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Author Topic: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor  (Read 2544 times)

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Offline monasheemonster

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Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« on: October 28, 2018, 10:27:12 AM »
Hello
I知 considering purchasing a Holder A50 tractor with Trelleborg forestry tires to mount a tractor winch on for selective logging. Anyone out there know Holders? They have  articulating steering, front and rear ptos and 3pt hitches. 50 hp but small in stature, 3m long, 2m high, 1.5m~ wide. 3500lb~
Also had diff lockers.

I could get it for a fair price. Parts supply is the limiting factor. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2018, 10:51:24 AM »
I dont know them in person but from youtube, they are a potent machine.  My experience with mini tractor logging and sled pulling and ATV skidding is that it is not the size or horsepower, it is the weight, weight distribution and tire floatation, as well as cable angle and pulley height that determine whether you can keep the rear loaded and still have the front end stay down.  

If youre too light in back the tires spin. If the log is flat on the ground its 10x harder to skid.  So you raise the log butt up and that loads the machine for rear end traction... so heavy that it doesnt have enough power to spin the tire (wide as you can on the rear rubber or the log will sink you into the ground.)  Now that you cant spin a rear tire, youll lift the front end.  So you add weight up there and now the log skids or the machine breaks.  

The articulated holder 
/ landini etc design is perfect for a mini skidder.   I do not suggest chains unless you are on ice.  My experience with home made ring chains on a garden tractor was terrible, they churned the soil and it spun holes much easier with chains and tore the ground up.   What worked best for me was a very wide flat tire (just like sled pullers run) and as much weight as possible on it.. Fluid plus ballast iron all around.  The tires almost acted like a paving roller and repaired the churned up ground as i continued to drive in the same tracks, compacting a lane. 


My experience is you can pull about 6 to 8x more on a trailer in one pass than you can skid with the same machine on the same ground. Braking comes into play downhill with trailer though. 


Does that machine have a ground speed pto or 540/1000?
Isaiah 48:10

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2018, 03:08:14 PM »
Had a friend that had one
Pulled all his wood for a log home with it
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Offline monasheemonster

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2018, 06:22:27 PM »
Thanks for the replies. I think this machines strong suits will be access to tight areas for hopefully low empact logging. I work in the forestry industry in B.C. and see a lot of ecological impact, at times very severe.

This A50 has very wide tires for its size. And I have already consider fluid weight in the tires but appreciate the comment of all the weight you can get on it. I wonder what kind of wheel weights could be found.

The pto is 540/1000, correct me If I知 wrong but they have selective speeds.

The design is the tractor put the engine in front of the front axle, i believe part of the design was trying to keep weight up front for relatively heavy implement use in the rear.


How do I post pictures?

Myholder.de is a good website forum if you can read German. They have quite the following in Europe. They are also quite sophisticated. Lots of moving parts, planetary axles, multiple gear boxes ect

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2018, 08:56:43 PM »
If you can drive a Holder to winch the trees, the site must not be very steep terrain.
Holder Tractors: Product range    (a50 appear to be part of their past)
Holder Tractors: Classic Holder      parts for the old ones

What do other selective logging systems are  used in your area? Helicopters?  (koller/ yoder/ cable on the less remote sites in places where they are less likely to lose money?)

Offline monasheemonster

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2018, 10:28:10 AM »
hi Riwaka
Thanks for the links. I wrote Holder in Ontario and they said they do have some parts but it痴 limited they can of course get parts from Germany.

I work in industrial logging so majority is clear cutting. Some companies are leaving more non-crop tree trees standing in the land as canopy and habitat and climax crop trees for seed trees, but that is rare. They are also very susceptible to blow down.

As for selective logging, it痴 mostly private land owners. Heli logging is mostly commercial and rare in the interior .

Next question regarding the A50 is there any experience mounting a front end loader or skidder type blade? If you search google
There are numerous pictures of holders specifically built for skidding with HD blades up front. My main question is the carriage mounting style for a articulating tractor? Any input is appreciated.

Offline monasheemonster

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2019, 06:50:05 PM »
Afternoon everyone

I am overdue for an update on this thread I started last year. I ended up acquiring the Holder A50 forestry tractor!! It has been a fantastic rig for low impact selective logging and thinning in tight areas. I took the advice from posters on machine weight being the main concern with such a small skidder and had the Trelleborg 400/60-15.5 tires filled with approx 80 gal calcium chloride. With the factory 4 wheel spacers back on and the additional tire weight plus the skidding 3pt attachment weight and cab/engine protection weight the unit has become an absolutely different animal in the woods. It痴 very stable with an immense amount of traction. The Holder tractors are articulating for steering but they also articulate torsionally, essentially all 4 tires stay planted in all terrain. I adapted a HD 3/8 snow blade to fit the front 3pt hitch. I will be adding hydraulic rams for blade curl to increase ground clearance for the blade and to maximize materials handling when piling or stacking. I did have the master cylinder fail on my first job with it this fall but had quick and efficient parts delivery from Holder headquarters NA in Ont Canada. How can I load a few pictures?

