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Redmax GZ5000

Started by SnoJetter, October 22, 2021, 12:33:50 PM

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SnoJetter

Same as...the Jonsered 2252? Husky...???
There's a listing on ebay for this saw NIB for $380, power head only I believe. Not sure if this saw is still available at a dealer anymore or is current. 

What's the experts' opinions: Good price? Good saw?

I've got plenty of 50cc saws, but there is a little part of me that thinks it would be nice to have a brand new red saw before they are gone for good.

Real1shepherd

I've heard good and bad about Redmax....mostly negative. They are not the saws Jonsered were except for the consumer saws that Husky & Jonsered put out before Jonsered became Redmax.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but aren't they mostly clam-shell design? Are you OK with that?

Kevin

SnoJetter

I've got nothing against a clamshell...have several in the stable that I was able to pick up pretty cheaply. But if I buy new, I'd go for a pro grade design. I was thinking the GZ5000 might be similar in design to the GZ7100 (2171/72) or the GZ9000 (2188).

Earlier this year, the local box store had a cache of 2245's and 2250's that tempted me, just to have one of the last Jred branded saws.  But I decided against it not wanting to spend the money on a homeowner saw.

sawguy21

They had an excellent reputation never had the marketing in North America which is unfortunate. The GZ5000 appears to have the vertically split crankcase and separate cylinder, it was touted as a pro saw.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

rburg

I believe the gz 5000 is the jred 2252. If so, it is a split mag case just like the 2172, but also has carb control, auto tune in husky language.

SnoJetter

I appreciate the input.  Does anyone have a reference if $380 is a good price for a new saw of this type?  It "seems" to me it's not a bad price...but I also haven't been in to a dealer to see what a new saw goes for nowadays.

lxskllr

Looks good to me. Echo's "pro" 50cc saw sells for $470. You're getting a bar at that price, but echo tends to be cheaper than the big two.

Spike60

Not a bad price at all Jetter. The current Husky 545 is roighly $200 more than that.

Gonna leave the RM decals on there, or switch to Jonsered decals? :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Tacotodd

Trying harder everyday.

rburg

The only new gz5000 I have seen was $520 I believe. If I was in the market for a 50cc saw, I would consider 380 a good deal. 

SnoJetter

The best price I found from an on-line search was $499.  Whether saws were actually available for that price is another matter.

Hmmm...hadn't really thought about swapping decals.  That would be just as legit as if it were an actual 2252, other than (potentially) the date of manufacture.  @Spike60 are decals readily available?  And are they easily applied such that they would last without pealing up and falling off after cycling between 20 below to 80 above year after year?

The same seller has a GZ9000 for $900.

Oh, I should ask: I'm not familiar with autotune other than running one tank of fuel through a friend's 2258.  Anything I should be aware of in terms of operation or maintenance?

Spike60

Decals are still available, and easy to apply. All the factory did was create red max decals to stick on a Jonsered; you're just returning the saw to it's original state.  :)  

Don't worry about the auto-tune; just run her. 

The dealer price in my 2021 red max program is $380, so certainly not bad there. (The MAP price is $539.)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

SnoJetter

I feel like enabling is alive and well right now!  I walked myself up to the edge of the cliff, and you guys are more than willing to shove me over the edge. Thanks guys...I think.  Now on to a couple more questions. 

Is the autotune picky about the fuel mix? I like to run a hair rich at 40:1 on everything.  If autotune balks at that, I'd hate to need to keep two separate mixes on hand.  Hey @weimedog do you run 32:1 in your autotune saws?

Purely hypothetical, cuz no MN woodcutter needs an 80+cc saw, but how does that $900 price tag on the GZ9000 compare to a new 372 or what a 2172 would have gone for?  You know, asking for a friend...

Tacotodd

Quote from: SnoJetter on October 26, 2021, 07:41:38 PM
I feel like enabling is alive and well right now!  I walked myself up to the edge of the cliff, and you guys are more than willing to shove me over the edge. Thanks guys...I think.  Now on to a couple more questions.

