Can I make any money at this?

[Taptap]

This is my first post. I am very glad to have found this forum. It looks just like the place I've been looking for.

I've been the owner of a small wood lot for more than 20 years. I've been cutting my own fire wood for years. I'm getting ready to sell this lot and move north so my think is that it's time to harvest some of the prime timber that I've been looking after for the last couple of decades. I have a fair amount of red oak, rock maple, white ash and some yellow birch.

My plan is to cut a few of the veneer quality trees sell the logs and put the balance into firewood.

I have all the equipment, small Kubota, winch, saws, and trailer.

My question is what are a veneer and saw logs worth? And am I better off to deal with a log buyer or try and deal with a mill directly? I'm just looking for a rough estimate to see if it's worth my while on such a small scale. 

I'm located in Maine. By the way, I'm very open to suggestions.

Thanks,

Mike

[Kansas]

There is a big difference between cutting firewood and veneer logs. I would seriously consider either getting some advice, wether from a timber management specialist, or possibly the forest service in Maine (don't know if they do that there) and look at selling the trees standing. One misstep dropping that tree can cost you far more than the premium you have to give up by having someone else cut the trees. Even if its only a few trees, I would talk to a few loggers about having them dropped, if they truly are veneer. You can pull them out yourself. I see so many walnut logs come into the mill that dropped from 6 dollars a bd foot value for veneer, to 2 dollars because someone didn't know how to properly cut a veneer log. Let the ultimate log buyer choose where to cut them for length.

[Jeff]

A note on harvesting veneer logs. The big commercial mill I worked at not only bought gate wood from other loggers, but ran its own woods crews to cut its own timber. When we had veneer on those jobs, we brought in "a specialist" to cut the veneer timber.  Veneer logs are easy to ruin in the felling process. 

[Taptap]

I just found the "tool box" (nice), so getting a rough idea on the value of a log is just a matter of knowing the ppk.

As far as felling the trees, I'm positive that the two of you are correct. There is a very good chance that doing it my self will cost me money.

But the truth is (don't tell my wife this) I haven't saved much if any money cutting my own fire wood. I could buy a lot of oil or delivered firewood for the price of my tractor, saws and accessories, to say nothing about the labor. I just like doing it. My first two years I did all my splitting by hand. Three years ago I bought a splitter (that's another 10 cord of firewood cut split and delivered).

I just want to try it. I might not take more than ½ dozen of the better looking trees.

[Ron Wenrich]

You forgot to factor in the resale value on your rolling stock.  That'll help take out some of the sting.

If nothing else, hire a cutter to cut the trees.  Best is to get someone in there to sell those trees to.  Let them cut and skid and give you a check.  You'll be miles ahead.  Make sure you get more than one opinion on value.

[Jasperfield]

What is gate wood?

[Magicman]

Your county Extension Office should be able to put you in contact with your County Forester.  He/she can then advise you regarding the future of your operation.  They also should have a list of local Registered Foresters.

And BTW,  Welcome to The Forestry Forum.   

[Maine372]

where in maine are you? help may be closer than you think......

if you are just a hobby firewood cutter you should definately get the assistance of a professional to help you get the best bang for your buck.

[chevytaHOE5674]

What is gate wood?

Wood that is bought from small jobbers at the gate or entrance to the mill, without a contract or anything.

[Taptap]

And BTW,  Welcome to The Forestry Forum.   

Thanks ;D

where in maine are you? help may be closer than you think......

if you are just a hobby firewood cutter you should definately get the assistance of a professional to help you get the best bang for your buck.

I'm in Litchfield ( Just south of Augusta).Help, ya I'd love some.

[Taptap]

What is gate wood?

Wood that is bought from small jobbers at the gate or entrance to the mill, without a contract or anything.

Do you typically get more at the gate or from a "buyer"?

[Gary_C]

It would be a real good idea to get a state forester involved to help you decide what to do. It does sound like you are planning to "high grade" your woods and that may not be a good idea. But get the advice of a professional forester in some way, even if you are going to sell the property after you cut it.

[Taptap]

It does sound like you are planning to "high grade" your woods and that may not be a good idea.

You are right, that is what I'm considering but only on a small % of the property.

If I'm going to sell and I have a few dozen 150 year old red oak on a 40 acres wood lot why not take them? It's not like the new buyer will pay me one dime more or less and it could be 5-10 grand in my pocket.

But I could be wrong.

[captain_crunch]

An Honest Logger would know how to merchindice trees and if He gets percentage of value he won't goof grade up. At least this is opinion of an Honest Logger

[Gary_C]

If I'm going to sell and I have a few dozen 150 year old red oak on a 40 acres wood lot why not take them? It's not like the new buyer will pay me one dime more or less and it could be 5-10 grand in my pocket.

But I could be wrong.

And you could be right, it all depends on what you leave behind and that's what a good forester will determine.

[Ron Wenrich]

One thing has always puzzled me about folks selling timberland.  They rarely get a timber appraisal.  I used to try to convince realtors that they should use that as a selling tool.  But, they were only interested in their commission, and never about timber value.  Afterall, they're just trees (an actual comment from a realtor).

I had one client that I convinced into getting a timber appraisal soon after he bought his property.  The timber was worth more than he paid for the property. 

When you have a timber appraisal, the perspective buyer knows what his bare land value is going into the deal.  You also know what that is.  You know how much the timber is worth, and the balance goes toward the land value. 

You could always present the perspective buyer as a with or without trees proposition.  Let him decide whether he wants those trees or not.  A timber appraisal can be an effective sales tool, and it can help your buyer down the line when it comes to management and taxes at harvest time. 

[Taptap]

You could always present the perspective buyer as a with or without trees proposition.  Let him decide whether he wants those trees or not.  A timber appraisal can be an effective sales tool, and it can help your buyer down the line when it comes to management and taxes at harvest time. 

That's a very good idea.  It had not occurred to me. Whether I take a few of the trees in question or not, a "timber appraisal" seems like a logical step if I'm going to sell.

Thanks.

[hawby]

I worked with a man that signed the sale papers, drove to the property, dropped several trees, hauled them to the veneer mill, and paid cash for the land before the first mortage payment came to his mailbox.

"Hi" to all my old FF friends. Been a long time since I have had time to visit. Moved from MI to IN to PA. Gonna stick here for as long as I can. Anyway, missed all you hard working logger types....

[pappy]

Hey TapTap,
Welcome to the FF you'll like it 'round here...

In your first post you said you're moving further north,, we live up in the Fort Kent area you moving this far up??