Building a custom, mobile sawing business

Djs5017 · March 01, 2021, 01:19:53 PM

Hello again,

At the risk of y'all getting sick of my green EDITED BY ADMIN, I'd like to open another topic of discussion. I used the search feature to look around first, but whether it's my technical search skills, or tightly guarded tricks of the trade, I wasn't able to stumble on what I'm looking for. If there are other threads on this topic already, I apologize.

I'll be a WM 35HD owner at the end of the year, and frankly, I spent the extra money on this mill (vs a ground version of the Lt15) so I could somewhat efficiently do mobile work for others without busting my rear end. I think it's really the work I'd like to do. I have experience in customer service.

Surely, I'll be looking for opportunities to source logs (as per my previous thread), and sell lumber, but without any big boy machinery to move heavy hardwoods around my property, I'm really angling on custom sawing.

So.... Tapping into the collective experience here:

What's the best way to reach your custom sawing market? Social media? Ads in local papers?

How far do y'all travel for jobs? Do any of you ever find a motel and do overnights if the job is big enough?

I've got two ideas myself that may not be so obvious:

1. Do demonstrations at local high schools/vocational schools for their shop class. Donate the wood to the school for student use. Should make our local paper and build a name in the community. Plus, that kind of log to table know-how would be great for young minds. Also, future customers.

2. Buy a booth at a local town festival or event. Bring the saw, mill wood live, have tons of info about saw/business cards, and of course, a trailer to offload into with a "buy me" sign. Should be a hit with the kiddos.

Cheers and Thanks,

Dustin

slider · March 01, 2021, 03:15:30 PM

maybe Magic Man will chime in .he has been doing it for a while

Tacotodd · March 01, 2021, 03:19:01 PM

I think that you might be needing Magic Man's advice on this. I know that he travels some.

WV Sawmiller · March 01, 2021, 04:27:00 PM

I have the same mill and mostly saw mobile. I have done the school demos and had a real good time and it was enjoyed by the kids and the teachers. I make such offers to churches, camps and boy scouts and such.

I make little half page flyers and leave them in feed stores, sporting goods stores, hardware stores, and community stores. These are dirt cheap to make and match my local, target audience. I leave business cards at all the outdoor equipment places, TSC, Rural King, etc. I put a decal on my truck and get lots of people see it in parking lots and when I see them reading it or they start my way I hand them a card.

I keep a service ad (Only $10/month) in a local trader paper which is my best source because its normal distribution mirrors my preferred work area. I take that back - my best source is quickly becoming word of mouth referrals from previous customers but it takes a while to get to that point.

I go to local flea markets a couple of times a year and sell benches and birdhouses and some lumber but mostly I talk to people and give out cards. I even took the mill to one such show last year which was a big hit. That will almost always net me a mobile job or two although some take many months to materialize. I also go to local Christmas and trade shows and talk and give out cards.

If I come by and see some one cutting trees for a power line or land clearing I stop and leave them a card. If I see a stack of logs piled near the road I stop and if nobody is there I staple a card to the end of an obvious log on the pile.

I have taken out a classified type ad in our local paper a few times.

If I see a tree service company parked or at work I stop and give them cards and get theirs for referral purposes if I can do so without interrupting them.

If you live near a public road be sure to park the mill where people can see it as they drive.

If I see someone selling wood crafts anywhere I stop and talk and ask where they get their wood and give them a card.

I keep thinking of doing a sawmill demo showing as mentioned in a sister thread here but have not done that mainly because of the logistics and multiple trips involved if I have to bring the logs and haul away the lumber and debris. I keep thinking of doing something like that where the customer can bring any log and get it sawed for ___ (Limit one log per customer at that rate) and be sure to list the size constraints to something we can handle without special MHE.

So far my most distant job has been 85 miles away. I don't put a restriction on how far I will go but if it is too far I tell them I will require lodging and per diem. I often refer them to the FF or WM sites to go see if there is not someone closer as I prefer not to travel that far but I do not say no. If I do I just charge more.

