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Belted vs. all-metal band wheels

Started by Ga Mtn Man, February 05, 2012, 01:17:10 PM

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ladylake

 

 The advantage of tight belts is they don't get tore up as easy by broken band, very rarely and they never get any crud under them.  My BIL who works for a auto suppy place told me he sells 3 B57 belts a week to a mill near me but they do run that mill 40 hours a week.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Southside

I easily had 30MBF on those belts and plenty of broken bands to go with it. I tried NAPA belts once thinking I was saving a dime, they hardly lasted a month on my 35.
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

SawyerTed

Metal vs belted band wheels?  My .02 worth is the difference in end product is negligible.  Both work just fine.  If belts causing shaking/vibrating was a big issue, most manufacturers would use metal wheels.  Mills with belted wheels aren't vibrating apart and if head shake on a cantilevered head was really a problem, shaking belted wheels would just make the problem worse.  Head shaking isn't an issue.

To me one manufacturer is trying to differentiate their product from others by creating a perception that belted wheels are inferior.  They aren't - they are different.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

WV Sawmiller

   I hate when they do that. If a manufacturer says "We feel this design works better with our system" I am fine with that. If they say "This is why our design is better" I have a problem with them. Reminds me of the "4 Post" vs "Cantilever" design disagreements. 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Mike W

Agreed, seems more of a sales pitch then any performance issue one way or the other, like comparing apples to oranges and claiming one is better then the other, rather just different as mentioned already.  

Gere Flewelling

Before I decided to purchase my first and only band mill I spent a lot of time researching the many differences between the manufacturing and design.  YouTube vidios are the best source I found as I could not travel to shows and demo's all over the place. Manufacturers who invested the time and effort to explain their design and features are few and far between. Wood-Mizer and Cooks probably scored the best in my opinion.  I settled on Cooks because both Tim and Steven Cook did a very thoughtful presentation of why their steel wheels, bearing, and roller design all combine to not only reduce blade vibration, but blade heat as well.  It just made sense to me.  In the two years I have owned my mill I have sawn some large white pine, hemlock, frozen beach, frozen red oak, and lots of ash (ash have all died around here).  I use a mix of onroad diesel fuel and used type f transmission fluid for lube.  I have experimented with sawing slow and faster than I suspected I should have mostly to test the vibration and heat theory.  I have broken a few blades that had developed stress cracks when I didn't change them soon enough.  I have the habit  be it good or bad of checking the temperature of the blade as soon as it stops.  No matter how warm or cold the day may be, I have never found a saw blade on my Cook saw to be anything but cool to the touch.  I had one that pushed off the back of the wheels and bound up in the 24" hemlock but was still cool to the touch.  I have no experience with belted wheels.  Do the blades heat up on them?
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scsmith42

Wow - resurrection of a 7 year old thread!
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

redbeard

 Starting my 8th month using the Cooks AC 36 with steel crowned wheels.
We are very happy with performance.
We also ran the TK B-20 for 12 + years and tried all the different automotive belts loose and tight,   even the Neo-preme Sullfolk saw orange belts for a few years.
Always had some sort of vibration.
We considered changing too steel crowned Wheels years ago and now wished I would have.
The Cooks mill runs razor straight and using a petroleum lube we never get any build up of pitch.
 Blade heat is not a factor as mentioned.
I believe blade life is longer also. 
We don't push the blades past dullness so don't know how far a blade will go before breaking.
My first couple a years when I was learning the ropes on the B -20 we broke more blades than I dare too mention due too pushing blades beyond their expectations.
Blade Life is really good using the AC 36 now.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

Tin Horse

I've also debated putting the steel crown wheels on my Enercraft. However it has 24" wheels and I've had no problems. Both belts are loose and easy to change. The band stays cool and very little breakage. No build up between belt and wheel. I now also run the Cooks guides. They do build crude between the belt and band at times but a shot of diesel fixes that. I would  guess wheel diameter plays a big part in much of this.
Bell 1000 Wood Processor. Enercraft 30HTL, Case 580SL. Kioti 7320.

ladylake

  Jeff.  What size wheels does the AC36 have, I think 26" or so which would help with breaking lades vs 19" wheels..  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

redbeard

They are 26" wheels , I always thought they would be noisey and wear blades out quicker but it's quite the opposite.
Steve I believe the 19" steel wheels were originally on the B-20 earlier models. I always had issues running .055 blades causing premature cracks and blade breakage on the 19" wheels, but alot of other guys seem too like that thickness and get great production.
On the Cooks mill the .055 x 2" wide  Cooks Magnum  blades last along time Iam on number 4# sharpenings and have only ran them through the setter once. 
IAM about half way through my 60 blade supply I got with the super package.

Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

ladylake

 
 I wouldn't even think of running .55 blades on 19" wheel.  My .42  4° blades saw straight until dull and use all the power my 29hp diesel has.  Plus they last a long time and are low cost.  Only in 20" wide spruce they will get a slight ripple.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Deese

I definitely don't produce the board footage many on here do on a daily basis, but I do saw almost every single day. Sometimes 200bf, some days 2mbf. I like to run BRAND NEW 1.5" .055's 7° on my lt40 when on a portable job if I have several good offbearers. Key word here is SEVERAL hard workers because I'll work 2 men nearly to death sawing good syp logs. I laugh at myself reading some of my older posts thinking I was sawing fast back then. The blades do break prematurely though. But it's worth it if time is limited. When sawing solo at "home", I usually just run .045"s. I like using the b56 belts because I saw lots of syp and pitch buildup under the belts is a constant annoyance with the 57's. Recently switched blade lube from soap/water to straight diesel. Sure it's hard on the belts but that's why my nearest WM dealership is on speed dial. No more pitch buildup issues on blade body or elsewhere. I've always wanted to try the all steel wheels Cooks has to offer, but just out of mere curiosity. Anyways, just my insignificant little 2 cents. Still have so much to learn.   
2004 LT40 Super 51hp w/6' bed extension
Cooks AE4P Edger
Cat Claw sharpener/Dual Tooth Setter
Kubota svl75-2 skidsteer w/grapple, forks, brushcutter
1977 Log Hog Knuckleboom loader/truck

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