Is the autotune picky about the fuel mix? I like to run a hair rich at 40:1 on everything.  If autotune balks at that, I'd hate to need to keep two separate mixes on hand.  Hey @weimedog do you run 32:1 in your autotune saws?

Purely hypothetical, cuz no MN woodcutter needs an 80+cc saw, but how does that $900 price tag on the GZ9000 compare to a new 372 or what a 2172 would have gone for?  You know, asking for a friend...
The last time that I heard, @Spike60 preferred 40:1 and @weimedog preferred 32:1 & no problems with the auto tune for either.
Trying harder everyday.

Spike60

Walt and I do run those mix ratios in the AT saws with no problems at all.

$900 for that GZ9000 isn't as good a deal as the 2152. I sell the comparable 390 for $1050. $875 for a 372 and $900 for the 572. So, $900 isn't much of a deal.

The upcoming 592 might end up being an exception, but I've never been into "new" big saws, and I own the store. The need for more than 70cc doesn't arise that often, and I like my Jonsered 900's and 288's for that. Few other classics; XL925, ProMac850. All were fun projects. A big saw in the fleet does come in handy when you do need it. And the project route is a great way for anyone to own one without having to spend $1000.
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Tacotodd

Bob, I just got the information from one of Walts videos, and I knew that AT would handle the different mixes without guff (but you have to follow the proper procedure for the saws to properly "tune" for it) ;D
Trying harder everyday.

SnoJetter

Well...I made the purchase.  We'll see what shows up at my door.  I'll keep you posted.  If this one checks out, I'd like to buy a second one for my father-in-law...so don't go and buy out this guy's inventory just yet ;D

I would have trouble justifying the GZ9000 anyway.  I haven't even put a tank through my 2165 (upgraded to a 2171) after my recoil exploded.  That one will manage any big stuff that comes my way.  Plus, I need to find a 24" bar for it.

SnoJetter

Here it is. Showed up on my doorstep before lunch today. Was a long afternoon at work waiting to get home to have a look in the box.  I've owned exactly one brand new saw in my life, and that was 20+ years ago.  This thing is so shiny and pretty, I almost hate to put it to work.  Anybody else have those reservations?  I thought the 2100-series were sexy saws...these 2200's are growing on me!

I'm thinking an 18" bar will pair nicely with this saw.  I've seen some old stock Jonsered badged bars on Ebay.  Are those of decent quality?  Might they be Total?  Or what recommendations would you all have?

A small thing I was very impressed with: captive bar nuts!  Now that is slick!

@Spike60 is there a Jonsered decal "kit" or are they sold individually?

One last thing, the seller had a "make offer" provision on his listing.  We settled on $350.  Shipping was free, but tax brought the total up to about $375 so I'm very happy with that.






Real1shepherd

I was running Stihl Ultra @50:1 in all my old saws. I never had any trouble, but last yr decided to run everything 40:1. Peace of mind and unobtainium saw parts drove my decision. As far as new saws, if they say 50:1, you're probably good....but 40:1 isn't going to foul anything or cause coke/carbon issues.

The difference between 2.6oz per gal and 3.2oz per gal isn't going to break anyone's bank.

Kevin

Woodfarmer

That's a beauti of a saw, where can I get one?

Spike60

Decal numbers....

Starter: 579 546 601

Clutch cover: 578 037 501

Shows still available, but backordered for a month. Any Husky dealer who does online sales, (not me  :)) can order them. 
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Tacotodd

Quote from: Woodfarmer on November 02, 2021, 07:13:26 AM
That's a beauti of a saw, where can I get one?
Just look online for your nearest Redmax dealer, but buy it locally from a dealer because "stuff" happens and he'll make it right.
Trying harder everyday.

