Belsaw M14 Arbor and collars.

[Jeepcamp]

Hello All, I need some help. I have a belsaw M14 mill and it looks like the fixed collar on the arbor is crooked on the arbor. Belsaw littiture says the fixed collar is pressed on the arbor shaft. Does anyone know if it can be removed from the arbor shaft in any way?  I would like to have it removed to take the collars to the machine shop to get trued up. Has any one ever removed the fixed collar.

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Any idea (hard knock ? ) how the fixed collar could become crooked?

Wonder if the arbor and collar needs to be taken to a machine shop?

Do you have the Lunstrum circular saw info ?
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf

It may be of some help.

[Jeepcamp]

Thank you beenthere. I did find that sawmill book , very good stuff. I just got this mill and sawed about 7 logs and now would like to make it run smoother than it is. looking at my slight wobble it looks like its from the fixed collar. Just windering if any one ever removed it from the arbor??

[thecfarm]

Jeepcamp,welcome to the forum. Looks like you have a project in front of you.  ;D

[bandmiller2]

Jeep, as Beenthere says it would be best to have the collar machined on the shaft that's really the only way to get it true. Did you turn the arbor  shaft and check that its running true.? The only problem is finding a lathe with a long enough bed or a headstock that the 1 3/4" shaft will pass through. No doubt a hydraulic press would remove the fast collar if you have to go that route. Frank C.

[Ron Wenrich]

We had a guy come out and turn the collar on the mill.  Not cheap, but a lot cheaper than tearing the mill apart.

I can't see how your collar would be crooked on the shaft.  If it looks like it is running crooked, then the shaft might be sprung.  If that's the case, you won't need to have the collar turned.  You'll need a new shaft.

[york]

Jeep,you need to remove the saw and turn the mandrel and check the fixed collar face,with dial indicator-the fixed collar may be ok,could be you have saw trouble.....

[Tripp]

Jeep, I have the same problem with the collar on my belsaw. The shaft is true but the fixed collar does not run perfectly true. I have been sawing with it for about 6 years.  The saw runs true when up to speed though.  I have also thought about having someone true it while it is spinning on the mill.
I will be interested to see how you do it.

Tripp

[Ron Wenrich]

How are you measuring your collar on the shaft?  Seems to me you want to take a common point at someplace solid, and measure the distance to the outside of the collar.  Then you want to turn the shaft to see if the collar moves relative to the common point.  I can't see where there would be enough slop in the fast collar to pull it out of square and result in a "crooked" collar.  I can see them having wear.

If a collar is crooked, you wouldn't be able to pull your outside collar to where the plates on the collar and the saw would meet and provide the correct support.  The saw would wobble, and not saw very well.  To see how well the meet, you chalk the inside of the collars, and put a saw on.  The saw will then show you where the collars aren't meeting the saw.  There will be gaps.

[bandmiller2]

Jeep, Belsaws don't have the two drive pins heavier mills have and they rely on just a friction fit between the collars to hold the saw plate. If someone hung the saw or over tightened the nut theirs the possibility throwing the fast collar out of wack. I would double check that your arbor shaft is straight, if so I would consider setting up something to true the collar by grinding on the mill. A wile back one of the guys here bought a cheap cross feed table and I think mounted a grinder on it. Usally you don't have to remove much to true the arbor, of course its best done on a lathe arbor and collar togather but sometimes we don't have deep enough pockets. Frank C.

[Jeepcamp]

Hello All, thanks for your support. It has been so cold hare in WV I have not been back to the saw to work on it. I will check the run out and let you all know what I find out. Talk to you soon.

[WV Sawmiller]

Jeepcamp,

    Where in WV are you located? Welcome to the forum. When you get a chance update your profile with location and all contact details. Stay warm. More bad weather (wintery mix/black ice) coming from the last report I saw.

[Jeepcamp]

Hello all, thanks for your help. I was able to remover the arbor and after filing all the rust off I was able to get both bearings off the one end of the arbor oposite the fixed collar. I took the arbor to a local machine shop and they checked the run out and machined the faces of my collars. New FYH SA209-28F roller bearings and we look to be running truer. Now that that is all good it looks like I need to get my blade hammered. I tink it has a slight bend. about a 1/4 inch wobble at the blade tip. Any way I'm going to put it back in service and give it a try. I would like to find someone to send the blade to or take it to to get it hammered and see if the last bit of wobble can be removed. Does anyone know a person to hammer and even mabye teach me?

[dustyhat]

you should not remove it, it needs to be turned on the shaft. when i build a new one . i turn the coller a few thousands small then  i heat the coller glowing red so it expands and slide it on. then its on there without welding and takes alot of pressure to get of . check everything with a dial indicator before going to far.

[Little Jim]

Jeepcamp: I would not be so quick to run off and spend more money. There are several things you can try. 1) Mark the edge of your fast collar with a permanent marker and the saw blade at the same spot. This will give you a reference point. Now loosen the nut, hold the mandrel still and rotate the saw backwards about forty-five degrees, hand tighten the nut with a wrench, spin the blade by hand and recheck. You might make a big difference. Play around with this and get it as close as you can then check it up to speed. Very, very few will spin dead true by hand. 2) I have usually had to paper the fast collar (Manila envelope thickness) to get it where I want it. Belsaw only has a 1 3/4" shaft and without a doubt someone has gotten it stuck in a log in the past. This puts a great deal of torque on a relatively small shaft as mandrels go. A little bit of wobble is not a deal breaker. However, it should not be fluttering at the top when up to speed. Also, make sure all your shanks are seated correctly and the bits are sharp. I could not ask mine to saw more true than it does and it has never spun dead true. It probably wobbles 1/16" when spun by hand. It runs fine up to speed (540 rpm) Make sure all other aspects of your mill are correct as well. Pay attention to what you are doing and be safe. I hope this helps. Little jim