put in a good 11 hours today but was able to get the rafters up and purlings with the help of a few guys
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/barn_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1597620916)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/barn_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1597620938)
!!! hopefully next Sunday the steel will be going up. can't wait to just be able to mill again.. the barn is 28x48 with a 20' opening in the center for log loading and a 12' wide door on the gable end to get other equipment in in out.
Nice.
When that steel goes on the roof you'll be dry. Steel on the walls too? Or B&B?
That will be a real comfortable and useful structure. Nice place to saw. You can start sawing out stuff for your next pole building. :D :D
Looks good!!!!
Awsome
Very nice sawmill building
Thanks! I'm doing black roof steel and 3 feet on the bottom as well. The rest will either be board and batt or lap siding.
That shed is heaven sent. What i been trying to have my entire life.
Quote from: mike_belben on August 17, 2020, 07:18:13 AM
That shed is heaven sent. What i been trying to have my entire life.
Thanks Mike. I've been lucky and have had alot of good opportunity to make enough money to be able to cover the materials for projects like this. I enjoy building and making things most of the time as well. its not perfect by any means but I feel good about all the materials coming right off my property and being milled by me. the only thing I purchased for material was the LVL beams for the 20' opening and the steel. I will update post again once I get the steel on the roof.
Most if the steel is up!! A few more hours this week and it will be good to go!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/20200823_180226.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1598234864)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/20200823_173615.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1598234862)
Very nice building! Do you have electric source close? Being able to saw out of the weather and sun heat is a blessing. Good job
Nice. Will it get a floor?
mh
picking up the 500' of 350 URD wire today for 200 amp service along with meter pan disconnect combo and all conduit and stuff. I had the pole set with electric company and transformer installed on it back in January.. should have power in a few weeks. for now the barn will have a gravel /bank run floor and the rest of the driveway and area in front of the building will as well. once you put in concrete they really hammer you on taxes!! my current home also has a pole barn similar to this that I build back in 2016 and they raised my assessment by 45K which jacked up my taxes by 1500 per year.. after calling and complaining the assessor said " well you have a concrete floor right?" and I said no... which he came out to verify and then lowered my assessment by 25,000 dollars.
so ya.. for now and until after I build a home on this land in the next few years I will not do concrete. I will just use the tarp trick when I start milling in the building that i've seen on here or youtube. then once I'm done milling for a day or 2 I will drag out the tarp that the sawdust sets on and dump it.
Quote from: Durf700 on August 24, 2020, 08:26:52 AM
picking up the 500' of 350 URD wire today for 200 amp service along with meter pan disconnect combo and all conduit and stuff. I had the pole set with electric company and transformer installed on it back in January.. should have power in a few weeks. for now the barn will have a gravel /bank run floor and the rest of the driveway and area in front of the building will as well. once you put in concrete they really hammer you on taxes!! my current home also has a pole barn similar to this that I build back in 2016 and they raised my assessment by 45K which jacked up my taxes by 1500 per year.. after calling and complaining the assessor said " well you have a concrete floor right?" and I said no... which he came out to verify and then lowered my assessment by 25,000 dollars.
so ya.. for now and until after I build a home on this land in the next few years I will not do concrete. I will just use the tarp trick when I start milling in the building that i've seen on here or youtube. then once I'm done milling for a day or 2 I will drag out the tarp that the sawdust sets on and dump it.
Excellent job, great looking building. We're finally going to be able to start ours in Sept. as well. I'm going with packed class 5 as well, and haven't had any issue cleaning up our sawdust right off the class 5. I tried the tarp thing a couple times and got tired of that real fast. We've been cutting and cleaning up for a couple years on the packed gravel, works pretty well.
very nice work.
thanks gentlemen! finished the roof, rake edge and ridge vent tonight! now I gotta finish a few mill jobs this week and then onto the black wainscot for the bottom of the building and the electric install from the road. gonna be a busy few weeks but I will be very happy in a month or 2 being all dried in milling when its raining!!! :) like I said, its not perfect but for only needing to purchase the LVL and steel I am super happy with my own milled lumber off the property. it feels good!!!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/barn_roof_done_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1598316747)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/barn_roof_done_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1598316765)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/barn_roof_done_3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1598316787)
Whoa. You need some low rafter ties down close to wall plate level before snow load piles up on that. There isn't enough to keep it from toggling and spreading as it sits.