Spike60

Problem there Todd is that most Red Max dealers won't have it and cam't get it. And wouldn't sell it that cheap if they had one. The Red Max saw experiment is officially over; these few saws left are just dumping remaining product. The RM website may show them as still available, but this is what's happening.
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Tacotodd

Quote from: Spike60 on November 03, 2021, 06:46:17 AM
Problem there Todd is that most Red Max dealers won't have it and cam't get it. And wouldn't sell it that cheap if they had one. The Red Max saw experiment is officially over; these few saws left are just dumping remaining product. The RM website may show them as still available, but this is what's happening.
Gotcha. Well poop!
Trying harder everyday.

SnoJetter

Yeah, what Spike said.  The Redmax dealer relatively close by is advertising the GZ550, and I think that's the only model he has.  That's why it was easy to push me into a purchase because I wanted a chance to own a brand new red saw before they were all gone.

Technically, my new saw is no longer new.  I spoiled it by filling 'er up with gas and oil.  A few pulls and she fired right off.  Now the clutch side has oil running down the side :'(  But these things are made to get dirty, right?

I still haven't settled on a bar/chain yet.  All my small saws are .058/.325 and I think it would be nice to keep that streak going.  I'm finding the old stock Jonny bars are mostly 3/8 and .050's.  It looks like an Oregon VersaCut is readily available, so that may be what I settle on unless you guys want to steer me elsewhere.  I cut a lot of wood, but I spread it out over a dozen or so saws so nothing I own gets a ton of time on it very quickly.  I don't need the best bar, but don't want garbage either.

@Woodfarmer, to find this saw you'll have to do an ebay search for it.  There's a seller who has them listed for $379, and as of last night there were three left.  I sent him an offer of $300 or $325, something like that and he came back with a counteroffer of $350 which is the price I paid.  The listing includes free shipping, but I'm not sure if that's just to the states or includes Canada as well.

I say there are three left last I looked, but there were 4 left yesterday...until I bought a second one.  No, not for me.  I thought this would make a great gift for my father-in-law whose last new saw purchase was a 2054 in the 90's.  I gave him a 2150 just so he'd have a spare.  I figure this little "2252" would be a nice upgrade for him.  And crazy as I may be, I'd even consider buying a third one to gift to my dad if I can convince him he "needs" it.  He recently unloaded his second (limbing) saw in favor of a second "smaller" bar for his primary saw.  Instead of two saws with different bar lengths for different jobs, he decided he'd just swap bars depending on what he was cutting.  

And finally, thank you, Bob, for those decal p/n's.  If I'm going to put them on, I'd better do it while everything is still clean!

SnoJetter

Here's an update. I ordered a pair of VersaCut Oregon bars (.058, .325) for these saws. Jonny-labelled bars woulda been ideal, but these bars look at home on them with their color scheme.

I haven't cut anything yet, but the plan is to make chips over this Thanksgiving weekend. This is my first experience with Autotune (or CarbControl as the manual calls it), so I've got a couple questions for clarification. Reading the manual, it says for the first start or when conditions change to run the saw under load at 8-12,000 RPM for 3 to 5 minutes. My assumption is I should still warm the saw up, but it almost reads as though I start it up and then immediately start cutting. I don't want to risk a cold seizure.  What is the proper calibration technique? And does this need to be performed EVERY time I go out to cut (presumably conditions will vary a bit day to day and I usually am only cutting on weekends, so conditions would surely change over a week's time)?  In addition, I'm often using this size of a saw for limbing, so I wouldn't necessarily have thick pieces where I can run 3-5 minutes at full throttle.  It just seems like a very long period of time at specific load/RPM is required.  Would I be screwing up the electronics/settings if I fire up the saw and trim brush to clear my escape route, or limb up the top of a fallen tree?  That sort of scenario is how I typically start rather than just dogging into the butt of a large log (which I don't tackle often anyway, more typical is 10-12 inches and the whole log might be bucked up before 3-5 minutes elapse).

Secondly, being this is my first new saw in 20 years, what is the proper break-in procedure? I'm used to the two stroke on a snowmobile and that involves varying the throttle speeds while only occasionally running up to full throttle.  On a chainsaw however, do I just bury it in wood and run 'er at full speed? Or is there a more defined process to break these things in?