So far I have not sawed outside my home state where I am licensed and would prefer not to do so even though the state line is less than 50 miles away. I don't want to run into tax and license issues if I can help it.

BTW - I print a small International 1/4" log scale on the back of my business card which is super convenient when explaining yield estimates which is a natural question and may be reason enough to have them keep the card.

I also make tomato stakes and such out of low grade logs and edgings and such and any time I see a garden supply place selling tomatoes and such I stop and see if they want some and even leave a few on consignment if they are uncertain but willing to experiment. That has worked well for both of us.

Keep us posted.

SawyerTed · March 01, 2021, 04:34:37 PM

@Magicman is the veteran and sets the standard for portable sawing. I've modeled some of what I do after his business model.

My suggestions are as follows.

First, set your business up as a legit business - LLC, corporation, etc. Don't cut corners. Get help from a CPA, Small Business Center or other small business expert. Consult with your insurance agent on proper insurance then purchase real insurance. Do the business side right up front. It's not hard to set it all up. What's hard is maintaining the business operations while "doing business." Even if you are part time there are distinct advantages to having your operation set up as a real business. Get expert advice even if you have to pay for it.

My first steps (lots of legwork) to get the word out were in no specific order:
Facebook Page for my business - others use a website
Signage for my yard, on my sawmill and for portable jobs
Taking business cards with me everywhere and giving them out to anyone who might be remotely interested- friends, relatives, etc
Posting business cards on the bulletin board at the agriculture supply, the feed mill, the hardware store, the builder supply, local restaurants etc
Facebook Marketplace ads for lumber
Sawing my own logs near the road occasionally
Donating lumber to local schools for various student activities (bluebird boxes, carpentry, ag classes)
Contacting the US Forest Service Office and getting on the list of sawmills maintained there.
Let the Agriculture Extension Service know about your business.
Swapping lumber or sawing services for other goods or services - I sawed trailer decking for loads of gravel, sawed 8/4 and 12/4 live edge for metal roofing, sawed barn framing for firewood. I don't do so much of that now but early on it let some key people know the quality of my work. I will still consider swapping sawing for something especially for a new customer but I'm very particular about it now.

After 3 years, word of mouth produces more customers than anything but periodically I refresh business cards. Stop by the builder supply (I saw regularly for one of the owners), the forest service office, etc just to keep my business in their minds.

I now saw regularly for several cabinet builders, furniture builders and custom mantle installers and for the US Forest Service Forester. I also saw custom orders for the local builder supply. Their good recommendations are absolutely the best advertising I can have.

Early on I cultivated a relationship with a tree service and have maintained that relationship. I get referrals from the owner and have a small special log supply that comes from him. I go pick up logs from job sites for him. Many times he gives me the logs, sometimes I pay. Always I carry something for the crew - biscuits, lunch, cold drinks, ice cream that gets the logs trimmed and loaded with care.

I have specific setup and mileage charges that I discuss with a prospective customer. Travel expenses for overnight or multiple day jobs are negotiated on a job by job basis. I've stayed in a motel, in the guest house/cabin, in my travel trailer, in a customer's travel trailer and once in a customer's basement apartment.

WV Sawmiller · March 01, 2021, 04:39:13 PM

Very good point on the Forest Service and such. I have done a couple of demos for our local USDA and my biggest job last year came from one of them and the guy is now a log supplier in some cases. He provides the logs and helps me saw them and I get the sawing fee and it is working well for both of us.

I don't do Facebook but keep some items on Craigslist and list a note there and get a little business from them too.

Tristen · March 01, 2021, 05:01:06 PM

Quote from: Djs5017 on March 01, 2021, 01:19:53 PM

1. Do demonstrations at local high schools/vocational schools for their shop class. Donate the wood to the school for student use. Should make our local paper and build a name in the community. Plus, that kind of log to table know-how would be great for young minds. Also, future customers.