Quote from: Don P on August 24, 2020, 11:08:11 PM
Whoa. You need some low rafter ties down close to wall plate level before snow load piles up on that. There isn't enough to keep it from toggling and spreading as it sits.
what do you mean Don? what is a low rafter tie? I still need to install the wind gurters at my 6x6's and put in the 2x6 braces in between the double top plates that will be fastened to the ends of the rafters. i'm also gonna take some 2x6x16s and run them on angles from the exterior wall across multiple rafters in a zig zag pattern. (not sure if i'm explaining that right. )
I would guess he means another "collar tie" similar to what you have now at about the upper third of your rafter "run" and they look to be about 12' long. I noticed that myself but your peak is tied also. Metal sheds snow well and while I'm no engineer, I think you'll be good. Besides another lower tie will be a long son of a gun. An alternate solution would be to run a cable from beam to beam at corresponding posts if that works out. Your "zig zag" I guess will be on the bottom of your rafters right? Just remember that you love triangles, buildings do for stiffness (racking).
Very nice building, I just got my first mill a few weeks ago myself and am thinking about how to lay it out. I'd love to have access from both sides (I think ;D).
I'd think about sawing out enough 1x to put on your bottom wall girts under your metal. With machines, logs, slabwood fllying around, and snow coming off the roof, and the resulting snow removal, you'll thank me later. That also provides a nice change in the "plane" of the wall and an opportunity to have a nice flashing transition to your b&b above.
Collar ties are in the upper third of the rafter and prevent uplift of the rafters. Rafter ties are in the lower third (many times at the top plate) and prevent spread. (Just standing in for DonP on an easy question. Thanks for all the knowledge you share DonP.)
Glad y'all did, I'm running long the past few days. If you do get a heavy dump on the roof those high ties and the connections are going to be under tremendous tension, carpenters call it thrust because the rafters want to push out the walls.
I'll work an example on this calc to show the difference in tension;
https://forestryforum.com/members/donp/raisedtiethrust.htm (https://forestryforum.com/members/donp/raisedtiethrust.htm)
Assume a 24' wide building with a 4/12 roof pitch
The single rafter span is 144"
If the rafters are all tied, so ties on 2' centers and you have a 30 lb snow load the load on the rafter is 720 lbs
at a 4/12 pitch the ridge is 48" above the plate
Assume the tie is at the plate so 48" from ridge to tie.
The tension is 1080 lbs
Now assume the tie is 12" below the ridge and run the calc again, the tie tension then is 4320 lbs. It is also putting that bending strain into the rafters at that point, a high tie is also called a "rafter buster".
Hopefully not being a party pooper but sure don't want to see that nice roof on your mill after a blizzard. As I drive around after big storms I'll usually see a few roofs that have "snapped thru".
ok now I get what your saying. I am adding a loft to the building which will tie the two sides together with 6x6 posts in the center on the back 16 feet behind tractor in pic. I will be adding more bracing in the front 12' of the building where the smaller opening is that is 12' wide. so basically 28' of the building will be tied together which should help alot with forces pushing on the sidewalls. I like the cable idea to secure the walls together and that should not cost to much money in the center where the LVL is located.
good ideas and advice guys. I will definitely be doing more to brace it up better. I kind of ran out of time prepping things and had a few guys lined up to help me with the rafters and steel so I had to run with it or reschedule the roof.
the nice thing with the dark steel is even when its super cold it usually comes off in less than a day when we get snow. I have a very similar building I built with trusses in 2016 at my home and snow never sits on it.
Quote from: Don P on August 25, 2020, 08:42:00 PM
Glad y'all did, I'm running long the past few days. If you do get a heavy dump on the roof those high ties and the connections are going to be under tremendous tension, carpenters call it thrust because the rafters want to push out the walls.
I'll work an example on this calc to show the difference in tension;
https://forestryforum.com/members/donp/raisedtiethrust.htm (https://forestryforum.com/members/donp/raisedtiethrust.htm)
Assume a 24' wide building with a 4/12 roof pitch
The single rafter span is 144"
If the rafters are all tied, so ties on 2' centers and you have a 30 lb snow load the load on the rafter is 720 lbs
at a 4/12 pitch the ridge is 48" above the plate
Assume the tie is at the plate so 48" from ridge to tie.
The tension is 1080 lbs
Now assume the tie is 12" below the ridge and run the calc again, the tie tension then is 4320 lbs. It is also putting that bending strain into the rafters at that point, a high tie is also called a "rafter buster".