 


Woodfarmer

Spike60(Bob), has a video somewhere where he shows how to tune in the AT. Runs it down the length of a log for a period of time like 30 seconds or so can't quite remember. 

Spike60

@weimedog  Walt, can you drop in that vid where we ran the 555 down the log and it cleaned up real nice as it reset? Is there a short version that just shows that procedure?

That 3-5 minute thing is certainly not practical; you'd need a 250 ft log to do that. The various "explanations" in the owners manuals over the years have caused more confusion than anything. Keep in mind, that the cut needs to be continuous; if it drops out of a cut, it has to start over. The reset procedure is really only necessary when the saw doesn't seem right. Remember the thing is resetting all the time during regular use. But if it hasn't been used in a while or you simply want to be sure it's dialed in properly, then do the cut and get to work.  :)

The 555 in the vid had sat for several years and didn't want to run at all. Without the reset cut if would have been back on the truck as it wasn't usable the way it was. But once she hooked up, the thing ran great. Made me wonder why I let it sit so long. 
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

weimedog

Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

SnoJetter

Thank you for posting the video.  Listening to that saw come to life is really eye opening!  If I understood correctly, the low is set just by letting the saw idle, while the high is reset with the 3-5 minute loaded cut.  And this is a reset to factory defaults, correct?  Otherwise, the carb is constantly tuning itself to local conditions while in use?

So...if I'm hearing/reading this right, I should just run the saw like I would any traditional carbed saw and don't worry about it, don't overthink it and just let 'er rip.  If I run into any issues, use the reset procedure.

Any advice on the break-in?  I'm thinking I just load the saw and go, using it as if it were the 20th tank of fuel not just the first or 3rd.

Spike60

Just run it and have some fun. 

The tuning cut does NOT go back to factory default settings. It is tuning to your conditions right where you are. "Custom Tuning" just for you.  :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

SnoJetter

Was "home" this weekend visiting the folks and my dad had more chores in store for me than just cutting some wood.  Brakes on the car, store away the mowers, clean off the roof and gutters.  So not as much time throwing chips as I had hoped.  I did get a couple of tanks (almost) through one of the saws.  I suppose that means the clean one should be put on the shelf and left alone until it's a collectors item, or not...

Anyway, my first impression is extremely favorable.  I can't say it felt any different ergonomically than my 2152's and that is a very good thing.  We found some ash and walnut to salvage that was more dry than green, and the saw powered through it without a hiccup.  Considering the size of the logs and number of cuts, I was very surprised at how long the fuel lasted.  Perhaps that had something to do with fact I was running brand new chain, I don't know.

Regardless, I love the saw!  As an aside, I was also very impressed with the Oregon chain.  I've heard hit & miss reviews on it.  But after the cutting on both Friday and Saturday (again, just two tanks but salvage wood includes dirty bark and encrusted dirt from sitting on the ground) it felt just as sharp as when it came out of the box.  Plus, not discolored or any buildup on the teeth.

I'm very pleased!

Spike60

That's good to hear Jetter. But wasn't the one going on the shelf supposed to be for your Dad? :)

Reviews can be helpful, but there are times when it's best to draw your own conclusions. There are plenty of negative reviews about everything. With the chain, I have guys that will not buy anything that isn't in an Oregon box; others insist on the Husky C83/C85 chain. I just hand them what they want.
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

SnoJetter

Busted!  You're right, the second saw is supposed to go to my father-in-law...but a guy can change his mind, right?

Actually, I figured I'd run the first saw to get it broken in and then hand it off to him.  So the second one can't sit on the shelf or else I'd be without.  A little diligence in cleaning after each use, and it should look the part of a shelf queen for some time.

Just out of curiosity Bob, what's your chain preference?

Spike60

On the 3/8 chain, I prefer the C85/C83 Husky. On the .325 stuff I like the Oregon 21LGX. At some point Husky will have a full chisel .325, and I'll give that a try. 
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

SnoJetter

I found a couple new Jonsered labeled bars (18") with chain for $24 each and decided to pick them up to have on hand for when I get a project saw running.  The chain included was Husky H30.  Haven't tried it yet, but I figure it'll cut...