Offline monasheemonster

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2019, 08:20:51 PM »
 

 

 

Offline btulloh

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2019, 08:29:02 PM »
Nice. 

You figured out the picture thing. Well done. That痴 a hurdle for many new members.  ;D  There痴 a good reason why it痴 done this way. Pictures on this forum will always remain in the posts. 
HM126

Offline Gere Flewelling

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2019, 08:44:15 PM »
There is another option for a narrow gauge all wheel drive articulated tractor.  It is called the Collins Workall.  It is a hydrostatic drive tractor that does not use front and rear differentials. It has a drive motor at each wheel making it low profile but with considerably more center ground clearance than the Holder.  It has front and rear three point hitch and pto.  It has a body on the rear half and can also have a hydraulic winch and roller fairlead like a skidder. There is also a grapple or blade option for the front lift.  You can see information on it at DEADLINK.  I watched one of these tractors skid a large pine log straight out over 12” stumps that the Holder tractor at the same demo had to zigzag around due to the lack of ground clearance.  The Collins Workall is made in the USA.
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Online Old Greenhorn

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2019, 08:44:56 PM »
Man, tat is a SLICK little machine. I would almost kill for something like that, it's the perfect size. Good luck with it.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
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OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2019, 08:48:13 PM »
Looks like that will sneak through the woods.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline Pine Ridge

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2019, 11:24:35 PM »
Good looking machine !!!
Husqvarna 550xp , 2- 372xp and a 288xp, Chevy 4x4 winch truck

Offline East ky logging

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2019, 05:38:48 AM »
Good looking machine. I like the guarding on it. 

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2019, 06:31:30 AM »
There is another option for a narrow gauge all wheel drive articulated tractor.  It is called the Collins Workall.  It is a hydrostatic drive tractor that does not use front and rear differentials. It has a drive motor at each wheel making it low profile but with considerably more center ground clearance than the Holder.  It has front and rear three point hitch and pto.  It has a body on the rear half and can also have a hydraulic winch and roller fairlead like a skidder. There is also a grapple or blade option for the front lift.  You can see information on it at www.collinstractor.com.  I watched one of these tractors skid a large pine log straight out over 12 stumps that the Holder tractor at the same demo had to zigzag around due to the lack of ground clearance.  The Collins Workall is made in the USA.
@jeff  @Gere Flewelling   the link is not valid and if you search for the collins workall the site seems to be taken over by a troll/fisher type attack that launches multiple flash events.
Liking Walnut

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2019, 06:42:36 AM »
@monasheemonster Very much appreciate the update and pics.  I did a quick search and found 6 available in the cascades of CA if anyone wants one with a snowblower (seems the most common use).  Your guarding and forestry tires are the key in my view.  I take it that the guarding was already done?
Liking Walnut

Offline monasheemonster

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2019, 08:26:20 AM »
I actually fabbed up the side window guards before doing the job I知 on now. I知 glad I did because It saved a window the first day leaning into a tree. I welded them out of expanded and angle iron. The roof has plexiglass with expanded on top and then I added a few cross braces of angle for pro against falling trees. It also holds a Jerry really well. 

You do have to keep your stumps down in height as the Holder does have low ground clearance. It is amazing what you can get through with manipulating the articulation. At full turn the tires on the inside are close to touching. 

The Trelleborg forestry tires were fortunately on the tractor when I bought it. 

The previous owner included European chain choker hooks, which I bought some 80 grade 9/16 chain for. They make for easy handling and with the slots in the 3pt skidding bracket I made they are quick to hook up and adjust. 


 

Offline Metaloon

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2020, 05:27:03 PM »
That thing looks great! 

I'm just across the border to the southeast of you, something like that would be perfect over here. If you don't mind me asking, where did you find it and how much did it set you back?

Offline Iwawoodwork

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2020, 10:29:26 PM »
That machine is great looks kike it would be goon in 3rd growth or thinning, or on the home ground where shorter logs are ok.  Looking at your set up I wonder how a small rubber tired arch behind it would work to get the front of the logs off the ground, that would lessen the weight, pull  on the rear end rear end.

Offline monasheemonster

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Re: Experiences: Holder A50 Tractor
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2020, 11:33:28 PM »
Hi everyone 

Thanks for all the kind comments. I知 happy to tell that I have picked up a parts machine last week. It痴 a c500. The price was right so I took home what was left of it. I知 hoping the pto clutch is good in it and that the remaining planetary is good as well. I値l be splitting my A50 next month to fix the pto clutch and do Center pin bearings and seals where needed ect. I can稚 wait to get the forestry winch working behind that unit. A friends father has hired my partner and I to play 32,000 trees on their woodlot and he mentioned today he壇 like to hire the holder to do blow down salvage after we池e done. We池e in the midst of the planting job


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