Folks,
I've gone back thru the archives looking for uses for Ash. Looks like it can be used for everything from railroad ties to fine furniture, except, no ground contact, or weather exposure.
Seems there should be some appropriate uses for ash common lumber around the farm, but I didn't see anything mentioned. Something in between RR ties and fine furniture. Specifically, can ash be used in farm buildings, rafters, nail ties, joists ??? ??? ???
I'm in KY, so is PPB a problem ? I know it takes kiln dry + high temp to kill the bugs already in the wood. Would a borate solution prevent / mitigate new infestation in lumber that was not weather exposed ?
As always, all help greatly appreciated.
Warren
When we were hauling oak, cherry and hickory logs to the Amish they said they were seeking ash. They told us they needed it to build their farm wagons. We brought them a 28" (small end) 14' ash.
We were given the firewood from the tree laps on a farm that had been logged 2 years earlier. The poplar, sycamore, hickory and maple were too far gone. We recovered some oak but most was too rotten. The walnut was ok but it doesn't make premium firewood. To our supprise all the ash tops were good and solid with no hint of discoloration or degrade. After hearing how ash should not be exposed, then seeing this, and hearing what the Amish wanted it for, I'm wondering if somehow a myth has been perpetuated?
All that aside, use it without fear on the interior of barns but follow tradition and play it safe by not letting it contact the ground.
I have about 4MBF of Ash drying right now. Certainly do not leave it sitting around outside. I let a few of my logs sit for a summer and they were full of all kinds of critters. It is very strong and you should be able to use it in just about every application that you would use red oak. It is often used on trailer decks, just make sure it doesn't sit outside, or is well protected with paint or preservative.
not quite the farm but a friend of my had some ash milled , let it dry outside covered from weather and sent it to a mill to make some t&g flooring .
I've cut several hay wagon decks out of it for neighbors and they are still fine after 2 years. They just sprayed them with Thompsons on both sides.
Just finished the interior of a ten stall horse barn using the dead ash trees caused by the Emerald ash boarer found on the same fram, saved the owners thousands to have it done professionally. They cut the trees and assisted with the milling and stickering and of course they dressed the ash and installed it.
They used treated lumber for the first 2 courses at the floor then used dressed ash wood all the way up and around the support beams, looks great, they then treated the ash with linseed oil.
Two years ago, We cut and stickered 85,000 bf of ash to be used as hard wood flooring.
Did you know during the second world war, the British air planes were first framed in North American ash as it was more giving to bending and readily available.
Robert
I think back in the day old timers used ash to make tongues to pull their horse drawn equipment with, mowing sickle, sleds, wagons ,etc. I had cut some for a guy once who liked restoring that old stuff, keep mind they tapper from one end to the other, with a little work it worked fine, lots of fun doing it though ,just some of my experiences.
For its weight, ash is about the stongest wood you can get. It would be excellent in any type of barn construction or as a utility wood. The most gorgeous room that I have ever seen, with a cathedral ceiling, was paneled in FAS v-groove ash.
If you can find a canoe maker in the area, they would be happy to get some nice ash. Has to be better than common grade, though. I know a guy who is always looking for 16, 18, 20 foot strips (about 2x2") for the gunwhales of the canoe, or 6 foot pieces of 6"x1 1/4" nice and clear for making paddles. Lots of other canoe parts are usually made of ash, too (seats, thwarts...)
Something I've used ash for is sawhorses. Built a pair out of 1 1/2"x6" boards, and I dont think I could break them if I wanted to. We use them by the edger to hold boards that need to be edged if we dont have enough help that day. I built a pair out of 2" spruce, but a big load of red oak one time took most of the life out of them ;D. I think these ash ones are almost indestructable...
One time I cut about 15 000 bdft to go to Montana for a fancy horse barn interior. Gotta love rich horse people :D. They used all clear ash and stainless hardware throughout...
I've always wanted to do a floor in ash. Pick out the pieces where the heart wood is just coming out in the sapwood, looks like flames, almost. We recently cut some ash on my buddys woodlot. About half had a nice round heart in the middle, some had a heart that looked like a 8 or 10 point star on the end. Anybody seen this too? Common? I'm thinking that stuff might saw a bunch of neat looking stuff out...