Incidentally, got out to the woodlot this afternoon for a few hours.  It's about 10 acres of mixed hardwoods bordering a lake and cut off from road access by a field.  The owner gives me free reign to go in and clean up all the dead and downed trees.  There's a lot of hop hornbeam on this acreage and I know it isn't a tree that will restock the woodpile very quickly...but boy is it dense wood and makes a great fire (I have the same opinion of buckthorn, though I hate the way that tree takes over)!  I gather up as much as I can.  Anyway, all this to say I was out this afternoon and concentrated on gathering the hornbeam.  Of course, the saw of choice is the 2252, er...GZ5000.  I have to say this is my new favorite saw!  On a small tree like this, a light, maneuverable saw is nice to keep the fatigue at bay.  I will always use my 535, 2152, 026, or now the 2252 80% of the time for my cutting; this size of saw just lends itself to the smaller wood I usually tackle.  It was a joy to sling this saw around to the tune of about 1/4 cord.  Maybe I'll be able cut up another load tomorrow morning.

I'm at 3+ tanks of fuel through this saw so far.  About how long before a saw is considered broken in?

Spike60

About 10 tanks is considered broken in for these saws, so you got a way to go.

Do you have any high school or pee wee league teams in your town up there? I figure that you folks up there may have been chanting "Let's Go Brandon" long before it became fashionable. :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Tacotodd

Trying harder everyday.

SnoJetter

I'm up to 5 tanks now, so I'm getting there!

There is a legion baseball team in town.  But my kids are too young to be in HS sports, though the high school is consolidated with a hyphenated name, so the chant probably wouldn't roll off the tongue.  This little town gained some small regional notoriety last month when...someone...placed a plywood "Let's go" addition atop the town's city limit signs (all 5 or 6 of them).  Made for a good chuckle on Facebook anyway.

SnoJetter

As explained previously in this thread, I bought two of these saws last year; I used one long enough to break it in before handing it off to my father-in-law while the second one waited it's turn.  Now is the time!  Fall wood cutting season is in full swing and I've used this "new" Redmax to the tune of about 3 tanks...and my gut is telling me I have an oiling problem.
 
The first saw I ran through close to 10 tanks of fuel, so my perception of oil use was pretty "normal."  You know, 1/2 to 3/4 of a tank of oil to a tank of fuel depending on type of cutting (limbing to full on bucking or a mix of the two).  During the first run of this second saw, I was cutting up a small 40-ft tall X 8 inch or so hornbeam: dense wood, but not massive.  While bucking and limbing it, I noticed my chain was not spinning as freely after a cut.  I shut her down and sure enough the bar was hot and the chain was quite tight.  I attributed this to having just over tensioned the chain, which is uncharacteristic of me...but OK, I'm not perfect.  I loosened the chain and went back to work.  It wasn't long and suddenly my chain was too loose.  Hmmm...weird, but I re-tensioned the chain and again found it seemed excessively hot.  I took a look at the drive teeth of the chain and it definitely seemed dry.  After some more cutting, I monitored the chain and it just seemed hot and dry.  So I pulled the side cover, checked the bar's oiler hole, ran the saw without B&C installed and it indeed is spitting out oil.  I decided to swap bars just for kicks with what I had on the 2152 I'd brought along.  This seemed to work great!  The chain looked oiled and didn't get too hot.  I then put the new VersaCut from the Redmax on my 2152 and it too looked oiled and ran as it should.
 
What was weird to me was when I went to refill, the fuel tank was nearly empty but the oil tank was practically full!  I can't really estimate volume, but I'd say 2 oz is all it took to refill (the oil level was maybe an inch below the neck).  That can't be right.  And just like my "gut" says this isn't normal, the first Redmax saw I ran last year wasn't like this when I ran it in the same type of cutting: bucking and limbing small trees ranging from 6 to 10 inches.  It required significantly more oil upon a refill.  If it needed so little, I would have remembered such a discrepancy.
 
