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Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?

Started by Satamax, June 25, 2020, 05:00:10 PM

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Satamax

Thanks Ed K. 

I really don't like this system. I think it's better to apply pressure on the brakes when needed. Mind you, spring loaded brakes are all over in my other job, running a chairlift. 

And that's a safety feature. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Satamax

So, i have ordered the sprocket, and splined sleeve.  Tried this morning to move the drum and the input shaft by hand. It's all locked. Normal, there is no pressure to open the brake. Well. It might not be full of oil then.  ;D. 

Which wrenches and sockets do I need to work on this winch? Allen keys? 

@Pdhx20 


If ever you see this. What is the Parker swivel you used?  The thread in the clutch swivel's plate is the right one? Or will I have to buy a set of taps for this? 

Thanks a lot to you all guys.  
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Ed_K

Ed K

Satamax

Hi everybody. 

Am I mistaken, or the backplate adapter has a big bulge at the input shaft, compared to usual gearmatic 19 winches? I know the can car type, with the bolted ring. But I don't recall seeing that much of a cone on

 other19 winches. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

mike_belben

If youre gonna tap anything for hydraulic i suggest SAE O ring, its just a straight tap and hit the top with any countersink to make space for the Oring to crowd into.  If you MUST use NPT, be sure to come off with a straight JIC fitting and not an angled one.  NPT to a 90* elbow is always a recipe for too tight, too loose or not clocked right.  With a straight NPT to JIC you can tighten the right amount then clock perfect with the JIC 90.
Praise The Lord

Satamax

Given it a try with an hydraulic handpump. Brake opens and doesn't leak. Or at least doesn't seem to. The clutch seems to lock too. Doesn't seem to leak either.tomorow, I'll try something else, with an electrohydraulic pump that I have. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

pdxh20

Quote from: Satamax on July 04, 2020, 12:21:14 PM
So, i have ordered the sprocket, and splined sleeve.  Tried this morning to move the drum and the input shaft by hand. It's all locked. Normal, there is no pressure to open the brake. Well. It might not be full of oil then.  ;D.

Which wrenches and sockets do I need to work on this winch? Allen keys?

@Pdhx20


If ever you see this. What is the Parker swivel you used?  The thread in the clutch swivel's plate is the right one? Or will I have to buy a set of taps for this?

Thanks a lot to you all guys.  

Sorry, Just saw this, that's the smallest Parker live swivel (1/4" NPT). Bought it surplus on Ebay for $25. Works perfectly but I did have to bore & tap a hole in the outer cover for a 2" pipe nipple & cap to allow it to clear. Despite what everyone says about Gearmatics, I'm happy with mine. I'm a novice but I did a really thorough job of cleaning up and lubing (never-seize) every single part, and priming and painting where appropriate. Even when it sits for 6 months, I move the master control lever and it freespools like a dream and winches in like a beast. I must have pulled 5 gallons of rust and gunk out of the band side before I even found the rods & springs !
'56 American crawler crane, Komatsu mini-ex, multiple Stihl saws, '75 IH S-8 cable skidder, 2000 F450 30' bucket truck, '95 Chev 4 x 4 2500 p/u, '05 Sprinter SHC 2500 van

Satamax

Ok, thanks a lot pdxh20. 

Five gallons of rust? That's a lot!  I think I will hydraulicize the brake side. With a tiny cylinder, for more travel. that way, I'll be sure of the brake opening every time. For the few weeks to come, project is on hold. I'm too busy working the day job.  
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Ed_K

 If you go to far with the length of stroke, part of the outside band will contact the outside casting and make the band drag on the drum. Then it won't free spool.
Ed K

Satamax

Guys, do I need to remove the round plate with the four Allen screws, before removing the cover plate on the clutch side? 



 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Ed_K

 No the cover plate will slide off over the pressure plate.
Ed K

Satamax

French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Satamax

All open. Bands are good. I'll have to check the hydraulics. 

But the bearing is dead frozen. 



 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Satamax

Anybody can tell me the bearing model? 

Thanks! 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Ed_K

 The bearing part # is 50792. But I had the auto store measure up the old one and order it. Was $107.00 . Do you have a book on the winch? In the clutch assembly item # 1, part # 51626 is a lever arm, while your in there make sure this moves freely. It'll make life a lot easier when your pulling the cable out.
Ed K

Satamax

Thanks a lot Ed. I'll check that. 


I have the manual and part reference for the winch. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Satamax

With the reference you gave me, i get the bearing's dimensions. That's weird, a metric bearing in a US product! :D 

https://forestryparts.com/bearinggearmaticwinch50792.aspx

The bolts are definitely not metric! 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Satamax

Guys, how do you remove the hydraulic "swivel" 



The little aluminium part. It doesn't turn. And i can't remove the last allen head screw. 

Any idea? 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Ed_K

 I had to get a allen wrench socket type. I put it on the screw and hit it with a hammer couple times then used the impact driver to get it loose.
Ed K

mike_belben

Put a round punch [chisel, drift pin type tool] that is smaller than the hex wrench, into the socket head and beat the thing pretty good like driving a nail in deeper.

  Alternate with heat, penetrant and punch blows until it breaks loose but be very careful that your punch isnt mushing the hex face.  If the hex gets ruined you can either grind a larger size sacrificial hex tool with a taper and hammer that in, or the same with a suitable torx tool and try again.  Anything that will bite the socket head.  Welding or brazing the tool to the allen head fastener is an option if there is no other choice and it wont harm the rest of the assembly.  But i rarely fail to get one out prior to that.  Drilling allen bolts isnt fun by hand.. Theyre pretty hard.
Praise The Lord

Satamax

Thanks a lot Ed. 

I've  put a pair of vice grips on the aluminium thingy, poured some WD40 on the bearing holding the thingy, and managed to budge it, so it freed the allen head, and i could remove the last screw. Now, i think i'll have to borrow a bearing "extractor", is that the right word? Because i have nothing of that size. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Satamax

Quote from: mike_belben on November 30, 2020, 07:22:12 AM
Put a round punch [chisel, drift pin type tool] that is smaller than the hex wrench, into the socket head and beat the thing pretty good like driving a nail in deeper.

 Alternate with heat, penetrant and punch blows until it breaks loose but be very careful that your punch isnt mushing the hex face.  If the hex gets ruined you can either grind a larger size sacrificial hex tool with a taper and hammer that in, or the same with a suitable torx tool and try again.  Anything that will bite the socket head.  Welding or brazing the tool to the allen head fastener is an option if there is no other choice and it wont harm the rest of the assembly.  But i rarely fail to get one out prior to that.  Drilling allen bolts isnt fun by hand.. Theyre pretty hard.
Mike, that was not the allen head screw, giving me trouble. But the L shaped  hydraulic coupling attached to the swivel thingy, which was covering the allen head screw. They all came appart pretty nice. But the swivel. I think i'l have to press it out that swivel.  
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

mike_belben

Gotcha, i guess i was looking at the wrong part.

"extractor" is more commonly used to describe tapered tools that are pounded into a hole you drill in a broken bolt for removal.


I think youre wanting a bearing "puller" or "jaw puller."   They come in 2 jaw, 3 jaw, 4 jaw, flange, internal bore style, steering pump collet etc etc.  
Praise The Lord

Satamax

I am wondering what to do bearing wise. Go expensive, go cheap? I have all options between 20$ and a hundred. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

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