Thinking about a bigger mill

[ATLGA]

Our little team has been using a TK1600 for a couple years now. We like the hydraulics and the ability to saw some nice wide boards with it. The mill was second hand when we got it and is starting to show its age. Ive been trying to figure out if I want to stick with band saw technology or move over to a swing mill. I think we want to accomplish several things with a new saw. Speed up production, increase equipment up time, maintain ability to saw wide boards at least 12" in width. From what I can tell only a couple of the swing mills let you make 12" cuts. Do you fellas have any suggestions on what models or brands I should look into. Somebody already pointed me towards Mighty Mite. I just wanna have some comparison. We will prob keep the TK and run them together. Does that open up any other options? I guess I am just trying to have a good strategy and I respect the experience of fellow board members. Thank you fellas.  :P

[sgschwend]

I far as I know economically priced swing mills have depth of cut less than 12".  There are several brands that make a swing mill that will cut 8 1/2" deep and at least one up to 10" deep.   

The deeper the cut the more the waist.  There is another method where the mill has a main saw and edger(s) saws.  Mighty Mite and Mobil Dimension are two brands that do this. 

None of these mill have a way of handling or turning logs in an inexpensive way.  Some  of these do not have a reference so if your log moves or you turn it you will not easily be able to level and set the skew.  Unlike in a badmill a swingmill has the need to keep track of the vertical and horizontal reference.

A mid size mill operation would use a Mighty Mite saw and removed large parts that can be resawn on other machines.  The largest part the MM can remove is 12X12".

In using a swing mill (not in a double cut mode) you can remove a cant as large as the deepest cut,  for example an 6" swingmill can remove a 6X6", a 8.5 swingmill can do an 8.5X8.5, and a 10" can do a 10X10.

Certainly a double cut is possible (which will double the width of the board you can make), a bit more time consuming and it is often done on logs that match the size of the width to be cut; in other words it is much more difficult to double cut boards from a large logs without a bunch of side lumber being created.

I my view swingmills do a great job of producing part up to their depth of cut, they work best in the vertical cut.  Using the two mills together would be a good idea as long as you can moved the large parts from the swingmill to the band mill and are happy with the less than 12" size cant or cutting logs that would naturally produce a 12" can you are happy with an 8X12 or 10X12" cant.

[5quarter]

Swing mill would allow you to take on some really big logs that are not otherwise profitable to cut on a bandmill. If you have access to a good source of oversized logs, it may be a very good investment, esp. if you get the slabbing attachment. If it were me, and I knew I had enough business to support it, I'd set up a circle mill, sell the bandsaw and buy agood edger and live deck.

[Ianab]

12" is going to be a problem with most Swingmills. From what I have heard the manufactures have issues trying to go over about 10 cut. Blade thickness has to increase, so does kerf, you need more power to drive it, and have stability issues when the blade goes horizontal.

I guess the question is what are you cutting, from what sort of logs?

Swingblades do their best work cutting dimension boards from larger logs. Sure you can double cut to get wide boards, and you can cut smaller logs OK. But you wont have any real advantage over you TK in that case. Cutting 12" boards from an 18" log? Your TK will probably do it faster.

Want to cut 8x2s from a 36+" logs, Swingmill will have you smiling and producing some serious amount of boards.

Hard to say without knowing more about your operation. Can you live with mostly 10" boards? What are the real production hold-ups at the moment? Would a log deck and edger enable you to get more production out of the existing mill? Can you source oversize logs that no one else wants for a good price and saw them with a Swingblade into 10" boards and make good money?

The Swingblade mills are well priced for what you get, and quite simple to maintain. Not a lot to go wrong with them. But is it best for YOUR operation?

Ian

[Satamax]

Well, daft question, is the TK paid for?  If yes, why not keep it, maintain somewhat and keep using it for wide boards for example. And get a 8 incher swing mill to complement the  other one. Ok, you might not be that rich as to buy one cash, but the bankster might be keen to lend you the money. And with two mills, you can get your wife, kid or brother to work :D

[ladylake]

 
Having both a band and swing mill sounds good to me.      Steve

[bandmiller2]

What 5 quarter says,today circular mills are the most bang for your buck,with production the outher mills dream about.Its a major job setting them up and you really need two people,but they will put out and last almost forever.Frank C.

[jdonovan]

Speed up production, increase equipment up time, maintain ability to saw wide boards at least 12" in width.

The TK1600 is the entry level hydraulic mill in TK's line. I would think that you could get quite a bit more production by going to larger bandmill in either TK or WM's lineup.

