Anyone else get stiffed on orders?

[azmtnman]

The only question unanswered is "don't people hold any stock in their word anymore?". I guess that one is self evident, or we wouldn't have to get a deposit before we cut. 

Red,

   Some do, some don't. I don't know about your customers. Most of mine are pretty rural and I think they tend to be more attuned to keeping their word than more urban customers. Not meaning to put down city folks but I think living in a rural environment forces a closer and more personal relationship. No doubt there are big exceptions to this generality so don't hold me to close to this opinion. Also what is the average age of your customers or more precisely of the ones who stiffed you? I suspect age is a factor too. (Another unproven opinion.)

I think a lot of it is the tight budget people live on (or lack of a budget at all.) They order something from you then something comes up and they don't have the money for your order. The ones who put stock in their word are too embarrassed to admit they can't pay.
 

[Brucer]

I've sold customer orders to roughly 500 people and only twice has someone not picked up their order.

In one case it was a young engineer who was adding a small deck and stairs to his house. I left a message saying his order was ready and heard nothing. I called again 3 weeks later and he was a little embarrassed. It seems he had been trying to sell the house for 8 months with no luck. The realtor told him the deck and stairs would make his house much more attractive and it would probably sell in a couple of weeks after he added them. Well, it actually sold a couple of weeks after he had ordered the wood :. He offered to buy the wood even though he didn't need it, but it was all popular sizes to I let him off the hook.

The second case was a couple I'd dealt with once before. The first time they had a  special order of unusual sizes, loved the product, and were prompt to get the wood and pay. They came back 2 months later and wanted more of the same thing. After waiting a month after leaving a message, I called them again. The woman was very brusque and said her husband was dealing with it. I finally got hold of him and he said it was his wife's project. I finally discovered that they'd split up and weren't interested in the project. I kept that material in the yard for about 4 years and then sold it at a nice mark up because it was air-dried down to 10%.

In spite of those two incidents, I still only ask for money up front on large orders. Over 3000 BF I'll ask for 1/4 to 1/3 up front, followed by progress payments as I work on the order. I always explain that I need some of the money up front to pay for the logs I'll have to order.

I never look at it as "two people failed to complete the sale"; instead I see it as 99.6% of the people I've dealt with have picked up and paid for their orders .

[WV Sawmiller]

Brucer,

   I would not consider the first guy stiffing you since he offered to pay for the order even though he could no longer use it. Glad you could help him out.

   Got mixed feelings about the divorce case. A deposit would have helped cover the extra carrying charge for holding it even though you later sold at a better price.

   I did have one customer who had to delay part of his payment after I sawed his logs at his place. Paid about 40% and told me check would be there for rest in 2 weeks and it was. I'd have been okay with that but really wish he had discussed ahead of time.

   I sawed a large order for a guy 45 miles away. Worked at his place 3 weeks because of weather delays and such and was nervous about that one as all mine are handshake deals but he was Johnny on the Spot the night (I finished last log by headlights on my truck) I finished. Moved the mill a couple miles and sawed one more day for his friend.

[drobertson]

Got stuck once with 8' 1 X12' s pine bout all clear as well, no harm on this one it went to several other outlets myself included. The other time was most recent!y, but he ended up settling up, it too was dead stacked custom sized, this said getting a deposit before sawing, especially on unique sized lumber is just a good idea. Knowing who you( we) are dealing with goes a long way to trusting folks,

[alabama]

It is very difficult to live in the past of a handshake and gentlemen's agreement is solid as oak! Cash is king now. I would also recommend a deposit of 50%. Money talks and you know what walks! I'm not in the business like you are but this is in general for everything. Your not alone...

It's only happened a few times in the last couple of months, but that doesn't seem to make me feel any better about it. I had a guy order 10 6x6x10' Ponderosa Pine posts, he was supposed to pick them up Tuesday. I finally got ahold of him on the phone today, and found out that I have 10 6x6x10' posts for sale.  :( The last one was much worse though, it was $3000.00 of 2x8x8' Ponderosa Pine.  :'(
Do any of you get this kinda stuff? What do you do to stop/deal with it?
Do people not hold any stock in their own word any more?  ???