Just yesterday, I ran another tank through the Redmax while cutting the top of a large ash that went down.  This involved lots of limbing and also quite a number of bucking cuts in 10" and smaller wood.  I understand limbing means lots more idling and less oil usage than just buying the bar in wood for an entire tank.  When I finished this job, the bar was not excessively hot BUT this time it looked drier.  There was oil present, but it wasn't as "wet" looking as I'm used to seeing.  Opening the oil reservoir I found again that the level was just an inch or so low so very minimal oil needed to replenish the tank to a nearly full tank of fuel.
 
In summary from yesterday, the B&C seem fine but the oil usage just doesn't seem right based on how much I add per the amount of fuel used.  I haven't put the VersaCut back on yet but that first experience with it running hot had me concerned.  Oh, I have the oiler cranked up to the highest setting...and yes, I did double check that it was turned "up" not accidently turned "down."  Is there a way to gauge oiler output other than looking at the B&C?  Can an oiler just be "weak" even though the saw is brand new (though 4 years old by the build date)?  This doesn't seem normal to me, so could use some help in figuring out what's going on.

SnoJetter

Could really use some advice on this one.

I was visiting my in laws this weekend and ran a tank through his saw (same saw, same bar/chain combo, the one I gave him when I bought these two together a year ago that started this whole thread).  The chore was pretty much the same as described above: cutting up a couple smaller diameter trees which included limbing and bucking.  Used about 3/4 tank of fuel and I'd estimate it used 1/2 a tank of oil.  That's much more in line with what I'd expect.

So that first saw seems to be working "correctly" in my estimation.  Why is this second saw so stingy?  Plugged oil delivery line/passageway?  Bad tank filter?  Since my saw is brand new that would seem unlikely, but I suppose it could happen.  My saw is flowing oil, but an ounce or two per tank of fuel can't be right.  And these two saws certainly weren't flowing the same for the same type of work.

Real1shepherd

My suggestion is to take the bars off both saws and observe the oil flow at the source while revving each. If it's the same, your problem lies in the bar/oil holes etc. If they flow substantially different, it's a saw issue.

Kevin

lxskllr

Same oil setting? I assume they have adjustment screws. Even if they're in the same physical position, manufacturing variance could cause them to be different. If it can be adjusted to be acceptable, I wouldn't worry about it.

Real1shepherd

Well, that's just it. Don't know enough about that saw and how the oiler adjusts, if at all. But all things being equal, one oiler shouldn't significantly outpace the other.....same model, same yr etc.

Kevin

DHansen

Snojetter did say he has the oil adjust to max.  I wonder if both saws are on the same setting?  I would look into what drives the oil pump see if there is an issue with the drive or the pump.  Also as suggested take bar off both saws and compare oil out put from both with the bar removed.   If needed you could switch the pumps from saw to saw and see if the problem moves with the pump.

Spike60

Well, let me ask a different question. If the "stingy" saw is putting out enough oil that it performed the job at your inlaws without a problem, are you sure there is one? Remember the old joke about the guy who goes to the doctor and says, "When I press here it hurts", and the doc says, "Then stop pressing there". :)

These oilers are not exactly precision instruments. Very simple little piston pump items. For the most part, they either work or they don't work at all. And 9 times out of 10, if there's a failure, it's the oil gear, not the pump itself. Unless the pump is loose, in which case the oil gear will be failing soon, you're probably OK. And you can feel if it's loose quite easily.

If the only thing to make you suspect there's a problem is looking into the oil tank, then your kind of over-thinking what's going on here. I do get people coming into the store now and then with this same suspicion; thinking that there's too much oil left in the tank and therefore something must be wrong. I just lift up the chain and if there's oil on it, then your good to go.

On the other hand, maybe the auto-tune carb is not working correctly, and it's dumping too much fuel into the saw and that's why there's so much oil left? JUST  KIDDING!! But see what happens when we fill in the blanks with our imaginations? :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

SnoJetter

Just in case anyone missed it, I made two posts back-to-back (the last entry on the second page) that explains the problem in detail (maybe painful detail).  It sounds like some may have missed that.

