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Author Topic: Non-Native Trees, Etc.  (Read 609 times)

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Offline JRHill

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Non-Native Trees, Etc.
« on: January 21, 2021, 03:21:11 PM »
I'll set the stage: we own 160ac of (off grid) forest land. All of it is in the WA state reprod program except for the small cut out where our home and out buildings are located. Needless to say we had to create a detailed forest plan and have it approved. It was approved and we work it. We are in our 8th year of drought here. There are spots of some pest kills but fortunately not so bad on our place but there are some around us. Fire risk is moderately high.

Enter a new land owner with 40ac. He is all about improving his plot. That's the upside. The downside is all manner of digging, road building, etc. and the PLANTING OF NON-NATIVE TREES. 1000 each of two species on 40ac. There are other issues as well.

We are a bit weirded out with this next effort from the neighbor. He always knows someone who knows someone and his next idea is wonderful. We are concerned that our efforts to maintain our land can be complicated immensely. Invasive species? New opportunistic pests? On and on. Lastly, much of what is done on the neighbor's place is a function of grants, etc.

We want to cultivate relationship but its getting hard.

Any advice?

Offline Tacotodd

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Re: Non-Native Trees, Etc.
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2021, 03:38:58 PM »
Try to make sure that he ďknowsĒ that he can somehow attend a school to seek out the knowledge that he needs to continue doing what heís doing, or so that he will at least have someone else (thats more knowledgeable than him) put the RIGHT kind of idea into his head and maybe, just maybe, heíll see what he, or you maybe, are doing incorrectly. 

Iím not trying to be abrasive, just trying to give a fair shake .
Trying harder everyday.

Offline JRHill

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Re: Non-Native Trees, Etc.
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2021, 04:20:12 PM »
Mr. Tacotodd,

I can't say that I've gone without learning experiences. I have made mistakes too.

I appreciate your input. You know of a person who only accepts information that fits with a certain mindset or world view? Anything outside that is unacceptable? That is what we are pondering.

Still trying to be a good neighbor 'cause neighbors are important.

Offline Tacotodd

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Re: Non-Native Trees, Etc.
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2021, 04:38:28 PM »
Yes JR, Iíve known people like that and please accept my sincerest apology for it ruffling feathers, because thatís not what Iím all about. But sometimes playing devils advocate is a tough job!

Just try to, carefully, slide into conversation about a school for him to go to. Especially the free kind. Do YOUR research first. Present that information to him in such a way that heís almost totally ready to go without further prodding on your part needed. 

Maybe then he will have an eye-opening relivation. Maybe work, maybe not. Itís most likely NOT going to work if you donít help it along.
Trying harder everyday.

Offline BradMarks

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Re: Non-Native Trees, Etc.
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2021, 07:14:12 PM »
I'll chime in. JR you speak of Non-Native Species, as in not in your region?, such as planting Larch too far west? Or trying to establish Redwood farther north than its present range?. These are still native species, just mislocated. Or something more of non forest species like Leyland Cypress for blocking visibility. Or something different altogether?, like from another country.  Everybody likes to experiment. You did mention grant money and I know enough about that to offer that the plan(idea) has been reviewed and approved in order to receive the grant. It would help if you identify the non-native types, I may have a different opinion knowing what type.  

Offline JRHill

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Re: Non-Native Trees, Etc.
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2021, 01:02:05 AM »
I'll chime in. JR you speak of Non-Native Species, as in not in your region?, such as planting Larch too far west? Or trying to establish Redwood farther north than its present range?. These are still native species, just mislocated. Or something more of non forest species like Leyland Cypress for blocking visibility. Or something different altogether?, like from another country.  Everybody likes to experiment. You did mention grant money and I know enough about that to offer that the plan(idea) has been reviewed and approved in order to receive the grant. It would help if you identify the non-native types, I may have a different opinion knowing what type.  
Thank you TocoTodd and BradMarks. They tried some other species a year or so back. They all died. Now he is to plant 1000 Afghan Pines and 1000 Stone Pines. Our area naturally supports valley, scub and hybrid oaks in selected areas/soil. But mostly we have Doug Fir and PPine. And lots of california lilac/ceanothus which is a PITB but sure smells wonderful in the spring and holds in some erodible areas.

Offline Tacotodd

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Re: Non-Native Trees, Etc.
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2021, 02:31:47 AM »
Off topic here JR, thatís one FUNNY avatar! 
Trying harder everyday.

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Non-Native Trees, Etc.
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2021, 09:57:07 AM »
50 trees/ac?  Doesn't sound like a lot of trees.  

I looked up the trees, as I haven't heard of either one.  The Afgan pine is said to be perfect for desert areas that are hot and dry.  The stone pine is also called the Italian stone pine and is suited for dry areas.  Both of these trees seem to be more suited as windbreaks or screens.  

A lot would depend on the purpose of the planting.  If its for timber value and value with the native wildlife, I would think the Doug fire and P Pine would be good choices.  The timber value for Afgan and stone pine would be considerably less, since they are outliers in the marketplace.

If the planting is for more domestic issues like screens or barriers, they might be okay.  I would think there are other local trees that might be just as beneficial as the non-native species.  They would probably grow better.  The success of these trees will have more to do with your climate than other factors.  I didn't see that they were harbingers for disease and insects other than what you already have.

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline farmfromkansas

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Re: Non-Native Trees, Etc.
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2021, 11:49:40 AM »
If you plant trees that are suited for a dry climate, and get a wet year or 2, chances are they could all die. Problem here in Kansas, is during the dust bowl, government brought in these chinese, or siberian elm, and they just come up everywhere.  Also same for the cedar trees they use in windbreaks still.  Birds eat the seeds and they come up all over our grass lands, so we have to cut trees every year, and the elm is very hard to kill with chemical, cedars can just be cut below any green.  Our yard has a lot of cedar, my wife just mows it off, but to rid ourselves of it, have to take a tool and cut it off below the lowest branch, and that is tough. Too bad the officials did not have a cedar and elm bred that would have sterile seed, that would save millions in cost of controlling these invasive species.

Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

Offline RPF2509

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Re: Non-Native Trees, Etc.
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2021, 04:30:32 PM »
As to non- native trees mention that local mills generally accept only local species so if he wants to make money off them someday he'll only get firewood prices.  P- pine should do fine in drier locations.  Losing all the trees the first year should tell him something like try a native species.  Not sure how grants work in WA but generally they specify planting species native to the area.


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