[4x4American]

I just rememebered the other day, I was stiffed on an order of 100- 2x4x8's two years ago.  I was able to sell it to someone else but I wasnt happy

[Cedarman]

There is enough stress in life with out adding more.  Not knowing if you will get paid for an order adds stress.  Get a deposit and your stress will go down.  If you saw a weird order that you cannot sell and your profit is 20%, you have to saw 5 times that amount to recover the money lost on that order.  You may feel uncomfortable at charging a deposit because you may think it means you do not trust your customer.  Why put yourself in a position where you need to trust.  Get a deposit and the trust will be in that your customer will come back for their wood.
Regular customers have built trust over an extended period of time by doing what they say they are going to do. 
You can reward them as you choose.

[paul case]

There is another option.

I am quiting sawing custom orders. It seems I never have less than 3 ''small'' orders of lumber sitting waiting on someone to come pick them up. I have 2 right now that have been ready for 6 months and 1 that has been here since the second week of last June. I am sure I will be eating all that lumber.

I have searched and found a few outlets for my lumber/cants that pay well and I find we can do a better job sawing for them as they want the same thing every time. I also have a few good suppliers of logs. The only custom stuff I would be interested in sawing from here on is If they bring the logs for me to saw.

PC

[Arkyrick]

75% of the calls I get are full of carp they either want to order something and not put down a deposit or say they are coming and never show. I always ask for 1/2 down that sorts out the Riff Raff. If they are a first time customer I always ask for 1/2 down. After I get to know them I'm more agreeable.

[4x4American]

Paul, wait til you see the logs they will bring you, and they always seem to want something impossible.  Like a 8x8 out of an 8" log.  Or 10' lumber out of an 8' log lol.  These people think I'm a miracle worker.  I have at least a few thousand bf of customers logs to saw yet.  My logger friend is putting together a tractor and trailer load of various stuff for me to saw for him, I'm expecting that one to be fine though, except, he wants to do some horse trading instead of $ trading.

[WDH]

I swore off hickory and custom sawing  .  Mutually independent. 

[Ricker]

Not exactly stiffed today but plenty irritated.  Guy calls Friday needs 15, 8ft 6x6, oak beams asap. I agreed to get them done for him and would call him when I had 7 done so he could come get them so he could get his project started, time was short so I got no deposit. Worked sunday and called him this morning to come get the first batch and the rest done by end of the day.  He said He got called away and can't pick up until next week and only needs 10 now.  At least I didn't have the 15 done and have 5 left to trip over all winter.  If I could find the markets I would give up custom sawing like Mr. Case in a second.

[paul case]

My newest dislike is 6' walnut. We must have sawed about 200 of them for a friend( term used loosely) a while back. Scott just got to slabbing them boogers a lil thicker and movin on. He could make 6 bundles of slabs and 2 bundles of lumber from them a day!!!

I know about small too short crappy logs that folks seem to think are made of gold. I have a line I use about them right off the bat......''It is hard to mess up firewood!''.

PC

[4x4American]

lol lol thats a good one.  I get alot of window shoppers here too..they just waste your time and then go away without buying anything... >:(

[longtime lurker]

One I do get a lot of the time is people that want me to hold something for them. This is never with the framing and flooring stuff - it's always the high end cabinet woods. I used to not mind - now I do.

If I know a guy wants something and he's just cash strapped I dont mind holding it, and reaching out to see if he still wants it if I get another sale it might go into. Then its either pay up or its gone, and I've never had any problems there... might cost me a phone call but its also good customer relations.

The ones I've learnt to hate are the ones that pay the deposit, then dont come back to get it in a reasonable time frame. In effect they're using me as free storage, and we all know how shed space is at a premium in this game. I dont mind holding stuff for a few weeks but after a few months (or in one case 2 years, he'd paid the price in full and is a "friend of a friend") it really annoys me.