Quote from: Real1shepherd on October 31, 2022, 05:07:51 PM
My suggestion is to take the bars off both saws and observe the oil flow at the source while revving each. If it's the same, your problem lies in the bar/oil holes etc. If they flow substantially different, it's a saw issue.

Kevin
Great idea except the saws are 200 some miles apart.  When I pulled the bar off my saw, it appeared the oil was flowing adequately for the quick revs I was giving it.  But it certainly didn't seem to be getting on to the bar as I'm used to seeing.  I had a moment where I wondered if the oiler and bar hole were lining up.  Of course they are...when I pulled the bar off, there is an oily outline of the saws oiler channel that formed a nice slot-like shape around the bar's oiler hole.   I could compare it to my 2152 as I suspect those would have similar flow.
Quote from: lxskllr on October 31, 2022, 05:25:06 PM
Same oil setting? I assume they have adjustment screws. Even if they're in the same physical position, manufacturing variance could cause them to be different. If it can be adjusted to be acceptable, I wouldn't worry about it.
Quote from: Real1shepherd on October 31, 2022, 07:27:21 PM
Well, that's just it. Don't know enough about that saw and how the oiler adjusts, if at all. But all things being equal, one oiler shouldn't significantly outpace the other.....same model, same yr etc.

Kevin

The oil output is adjusted by a screw under the saw that has three stop positions.  I always start out at the high setting and adjust down if I find that to be overkill.  I suppose I could try the other two positions to see if somehow the "high" setting is limiting oil flow due to some odd defect.

Quote from: Spike60 on November 01, 2022, 07:29:20 AM
Well, let me ask a different question. If the "stingy" saw is putting out enough oil that it performed the job at your inlaws without a problem, are you sure there is one? Remember the old joke about the guy who goes to the doctor and says, "When I press here it hurts", and the doc says, "Then stop pressing there". :)
That is a good response from the doc, but in this case I may not have described the situation clearly enough.  The "stingy" saw is the one at my home place.  At my in-laws place, I was using the saw I gave him and it performed as I would expect using much more oil (roughly half a tank for the tank of fuel I ran in it) than what I'm seeing from my saw: literally an ounce or two of oil each for the two tanks of fuel I used.



WDFL

Nice saw, you got a deal.   I wish I could find one for that price, there is one vendor selling now for $499++.
Maybe I'll look for a used Jonsered 2252 which is the same saw.
I have two Husqvarna 545 MK2 saws which is the same saw in the Husky orange color - they're great machines.
LT15(S) w/GO Option
Kubota L2501 HST w/Grapple
Collector of antique 2-cylinder John Deere tractors

Spike60

Well, I did come up with another possibility on this one. Occasionally an oil line will come out of the mold with a small piece of rubber that shouldn't be there that may impede the oil flow. So, if this is truly a "can't sleep" problem you could pull the whole thing out and inspect it. 

I'm pickin' on ya, but I can be the same way myself. No matter how many saws I got, if one of them isn't right, it'll bother me.  :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Real1shepherd

If one is puny output compared to the other with the bars off, same oil output setting......I don't see you have any choice. Could easily be a visible defect of some kind........keep diggin' till you find it.:P

Kevin

SnoJetter

Update: I'm pumping air somehow.

I pulled the bar off the Redmax and fired it up.  It was a couple seconds before oil started flowing and then it was sort of intermittent as there were air bubbles.  It appeared as though it was trying to purge air and at one point it started flowing a steady stream of oil.  But then it went back to a more steady state of burping bubbles.  I rotated the saw from upright to on its side to see if that made any difference and more often than not, the bubbles indicated it was pumping more air than oil.

For comparison sake, I ran my 2152 without a bar.  This one started flowing oil almost immediately upon start up.  And from that point on it was a steady oil flow from idle and at all points while revving (can't rev it much without a B&C; and of course the clutch drum is always turning even at idle when there's no B&C holding it stationary).