2. Buy a booth at a local town festival or event. Bring the saw, mill wood live, have tons of info about saw/business cards, and of course, a trailer to offload into with a "buy me" sign. Should be a hit with the kiddos.

Post like this is one of the things i love about the Forestry Forum. Sawyers or future sawyers are posting on here looking for help/advice and yet none of us have any clue about what ideas this post may spawn.

1. I am calling my local school as soon as i get done posting this (ok, maybe tomorrow school is out already) our local school dose not have a shop class however they do have an FFA/Agriculture class. They are not a rich school and field trips are limited but a 5 mile drive to my house would cost them nothing. Heck i would even provide the hot dogs for lunch. Even if i don't get any business out of it just doing it would be a great reward for me.

2. Your local county fair may be willing to GIVE you a space, as long as you are willing to DEMO the sawmill, sign's with the times for the DEMO to start, maybe not right in the middle of the fair, but somewhere the saw dust would not be a problem etc,.

OR OPTION 3. Something that I am trying is a "free sawmill weekend", it is on the FF event calendar March 20th 2021. If someone brings me a log i will mill them free that week end only, hoping to bring in other sawmills and a few local logs. I don't think it will turn out to be much this year due to COVID but I am still hoping to develop some good contacts from that event and give a little back to my community.

I understand each of the above situations is going to require some legal papers to be signed in case of accidents and liability issues.

Thank you for the post, giving back to my local high school is an idea i had not though of ! You have inspired at least one person today !

Djs5017 · March 01, 2021, 06:33:19 PM

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 01, 2021, 04:27:00 PM
I have the same mill and mostly saw mobile. I have done the school demos and had a real good time and it was enjoyed by the kids and the teachers. I make such offers to churches, camps and boy scouts and such.

I make little half page flyers and leave them in feed stores, sporting goods stores, hardware stores, and community stores. These are dirt cheap to make and match my local, target audience. I leave business cards at all the outdoor equipment places, TSC, Rural King, etc. I put a decal on my truck and get lots of people see it in parking lots and when I see them reading it or they start my way I hand them a card.

I keep a service ad (Only $10/month) in a local trader paper which is my best source because its normal distribution mirrors my preferred work area. I take that back - my best source is quickly becoming word of mouth referrals from previous customers but it takes a while to get to that point.

I go to local flea markets a couple of times a year and sell benches and birdhouses and some lumber but mostly I talk to people and give out cards. I even took the mill to one such show last year which was a big hit. That will almost always net me a mobile job or two although some take many months to materialize. I also go to local Christmas and trade shows and talk and give out cards.

If I come by and see some one cutting trees for a power line or land clearing I stop and leave them a card. If I see a stack of logs piled near the road I stop and if nobody is there I staple a card to the end of an obvious log on the pile.

I have taken out a classified type ad in our local paper a few times.

If I see a tree service company parked or at work I stop and give them cards and get theirs for referral purposes if I can do so without interrupting them.

If you live near a public road be sure to park the mill where people can see it as they drive.

If I see someone selling wood crafts anywhere I stop and talk and ask where they get their wood and give them a card.

I keep thinking of doing a sawmill demo showing as mentioned in a sister thread here but have not done that mainly because of the logistics and multiple trips involved if I have to bring the logs and haul away the lumber and debris. I keep thinking of doing something like that where the customer can bring any log and get it sawed for ___ (Limit one log per customer at that rate) and be sure to list the size constraints to something we can handle without special MHE.

So far my most distant job has been 85 miles away. I don't put a restriction on how far I will go but if it is too far I tell them I will require lodging and per diem. I often refer them to the FF or WM sites to go see if there is not someone closer as I prefer not to travel that far but I do not say no. If I do I just charge more.

So far I have not sawed outside my home state where I am licensed and would prefer not to do so even though the state line is less than 50 miles away. I don't want to run into tax and license issues if I can help it.

