impeded stream is the one that sings."
― Wendell Berry

The Creative Hand

I made a pair of saw horses out of ash that was cut in my neighbor's yard. I appreciate all that people posted on this thread to get my ideas going. I'm good at making things overly complicated so instead of just a normal mortise and tenon (and also because the top piece was smaller than I would have liked), I made the top joint a shouldered bridal joint and the bottom mortise and tenons with shoulders as well. I also didn't start with square stock, so that made the joinery more complicated. This was my first timber framing project, and I think it turned out pretty well, considering. Here are a couple pictures. I still need to trim the pegs and finish up the detailing but I wanted to use them to plane the white oak bench top I am making.



  

 
ARTISTE - ÉBÉNISTE - CONSERVATOR

Brian_Weekley

Welcome to the forum.  That's quite the slab of white oak!  Nice looking ponies too.  They should hold it!
e aho laula

Dave Shepard

Welcome to the Forum! Do you have a forklift to move those things? ;D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

LewAz

http://macmullin.net/wp/timber-saw-horse/ We are in the process of building these. Awesome trestle horses

Brad_bb

I've been working with another framer lately.  I'm preparing for a big project where we need to set up a lot of timbers to work on.  I've made cribbing ponies in the past, but he said the problem with cribbing ponies is that you are always stepping over the cribbing timber and can get to be a pain in the butt.  On the other hand, free standing heavy timber horses are just that - heavy, plus they take a lot of time to make if cutting mortise and tenon.  So he gave me the following picture of saw horses he uses at his shop and I determined the angles from the pictures.  These are a lot easier to build from 2X material, lighter to move around, strong, and allow freedom walking around timbers. I found a guy with 60 used 2X8's from something that was torn down.  I de-nailed, re-sawed, planed, and am just finishing 28 saw horses.  He used actual 3"x6" stock for he backs.  I glued up two pieces of the 2X material and ended up about 2.75 inches thick after planing.


  

 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Brad_bb

These sawhorses have been awesome.  Best I've ever used.  Best combination of strength to weight.  I can load them up with oak timbers and no problems.  Not bad from reclaimed 2x material.  Using a compound mitre saw made the compound cuts for the legs go quite fast.  We have used these horses for two frame raisings and kept them onsite as the regular framers use them alot too.  Rolled a lot of hardwood timbers on them too - de-nailing reclaimed timbers.



 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Czech_Made

Saved the pictures, thanks for sharing.

Quote from: Brad_bb on January 20, 2015, 02:51:28 AM
I've been working with another framer lately.  I'm preparing for a big project where we need to set up a lot of timbers to work on.  I've made cribbing ponies in the past, but he said the problem with cribbing ponies is that you are always stepping over the cribbing timber and can get to be a pain in the butt.  On the other hand, free standing heavy timber horses are just that - heavy, plus they take a lot of time to make if cutting mortise and tenon.  So he gave me the following picture of saw horses he uses at his shop and I determined the angles from the pictures.  These are a lot easier to build from 2X material, lighter to move around, strong, and allow freedom walking around timbers. I found a guy with 60 used 2X8's from something that was torn down.  I de-nailed, re-sawed, planed, and am just finishing 28 saw horses.  He used actual 3"x6" stock for he backs.  I glued up two pieces of the 2X material and ended up about 2.75 inches thick after planing.


  

 

swmn

I have one of the design Brad_bb shared far enough built to think I am going to like these.  I still need the end aprons on this one, but I intend to carve those up this morning.  

Rather than bang out 20 or 30 of them like Brad did I took this as an opportunity to make some guides and chisel out some mortises.  

I have found 4x6 at my place is too big for any of my vises and too small to work on without clamping somehow to something.  I have just about outgrown my inexpensive Asian holdfasts and plan to upgrade to a pair from Crucible tool when I have a big enough pile of shekels.

 



Yup, not bad.  Once I figured out the short leg of my 14-76-90 triangle was 0.374" I did the layout on the second one at 3/8" kerf, pare, done.    Now all I to do is complete a pair.



 

 

Brad_bb

It looks like you're making it a lot harder than it needs to be.  Or are you doing that on purpose?  To make my version all you need is a mitre saw, and a table saw.  To make the 20 degree angle on the back to mount the legs, you just set your table saw blade at 20° and 2 inches high and run the back through on each side.  I'm assuming that and you were just being fancy?

Same thing on the cross tie for the legs.  Just cut the top at 14° on the table saw and you're done.

I see the compound angle on your legs isn't done yet.  That is why the mitre saw is so fast.  You can pop out the legs and cross ties super fast.  The first time I made these horses I borrowed a friends dewalt compound sliding mitre saw and stand.  I whipped out the parts in no time and then went and bought my own saw.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

swmn

Actually Brad I work with hand tools in my shop to let off steam from the high pressure job that pays the bills.  I don't even own a table saw.

I am leaving the legs with the points on them since I am going to use these outside on relatively soft ground, I want the feet to sink in and hold still.

If I was making thirty of these, absolutely I would run a table saw and a miter saw and get it over with.  Tonight I get to go home from work and chop some more mortises while the cares of the day drift away with each mallet blow.

Thanks for the design idea, I have wanted saw horses that could take holdfasts for several months; I really like the first one.

Brad_bb

I never thought of making the backs thicker like that to hold a holdfast.  That might be good for cutting braces- to hold them in place.  Before I just used a clamp to clamp the brace to the horse.  I have 4 nice blacksmith made hold fasts.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

swmn

Quote from: Brad_bb on August 14, 2019, 08:56:37 PM
I never thought of making the backs thicker like that to hold a holdfast.  That might be good for cutting braces- to hold them in place.  Before I just used a clamp to clamp the brace to the horse.  I have 4 nice blacksmith made hold fasts.
Yup.  Ought to be handy for braces too.  I was specifically thinking of 4x6 timbers for Sobon shed rafters since I can get them from a local saw mill, but 4x4 braces ought to do fine under holdfasts as well.  I am, ummm, not amused with the life expectancy of big box home store F clamps.
I thought your back would be thick enough to hold a holdfast, and it is.  
I made a doohickey out of plywood tonight with mine too.  When our house was built one of the bath tub drains runs not beside or between but actually through a floor joist.  Leaning on the sawhorse is the old water damaged patch (our floors are held up by the 2x10 "equivalent" I- joists), on the horse is the new one I banged out with circular and jigsaw without ever having to reclamp.  I just got it lined up so all the pencil lines were off the horse back, whackamole, and cut.


 

btulloh

Quote from: Brad_bb on August 14, 2019, 08:56:37 PM
 I have 4 nice blacksmith made hold fasts.
I'm envious. I need to find a blacksmith to make a couple for me. My storebought hold fasts just don't have the right mojo. 
HM126

swmn

Quote from: btulloh on August 14, 2019, 09:26:28 PM

I'm envious. I need to find a blacksmith to make a couple for me. My storebought hold fasts just don't have the right mojo.
Mine didn't when new either.  One thing I did was make circumferential grooves in the shafts by holding 60 grit sandpaper in my fist, wrapped around the shaft, while twisting.  Not spiral grooves.  Circumferential.  Twist, relax, shift, tighten, twist.  If it helps a little do it some more.  Mine look pretty rough, but they work now.

btulloh

My main problem is the arms are too rigid. Not enough spring. I thing it's a problem with the material more than the shape. I could probably cut a few grooves with an angle grinder but I'd just like a couple that were made right to begin with. Lee Valley has some that probably work well. Something about having some made by a blacksmith is attractive though. 
HM126

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