Legally after some period of time goods not collected revert to the seller and the deposit stays too - but I've never seen that as a great way to generate good will. One of the things I toss around in my head is either not accepting deposits in cases like that, or refunding the deposit after 90 days if the sale has not gone through.

[Peter Drouin]

I save stuff for customers .................................................. Times up.  ;D

[elitts]

I'm just going to offer the outlook of an outsider here.

Up until about 2 months ago, if I had looked up a sawmill on a search engine or through a website and ordered lumber, I would have done so assuming that they had tons of the stuff just sitting around.  Basically like a mini lumber yard.  I would have asked for 100 boards 1" thick, 8" wide and 8 feet long and I would have assumed I'd get exactly that, in exactly those dimensions.  And if I ended up cancelling my project without picking up the lumber, I would have assumed it was sort of a "no harm/no foul" situation because I didn't take anything from you, and obviously you can just sell the lumber to the next guy who needs it.  I may or may not have actually called back to let the mill know.  My assumption would have been that "worst case" maybe the mill stacked the wood up for me, and had to move the stack back to a different place instead. 

So, while there are always douche-bags out there that just don't care, a basic run-down on the actual process in fulfilling the order for a first-timer probably wouldn't hurt.  Particularly since if you are anything like me, you don't love the idea of going somewhere to buy stuff and saying "Help me Please! I don't even know the right way to order the wood I need."

I know that if I'd ever done this to a mill, then found out what I know now about what I probably cost the sawmill in time and money, I'd be horribly embarrassed.

[paul case]

Yeah we are not the local mini lumberyard.

The problem is no 2 orderers want the same thing.

Scott and I have come up with a new get rich quick scheme. If someone asks us to do something we dont want to we simply say'' we can do that but it will cost you $4.5million''. No one has wanted us to do what we dont want to yet though.

PC

[WV Sawmiller]

elitts,

   Glad you understand the process better. Any lumber I happen to have in stock is normally the odd cuts left over from previous sawing jobs or just some I cut to keep the salvaged logs from rotting. Few of us have the space and I don't have the equipment either to keep a lot of lumber in stock. its a lot easier to keep logs in stock or in my case, go cut a few, and saw to whatever sizes people want. That gives me flexibility to cut to the size they need without a lot of extra storage and handling involved.

[Jim_Rogers]

But i have a yard full of a customers lumber that should have been picked up this summer.
Its a pain to plow around it and i'm sick of moving it >:(
Won't happen again i know that

A line from my rate sheet: "f. Storage fees for lumber in yard will begin 7 days after notice of completion of job.
g. The rate of $20 per week will be added to total job fee for storing lumber.
Prices subject to change without notice."

So if the guy is a jerk then the storage rate changes per my mood after dealing with him.
If it's a lot of lumber then the rate is per footprint in my yard. Three stacks means three footprints. Three times the storage fees.

I charge for stickers. And usually they don't bring them back. If they do, which as been very rare, they usually don't get any money back.

Jim Rogers

[Brad_bb]

I needed some timbers I don't have the right logs for.  I started calling sawyers I found on google and woodmizer pro network.  Found a guy who was supposed to go check his yard to see if the log he had in mind would work,  and call me right back. Didn't call me back Sat.  I left a message on Monday, no call.  I called today and got machine again.  This afternoon he finally called me back.  Said he could cut the 3 Walnut timbers I needed.  I asked if he needed a deposit or anything.  He said no.  He did understand that was a sawyer too from out discussion, so maybe that gave him some confidence.  He said he can cut them tomorrow and I should be able to pick up Thursday.  He didn't ask for my last name, where I live or anything else surprisingly.  I will do everything in my power NOT to stiff him.

[Peter Drouin]

 

  

 


 
I try to have is all cut and stacked. 99.9% of my customers won't wait for me to cut it.
I just miss a $3000, 00 order because I did not have all of it on hand. :(

[tule peak timber]

WOW ! What a nice set up !!

[Peter Drouin]

WOW ! What a nice set up !!

Thanks, I try.

[tule peak timber]

Having a clean professional set up like yours is a big sales draw. Your drying  buildings look nicer than my house ! ;D