It was too nice of a fall day to be inside tearing things apart, so running the test is as far as I got this weekend. I'll remove the clutch and get access to the oil pump and oil line and see what I can find.  With a full oil reservoir, I can't possibly be pulling air from the tank...I wouldn't think.  It must be a leak in the pump itself or a bad seal between pump and oil line.  I've had these pumps in my hand before, but never looked at them closely to see where they might suck air.  Are they rebuildable?

Any insight into where the air is likely coming from?

Spike60

Boy oh boy, this is one of those I wish you lived closer deals for sure. :)

Going to wait and read what you find when you pull it apart before making more guesses. oil/air mix kind of indicates the pump is trying to pump something. This what we call a puzzler.
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

DHansen

This reminds me of a Arctic Cat I was having issues with last winter.  Although fuel vs oil.  The fuel pick up line in the tank was floating ontop of the fuel and not submerged an setting on the bottom.  The weight on the line had moved and plastic filter with out the weight allowed the filter to float.  It would draw some fuel, but not enough for good operation.

SnoJetter

Good analogy, DHansen.  Being a brand new, yet 4 year old saw, it occurred to me that perhaps the oil pick-up had somehow gotten lodged in a remote corner of the reservoir and then over the years of non-use the line sort of hardened and now won't let the pick-up flop around in the tank.  If it got caught in a spot where an air lock could form, then sure enough it could be pumping more air than oil.  That's just a theory and I haven't investigated anything yet, but it sure seems that filling the oil tank would purge all air out of the tank.

I'm more inclined to think there's a simple leak allowing air to enter the system somewhere in the line.  I'll update when I get back out to the shop...which, sadly, might not be until this next weekend. 


DHansen

Just a thought to add to your diagnostic strategy.  And its hard when you don't have the saw in front of you to confirm the information and see the issue.  But just this to add,  If the line has a hole of any size after the pump, it will be a oil leak from that hole.   If the hole is in front of the pump (tank side) it will draw air or cavitate the oil in the line after the hole.  I picked up a 385xp that was a disaster as far as oil leak and oil pump.  The metal line had a damaged area that wore a small hole in the oil pipe.

SnoJetter

Here's the update on the oiler.  The short story is it seems to be working now.  For details, keep reading.

I tore everything apart: oiler plate, clutch, pump, and oil line.  I like that this is a one-piece line rather than a 2-piece.  There's the opening for the pump, the oulet and inlet.  Sealing the outlet and the pump opening, I removed the inlet filter and was able to pressurize the line.  It held pressure, so there's no leak in the hose itself.  I cleaned the pump and there was no obvious sign of any damage or anything amiss.  But I don't think a visual inspection is going to reveal much.

I inspected the inlet filter and it seemed fine as well.  I did what every other shade tree mechanic would do and put it to my lips to blow in and suck through to see how it responds to that.  There was some resistance to pull air through the filter, almost like there's a check valve...but a check valve of any type - let alone to block flow TO the pump - doesn't make sense.  So there may have been some blockage inside of the filter itself.  But that quickly cleared up.

There's really nothing else to look at, so without being able to tear apart the pump, I reassembled everything.  Upon firing up the saw, the oil started flowing quickly and there were no air bubbles.  Satisfied this was a definite improvement, I reinstalled the bar and set off to clean up some downed 8" branches from an ash tree that have needed attention.  This is one of those chores that involves a lot of idling, a bunch of limbing, and only a little sustained high speed operation to buck up the meat of the branches.  All told, I probably used up 3/4 tank of fuel and half a tank of oil.  I'd estimate that's at least 4 times as much oil as I used for similar work previously.

This is only one short job, but at least for now I'm satisfied it's working.  My tinkering somehow fixed the problem, though I'm not exactly sure what it was I did.  I'll keep monitoring in case it suddenly is starving for oil again.

Beauty of a saw to look at and use!  I highly recommend getting one if you have the chance.  Every now and then a new one pops up for sale.  The orange and grey versions aren't bad, but you can't beat them in red and black!

DHansen

Well done! Thanks for the update.

Spike60

Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

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