Also you'll pick up production with an edger in the flow... but only if you have enough help to help to handle all the equipment, and run the machines.

The swing mills really shine when cutting lumber that doesn't require double cuts. For most swing mills that will mean 8x8's or less. Yes they have slabbers, but the bandmills will beat the slabbers if you are under 36" of diameter.

If you want wide boards and more production, it sounds like you need a bigger band mill.

[ATLGA]

Thank you fellas for all the replies and insight. I am reading through them all again for the 3rd time. Something I forgot to mention is we like to QS a lot of our logs. I think the band mill may have an advantage in that arena.

JDT

[customsawyer]

If you can use the 8"or less boards then the swing mills really shine when it comes to quarter sawing lumber. I would also think that unless you have a steady supply of large logs then most of your boards will be 10" or less. You would be welcome to come down and watch the sycamore project and see how Danny and I do it. We don't shoot for high production but for quality.

[Kansas]

A swing mill will give you some QS lumber. A bandmill, done right, can have every board QS.

I would suggest you upgrade to a bigger band mill. Then I would try to find someone in your area with a swing mill that can knock down the big logs for you. Be wonderful if you could find someone with the slabbing attachment for it but the odds of that are long.

I would say this about a bigger mill. The more complicated they get, the more electronics, hydraulics, and everything else, the more you wind up trying to keep them up and going. When they cut, they cut a lot faster. But you also have to expect more downtime.

[WoodenHead]

I am certainly no expert in regards to swingmills and I'm still learning the ropes for bandsaw mills, but I'll offer you this.  I saw a Peterson swingmill in action operated by one person.  I would say it was no faster than the average bandsaw simply because of the material handling.  I was looking at increasing production with the addition of a swingmill, but in the end concluded that my bandsaw with an edger (along with some smarter material handling) would be a better a fit.  My products are generally in the 10-12" width.  I also do some QS.  I have a primarily stationary setup and I assume you are working that way also.

I'm not sure if they are a FF sponsor or not, but I was looking at the D&L swingmill at one point because of the 180 degree blade swing.  This means you don't have to rotate the head to do a double wide cut.  It might be something to consider.   

[Ianab]

I saw a Peterson swingmill in action operated by one person.  I would say it was no faster than the average bandsaw simply because of the material handling.

Probably true, especially with small logs that a bandmill is designed to handle.  You can saw alone on a swingblade, but more help makes it a LOT faster. You can saw smaller logs, but probably no faster than a good bandmill. You can quartersaw, not all the boards are true q-sawn, but you can do it on big logs, and it's no harder than any other cutting pattern, and you don't move the log or pieces of it.

But is it the right mill for this situation?

Ian

[ladylake]

 
Kanas   How do you get every board QS on a bandsaw without a LOT of waste. I'd say a swing mill is a bit easyier to get QS out of but with big logs a bandsaw will give you wider QS boards.  Steve

[5quarter]

Steve...There are a couple ways to do it. When I do it, I center my log, take the first slab and rotate 180° and take the second. I make sure that the slabs are equal in thickness and leave me 27" between the cuts (widest dimension I can squeeze between my guides). I then rotate 90° and make at least 3 cuts; 1st cut is 5/4 above the pith, 2nd throuth the pith and 3rd 5/4 below. I then push off the top 1/2 and pull the two wide boards. I then rotate the bottom 1/2 clockwise until rings are perfectly perpendicular to the blade. bump the blade up 2 1/2" and remove a wedge (waste) drop 5/4 and take a narrow board. drop 5/4 and take a wider board (these boards will loose 2-3" on the tapered side when edging, plus an inch or so on the bark side. more waste.). repeat the above process until you have a wedge left on the bunks. then do the same thing with the other 1/2. Very time consuming and more wasteful than other methods. alot of time spent rotating and blocking the cant. also, this method does not yield any bookmatched pairs, except for what you take from the center. Advantage is 100% true quartersawn lumber. profitable only if the lumber has considerably more value due to high figure as a result of 1/4 sawing. some oaks, Sycamore and maybe a couple others. I've only cut that way maybe 1/2 a dozen times, but each time turned out to be well worth the effort.

[ladylake]

 I tried that once, way too much waste.  I'd rather have some nice rift sawn than a bunch of tapers and a lot of extra time.      Steve

[Magicman]

It all depends upon your market or what your customer wants.

My customers are content with getting the QS boards from the center of the cants and the remaining lumber, rift.