Burns really good as a last resort, even when green :).
The last dozen or so ash logs we had cut up all had the star shaped pattern. These were cut very close to the ground so they had the butt flare on them. I think that's the cause to the star. The small ends had round hearts.
When I relaid my barn floor, I used all ash. Like LT40, I too have a sawhorse made of ash, and agree to its indestructability.
In Kansas we have lots of Green Ash but almost no White Ash. I assume folks in this thread are talking about White Ash. Are lumber characteristics the same for Green Ash? Thanks.
Girk
Green Ash is a variety of Red Ash (Fraxinus pennsylvanica). I've never milled it. The info I have on it says it's brittle and considered inferior to white ash.
Thanks for all of the responses. I had been hesitant to use, or recommend, ash for much due to the low rot resistance. That will change.
Girk,
First, Welcome to the Forum. Yes, I am referring to White Ash. I am told that Black Ash has a more northern range. Does not extend down to KY. I am not familiar with the Green / Red versions.
Warren
Quote from: Warren on February 11, 2007, 05:59:51 PM
... can ash be used in farm buildings, rafters, nail ties, joists...
I dont see why not. As said already, keep it dry and off the ground. Might want to use it green for building, hard to drive nails in after its dry ;D. Same as poplar. Ive sawed for guys who have medium sized barns all built out of poplar, need to use it green as a building material.
I'd think a building built out of ash would be bulletproof :o ;D
Warren,
It pretty much takes an expert to tell green ash from white ash. They look very very similar. Postive ID requires looking at how far the wing on the fruit (samara) extends past the body of the seed. I don't think that the wood of white and green ash are all that different. I don't think that you can distinguish between them once the wood is milled. Ash is a great wood!
I saw a chart a long time ago about the BTU's that different woods produced when used for heating. I recalled that ash was at the top of the list. We have used it along with anything else that would burn to heat the home and ash really makes a nice bed of coals.
Robert in Virginia
I'm no expert on tree identity. That said, I looked into this yesterday. There seems to be two clues to look for:
1-The leaf scar of the green ash is shaped like a capital D, while the leaf scar of the white ash is shaped like a C.
2- Green ash leaves may have serrated edges and are about the same color underneath as on top, while the white ash will have nearly smooth edges and be nearly white underneath - hence the origin of its name.
I do like white ash as firewood. It's BTU output is nearly equal to red oak, it coals well, and it burns down so well that there are few ashes to remove.
I don't know what kind of ash you guys are burning, but I'll take some of it. A lot of the ash in my woods has been dying the past few years, so I've been burning a lot of it to heat the house. I was beginning to think ash got its name because of all the ashes it leaves behind :D Never have so much fluffy ash as when I burn....ash. It does just fine as firewood (I certainly wouldn't leave it in the woods to rot), and splits like a dream, but I'm glad to be into the white oak and hickory now ;D
If you're cutting ash for lumber, I'd be sure to edge all of the bark off, or peel off any that is left on the boards. That stuff is like candy to powder post beetles :(
Treebucker, you are right on the money!
One old trick that I learned many years ago was to hold up an ash branch and look at the leaf stalk (rachis) from the side. If the bud was invisible, that is, it was fully hidden by the base of the leaf stalk (the C shaped rachis wraps around the bud), then it was white ash. If you could see the bud, it was green ash because the D shaped rachis base does not fully wrap around the bud. Sometimes you have to use every possible feature to distinguish between species, so only one characteristic alone is not enough. You need more than just a hammer in the tool kit, so to speak.
Quote from: rewimmer on February 16, 2007, 08:31:05 AM
I saw a chart a long time ago about the BTU's that different woods produced when used for heating...
I remember hearing once that all wood has the same BTUs by weight. In other words, a denser piece of wood would put out more heat. Makes sense to me, I've seen warped woodstoves from too much dry apple wood :o. Not sure on this, though...
Click to copy photo insertion code to clipboard
Here is a picture (I hope, as it is the first picture I post :-[ :-\ :'() of app. 85,000 bf of 5/4 boards milled from ash logs cut and cleared at the ash free zone created by the C.F.I.A. to combat the spread of the emerald ash borer.