Hopefully not being a party pooper but sure don't want to see that nice roof on your mill after a blizzard. As I drive around after big storms I'll usually see a few roofs that have "snapped thru".
I guess I will need to buy some 20' long material so I can get down to the bottom 1/3 of the rafter. I currently have the 10' rafter tie at the top set down 1/3 from the peak. I appreciate the info. I will be sure to get it done by fall time. I was already considering doing an additional tie but you convinced me to definitely do it.
thank you for the knowledge. :( will be a little difficult but I was kinda thinking I needed some more support in there already.
Good deal, I know what you mean, we call it "running for the roof" trying to get dried in during a window in the weather or when we can get enough guys to be like ants on a cookie. Sometimes it'll be tender until I can get everything underneath finish framed.
Durf700
I was going to suggest. Put huge steel I beams, as tie beams, at your posts. And run a big one the length of the building, with an electric hoist. Above your sawmill, with a pair of tongues. That could be handy.
Don, with the 28' span for the best position for strength being almost impossible with out splicing, would a 18'-20' tie in a scissors configuration (like a scissors truss) be a reasonable fix in this situation? I always enjoy your "smarts" smiley_idea
It took a lotta time for that porch light to flicker :D, hopefully I can pass what little I've picked up on.
What I've done before is make a long well nailed splice and drop a 2x4 down from the ridge and nail it to the tie to prevent it from sagging. Before trusses that was fairly common garage construction. Scissors have their own set of issues but also need a post dropped from the ridge to lock that crossing in place.
Quote from: Don P on August 26, 2020, 10:11:24 PM
It took a lotta time for that porch light to flicker :D, hopefully I can pass what little I've picked up on.
What I've done before is make a long well nailed splice and drop a 2x4 down from the ridge and nail it to the tie to prevent it from sagging. Before trusses that was fairly common garage construction. Scissors have their own set of issues but also need a post dropped from the ridge to lock that crossing in place.
i'm going to go ahead and install a tie with 2 2x6's and run from side to side on the rafters like you recommend on all the rafters. this should take care of any push I may get from the rafters Don.
I should be good to go after?
Yes, then it is just a matter of getting the connections up to snuff.
This is how I've done it to keep everything plumb and in line.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/2xtruss.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1599001514)
I wrote this calc after taking one of Dr Woeste's classes at VA Tech, some of his equations into a simpler calc.
http://www.timbertoolbox.com/Calcs/slopedrafter.htm (http://www.timbertoolbox.com/Calcs/slopedrafter.htm)
Enter everything into the input boxes, the rafter span in your case would be 168", its asking for the horizontal span of a single rafter. The gray output box at the bottom is what I want you to look at. Use the "nails required at the lap joint" both at the center lap and at the rafter to ceiling joist joints. Takes more than anyone ever imagines. There is a table in the codebook at the end of the rafter tables labeled "heeljoint connection table" that has basically the same info in table form.
perfect. thats pretty much what i'm gonna do. I will tie into the peak like you recommended previously with a 2x4. thanks for the help sir!
I will post pics in a few weeks when I get my tractor back. I blew a cylinder on the backhoe (main cylinder) and had to drop it off to the shop.. can't mill the lumber I need until I get it back. I was half way through my electric trench for the power line coming 450 feet off the road.
Quote from: Don P on August 26, 2020, 10:11:24 PM
It took a lotta time for that porch light to flicker :D, hopefully I can pass what little I've picked up on.
What I've done before is make a long well nailed splice and drop a 2x4 down from the ridge and nail it to the tie to prevent it from sagging. Before trusses that was fairly common garage construction. Scissors have their own set of issues but also need a post dropped from the ridge to lock that crossing in place.
I built a ceiling on a second floor of a cape like that. It was a modular house but we had to build the second floor ceiling and roof. I didn't think it would fly, but the guy helping me assured me it would, and sure enough, the inspector had no issue with it. We did a garage similar, but made what the carpenter John, who taught me framing, called an inverted truss. 2x4s in a t like a t-post from gable to gable, on top of the joists nailed to the joists, then 2x4s every other joist, nailed to ridge, rafter, t, and joists.