BTW - I print a small International 1/4" log scale on the back of my business card which is super convenient when explaining yield estimates which is a natural question and may be reason enough to have them keep the card.

I also make tomato stakes and such out of low grade logs and edgings and such and any time I see a garden supply place selling tomatoes and such I stop and see if they want some and even leave a few on consignment if they are uncertain but willing to experiment. That has worked well for both of us.

Keep us posted.

This is a fanatic reply! Thanks for putting aside the time to orchestrate that. Lots of good ideas in there. Some I've thought of, some I haven't!

Magicman · March 01, 2021, 07:11:04 PM

I am late for the party and it looks like the candles have already been blown out because everything that I would have said has already been said. There have been several very good topics here on the FF within the past few weeks, read them all.

Establish a fair sawing & hourly rate and stick with it. No bargaining nor reduced rates. Multiple days sawing requires that the customer provide lodging and yes, I have stayed in the Hampton Inn, etc, spare bedrooms, guest houses, campers, & hunting camps and none have ever been a problem.

Personally I do not buy logs nor sell lumber. Neither do I saw on shares, I saw for money. My reason for this is because I do not have sheds/buildings to store lumber nor a place to build them. Selling also requires an inventory to meet the customer's wants/needs so my money/time is tied up in unsold lumber. This is my personal choice and not intended to direct anyone toward my business profile.

Take full advantage of all forms of advertising, especially a website.

WV Sawmiller · March 01, 2021, 07:54:37 PM

I can't believe the rest of us got that far along with our suggestions and none of remembered the website. :

How embarrassing! I can't believe that was not one of the first things each of us listed. Excellent catch MM!

Magicman · March 01, 2021, 08:09:29 PM

Well DanG, you guys caught me out of town and had already suggested the easy stuff. 8)

terrifictimbersllc · March 01, 2021, 09:10:56 PM

Just add.....make sure you can saw good lumber before taking many jobs. Uniform thickness, balanced grain patterns, not wavy, right species for intended use....maybe others can add suggestions.

If you get into a situation where you cant cut flat lumber and cant figure out why, stop sawing if the outcome isnt acceptable.

Customer has prize wood to saw, get good to be confident you can do it.

Dont let your need to make money or finish the job overcome your desire to provide quality service (paraphrasing Magicman).

Djs5017 · March 02, 2021, 07:05:44 AM

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on March 01, 2021, 09:10:56 PM
Just add.....make sure you can saw good lumber before taking many jobs. Uniform thickness, balanced grain patterns, not wavy, right species for intended use....maybe others can add suggestions.

If you get into a situation where you cant cut flat lumber and cant figure out why, stop sawing if the outcome isnt acceptable.

Customer has prize wood to saw, get good to be confident you can do it.

Dont let your need to make money or finish the job overcome your desire to provide quality service (paraphrasing Magicman).

Thank you for the reminder. It's easy to get ahead of ones self, and just because I've been around a hydraulic mill for a number of jobs, doesn't mean I have any clue how to operate one and make a good product.
I've got plenty of decent pine already bucked on my property, which I look forward to getting into while I learn the machine.

Magicman · March 02, 2021, 07:37:45 AM

A few topics about sawing/setup: LINK LINK LINK

Several illustrations come up multiple times but over the years the same basic questions may be asked and answers given. These are from 2013, 2015, & 2018. There are many more.

derhntr · March 02, 2021, 12:51:16 PM

As a WM owner take advantage of their website for a free listing of your services and your location. 50-60% of my business comes from there. About 30 % from word of mouth and over 10% are repeat customers. Good luck to you.

WV Sawmiller · March 02, 2021, 06:48:54 PM

Another good point I did not list. When you have the required experience join the WM ProSawyer network so any potential customer searching in your area will find you. Join here on the FF and price your jobs accordingly to pay the related finder's fee. Other sponsor's such as the Sawmill Exchange offer such a referral service. Read and comply with all requirements before joining.