Robert
Let's try again :o
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14606/IMG_2111.jpg)
:)I think I got this picture thing :P
I will try to post other pics of this milling job(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14606/IMG_2103.jpg)
Robert :D
Quote from: LT40HDD51 on February 17, 2007, 03:02:14 PM
Quote from: rewimmer on February 16, 2007, 08:31:05 AM
I saw a chart a long time ago about the BTU's that different woods produced when used for heating...
I remember hearing once that all wood has the same BTUs by weight. In other words, a denser piece of wood would put out more heat. Makes sense to me, I've seen warped woodstoves from too much dry apple wood :o. Not sure on this, though...
You are correct...they all have the same BTUs by weight. This leaves other characteristics such as how hard they are to split, coaling qualities, popping, smell, etc. to distinguish them. Here is a good starting point:
Wood Fuel for Heating (http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/agguides/forestry/g05450.htm)
Here are some more:
Sweep's Library: Firewood Comparison Charts (http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm)
Barbecue Fuel &Wood Characteristics (https://www.barbecuewood.com/stores/barbecuewood/bwc.html)
Heating With Wood: Producing, Harvesting and Processing Firewood (http://www.ianrpubs.unl.edu/epublic/live/g1554/build/g1554.pdf)
Firewood Ratings and Info based on data from: U.S. Forest Products Laboratory (http://www.mb-soft.com/juca/print/firewood.html)
Thanks for those Links treebucker. 8)
Yeah, interesting stuff. I liked the comparisons on that first one between wood, coal, oil and electricity.
I finally have a chance to post more pics of the ash logs we milled due to the infestation of the emerald ash borer :( :-\(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14606/IMG_2103%7E0.jpg)
Robert
Lots of Ash used go to Union Fork Hoe for handles. If they could get the lengh of a hammer handle between knots they would buy it.Been years since I could do the work in the woods.
Localy hand made snowshoe frames are all White Ash.
As was said before a lot of wagon parts were Ash back in the days of horses.
Junkyard
Here are some pictures of a horse barn with it's interior and horse stalls built with ash boards.
The owners have a large bush on the property and the ash trees are infested with emerald ash borer, they called and asked if I could mill the trees and use the boards to finish the interior and stalls with the milled ash.
The metal around the stalls was prefabed by a mennonite company who custom makes stalls, so I dressed the boards to their specs.Then finished with linseed oil.
This was all done with the help of the owner's son Paul, he's 20 years old and eager to work.
Included is a picture of the other side of the barn yet to be finished in ash boardsimg]https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14606/IMG_0014.jpg [/img]
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Robert 8)
sorry (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14606/IMG_0011.jpg)
I will get this yet
Robert ???
Thanks for the help ::)(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14606/IMG_0018.jpg)
This picture shows the view looking out from the barn, you can see where I milled the ash logs
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14606/IMG_0017.jpg)
Robert
P>S> how do I post multipul pics on this forum???????
Just keep adding them to the same post, before you hit the post button.
The preview button will allow you to see what the post will look like when you hit post.
Thanks Furby
I will try again perhaps when I am not so tired
Robert
Bumping a very old thread here, but relevant...
I've been approached about building a pergola with ash trees that need to be felled on someone's property. The ash would be left in the round and be totally exposed (no roofing). I'm a bit dubious about the longevity of such a structure. (The bark would of course be peeled, but still... sheesh...)
Thoughts on longevity? Bad idea all around or what? (Location: central-eastern KY, tons of rain annually.)
I don't think it would be a great idea. We had dinner the other night under a black locust pergola that is, oh must be around 15 years old, still holding up well.
Black Locust will outlast anything else, that I know of!
I've heard that the Amish consider Black Locust as the permanent fence post!
I think Ash will last a few years, but will not last forever!
Best use for ash is inside, like building calf pens or stantions, etc.
Powderpost beetles love ash.
That is my concern Danny. I have lots of milled ash, but haven't seen signs of PPB. I have seen it around the oak. I want to build a couple of mini barns - 4 and 5 stall respectively, One side is open and I'm afraid if I timberframe with Ash, that PPB will go after the frame. I know some coatings can stop them, but it can't be anything harmful to horses. You can't coat the timbers in something that will not allow them to dry/breathe.
Disodium Octaborate Tetrahydrate.