<b
r>(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/rafter_bracing.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1600466561)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/rafter_bracing_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1600466592)
finally got the lower ties installed today on the sawmill shed. now I just need to install the center supports that will go up to the peak like Don reccomended. the last 16' of the building will have a loft /workshop so once I get that floor in this fall I will install the ties there also, but they will be up a little so I have enough head clearance for blade sharpening and stuff.
after waiting for over a month to try and get a load of hemlock delivered I finally had to give in and drop a few more of mine. my dad and I took down 3 on Thursday so I could mill some 1x8x11 for my wall boards. I got through about 50% of the logs we ended up with and had 120 boards to get started on the siding saturday. So Sunday morning a few family members gave me a hand for 3 hours and we were able to run the back wall and 1 gable wall.. that felt great to actually get some more work done on the pole barn!
last friday a friend and I installed the 420' of electric wire in conduit out to the road at the pole to the barn. that was a work out. my electrician installed my meter/panel box on the barn while we installed the 1x8s Sunday and called in the inspection for my power to be turned on!
its coming along.. hoping by end of November to have it wrapped up!! I could of milled a bunch more boards but I am out of sharp blades and am waiting to pick up the new woodmizer 250 automatic CBN sharpener this Friday!!!! I can't wait!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/barn_siding_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1602627415)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/barn_siding_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1602627442)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/barn_siding_3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1602627464)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/barn_siding_4.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1602627484)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/barn_siding_5.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1602627507)
Very nice. You're going to have a good place to keep you out of the bad weather.
Thanks for the update.
Nice Durf 8)
thanks guys! I was getting side tracked milling lumber for people and finally had to just stop and get back to work on the barn.. I can't get any logs delivered so I had to drop some of my Hemlock for the 1x8's. hoping to mill the rest of them this coming week so I can get the building closed in.
I need to get my loft up on the last 16' of the building so I can sharpen and set up there. I am looking forward to finishing up the outside hopefully soon!
That is a fine looking building. I know what you mean on working for others and never getting your own stuff done. I finally pulled the tractor out in front of a pile of logs I probably should be sawing and poured a slab so i can slide in an engine I bought 2 or 3 years ago.
There's one more nitpick I see. If you can put a couple of diagonals or X's on the inside face of each wall it'll help stiffen it up if you ever get a big storm blowing on it.
This is how I did it just playing around in my shop but if you look in a larger pro built post frame barn you'll see "brace bays" with cable or metal rod X's
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/xbracing.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1491621628)
Quote from: Don P on October 17, 2020, 06:16:18 PM
That is a fine looking building. I know what you mean on working for others and never getting your own stuff done. I finally pulled the tractor out in front of a pile of logs I probably should be sawing and poured a slab so i can slide in an engine I bought 2 or 3 years ago.
There's one more nitpick I see. If you can put a couple of diagonals or X's on the inside face of each wall it'll help stiffen it up if you ever get a big storm blowing on it.
This is how I did it just playing around in my shop but if you look in a larger pro built post frame barn you'll see "brace bays" with cable or metal rod X's
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/xbracing.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1491621628)
I have seen those X braces. I will probably add them also. just been busy not spending much time on the building lately. should have power next week so I can run some lights and start to do all that stuff hopefully by end of November. Thanks again for the advice and help @Don P (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=17) !!!
An easy way to get your angles is just to tack a 2x4 to the inside of your poles, then take a pencil and mark it. I like to leave an inch or so of meat on the end of the board instead of going to a point, and then toenail it to the pole, and then also nail to your purlins, adds tons of strength. X a couple of the bays on each wall. If you look at a morton building, they use a roll of steel strap, and x the whole building.
milled some more 1x8's today while the weather was good! have a few helpers tomorrow so I am hoping to get the front wall on and maybe a gable end peak.. will probably set my 6x6's as well for the loft while I have the help if I have time tomorrow.
more pics to come soon!!!
thanks
getting closer! finished up the gable ends.. just need to build my sliding door for the large opening and install my overhead door @ the gable end.. then batten strips, some more trim work and finish the loft! took off a few days with this nice weather we have had!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/barn_update_3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1604799269)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/barn_update_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1604799296)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59062/barn_update_1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1604799319)
Looking great 👍
Wow, beautiful structure! Coming along nicely, your gonna enjoy the fruits of your labor for many years to come!
beautiful! impressive
thanks guys! It has definitely been a lot of work. every day off.. but it feels great to build a pole barn with my own mill and my own trees right from the land. I am looking forward to enjoying it for many years.