Magicman · March 02, 2021, 08:37:42 PM

I got 4 website generated calls today. One looking for a job, another wanting to buy lumber, and two with logs and wanting sawing done. Those two got put on the sawing list.

Stephen1 · March 02, 2021, 10:13:47 PM

I do not advertise anymore, all my work comes from my 2 websites, repeat customers and referals. It's all I can do to keep up. I have been portable for 10 years now. I had a call for 175 trees today all on the ground beside anew road being built. I had to refer him to a larger company that can move and stage that many trees, into logs. My work is 95% portable and slowly I am turning towards sawing in my yard. Do not expect it to happen overnight, be honest, fair in your pricing to ability, and do the absolute best job you can.
Show up when you say you will show up probably the best piece of advice I will give you. I always take a deposit, call the customer the week before and if we have rain I postpone for a day. I will talk to the customer the day before if we have weather issues.
Good luck and remember to enjoy all the different people and places you will see.

ladylake · March 05, 2021, 04:54:08 PM

Saw straight good lumber and don't rip people off like $185 a hour like some in another thread and you'll be busy. Steve

Magicman · March 05, 2021, 08:43:38 PM

I don't have a high production sawmill like a LT50/LT70 but I regularly exceed my hourly sawing rate by sawing by the board foot. On one job last week I made $142 per hour and yesterday I made $117 per hour plus a $100 tip making it $150 per hour. Satisfying your customers will make you successful.

My point is don't get in a rut by settling on one method of billing. Compare the two and take advantage of every bit of time saving technology that is available. Sawing more quality lumber in less time increased your hourly lumber output and thus your effective hourly rate.

Time is money so as @YellowHammer says; "Take steps to save steps".

caveman · March 05, 2021, 10:40:13 PM

Look up anything that has ever been posted by Tom (Cadenhead) and read it.

YellowHammer · March 05, 2021, 11:07:08 PM

In answer to your original question, do it all, everything you can think of until you get enough sustainable business where you don't need to do it. Marketing is a fact life for having a successful business.

If you don't have a job to saw, get in your truck and go find one.

Learn how to saw fast, and learn how to saw straight. Learn how to saw like a professional if you want to be paid like a professional. Don't cheat your customer or yourself. I personally don't work on trade, money talks, and it's what keeps my insurance paid. The last time I checked, my bank or Wal Mart doesn't accept logs as payment. Not all customers are customers you want, and not all jobs are jobs you want.

There is so much good advice on this Forum, and the guys who have already chimed in have been there and done it.

Patrick NC · March 06, 2021, 06:49:56 AM

You've had some great replies from folks that have way more experience than I do, but I'll share my thoughts too. I'm still a newbie and have learned most of what I know through the forum and trial and error. If you have the space to do it don't limit yourself to mobile sawing. I do some mobile jobs and a lot of sawing at home. Seems like there's good demand for both. I would much prefer to do only mobile sawing, but I'm still getting established and have to pay the bills. If you do saw at home, have a good plan for waste disposal. The slab pile and sawdust can quickly get out of hand if you don't stay on top of it. Most of my slabs get burned if the weather permits. Sawdust is another story. Right now it's just pushed into a large pile about 100' away from the mill. Any way you go, good luck and keep it fun. If it's not fun, then it's too much like work!😁

ladylake · March 06, 2021, 04:58:12 PM

Yes you can charge $125 to $185 a hour but around here you would get no repeat business plus get a bad reputation fast. Maybe in a area without much completion you could get away with that , but I'd feel guilty. Steve

Magicman · March 06, 2021, 06:01:51 PM

I have not seen where anyone is charging $125+ per hour. My hourly rate is $75 per hour, but my board foot sawing production will very often exceed my hourly rate. What difference does it make to the customer whether I saw a thousand board feet in one day or two days. He still pays for me sawing a thousand board feet.

Making a reference that I am being dishonest for sawing at a higher production rate is in poor form.