We're looking at upgrading from our 95 LT40HD next spring to an LT50 and of course, I'm drolling over the new mills now. ;D When looking at the engine options, I leaning towards the 35.9 HP 3 cyl. Yanmar Diesel, but with the Kohler having the same HP, why not the gas engine and save the extra $2,500? And is the extra HP for the 47 HP 4 cyl. Yanmar Diesel worth the extra 4k? I know my gas engines but not so much of the diesel so any thoughts would be great!
Thanks!
Luke
Diesel engines are more fuel efficient than gas engines and tend to be torquey-er, is that a word??heh. My first mill,1997 had a 35 hp gas engine. In 3000 hours of use, it went thru a fuel pump, carb kit, spark plugs, starters,Hall effect sensors for triggering spark. Etc. Burnt gas like a pig. My second and current mill has a 42 hp kubota diesel. In 10,000 hours, it has only had a front crank seal go which I changed myself. It has eaten a few starters as well but that's more the sawdusts fault than design. It burns half the fuel that my gas engine did. In my opinion it has saved me its initial cost difference several times over.
If you saw quite a bit get the Yanmar diesel, you'll save that $2500 in 2000 hours or in just fuel and if you were running a 25 to 28hp gas the Yanmar will saw twice as fast in wide cuts. With my Isuzu diesel I've saved around $9000.00 in 6000 hours plus it cuts a lot faster than the 27hp Kohlor my mill came with. I think 47hp is overkill for 1 1/4 bands. Steve
check the net for engines. You should be able to pick up one for a lot less. There is a guy that sells low time Kubotas for around 1500 last time I looked. He is up around KC area. Check fleabay
I have been drooling too and it is a LT50 that has me drooling. I would definitely go with the yanmar 35HP diesel.
I have run a coupe of LT40 supers with 35 and 52 respectively and I really don't see where the big HP really improved anything but the fuel consumption
BUT when I compare feature for feature I think I would end up with and LT40 Super instead of the LT50. Just not enough productivity difference to justify the extra $$. AND when I look at it that way another 2000 on my mill and id have a full super anyway.
The LT50 has a chain turner and vertical log stops, both a big plus. Steve
I still don't know why I didn't get a 50, the 40 super is so close in price last time I checked, maybe a difference of $2k...when you're spending that kind of money, it isn't that much of a difference and you might as well be happy with the purchase. Besides, it will pay for itself, it's not like getting a fancy car or a boat that never makes you $. These are $ making machines and they will pay for themselves so get what you want. That being said, go diesel. You change the oil less, you fill it up with fuel less, you work on it less, it will last 3x as long as a gas job, it's just better. If a gas engine was better they'd be more expensive! lol
I asked the same question here about a year and a half ago...I was, for the most part, advised to buy as much as I could afford, and get the diesel...I did. The only regret I have is that I bothered to consider gas. More torque, unbelievable fuel mileage. My FF brothers told me the diesel engine option will pay for itself in fuel savings alone, not taking into account the added benefits...
If the price is that close the 50 is worth it for sure. Not that it would get me a lot more BF But i really do like the chain tuner and the vertical side supports. and it would for sure get ordered with the wireless remote.
I bought a lt40 gas new last year, I like it but after running a friends diesel for about 5mbf finishing up a job for him when he broke his ankle I wish I had bought the diesel upgrade. More torque and fuel consumption are the things that got my attention.
Yes.
You're making MY mouth water. :)
I always tease Garry at the dealer in BC that they didn't do their job when they sold me my LT40. if he would have set me up to do my training on a the LT40 super with the yanmar on it that is what I woulda gone home with I am sure. But all thing considered at this point I still love my mill.
The extra torque would have been real handy cutting 3X12X12 spruce bull rails this weekend. Wide cuts is where you notice the difference in the "weight" the horses can pull.
To put it simply, diesels are better suited to portable sawmill applications than gas engines. Diesels have a better torque curve, so they don't bog down as easily when you encounter tough knots, increasingly wide cuts, etc.
Yanmar has been around for a long time and makes excellent diesel engines.
I didn't get one when I bought my last mill in 2006, and I've regretted that decision ever since.
I always like to go bigger than what I need when I am looking. Than a year or 2 later,it's just what I needed. Hard to say what you will be sawing a few years down the road.
Thanks for all the responses. We run the LT40 right now but mostly stationary work. I talked with Wood Mizer over the weekend and they recommended the LT70 if I'm not going portable, but I'm a one man team and I don't think I'd be able to keep up with it! :D The main reason I'm leaning toward the 50 over the 40 super is the chain turner and the vertical side supports. Plus I already have an older 40 so I need a bigger number ;D
Luke, if you are stationary, have you considered an electric motor option?
Quote from: Ohio_Bill on August 24, 2016, 08:14:45 AM
Luke, if you are stationary, have you considered an electric motor option?
Yea I have but with one small issue... I don't have electric in the barn. Any type of electric I use is fed with a generator. I'm about 450 feet off the road and running electric back there would cost about 15k.... But we're running out of room quickly and I've been considering moving the operation into our side field. With that move, I'll cut the land off of our residence, zone it commercial, and get the electric lines run for free. But converting a 10 acre field into a log and lumber yard wont be cheap so that's a little ways into the future. :)
That's one of the reasons I ask about the diesel, my edger is gas, future edger will be gas, generator is gas, tractor is gas, so do I stick with a gas mill for ease of running the same fuel for all or upgrade to the diesel. But it looks like we'll be going diesel.
Just wondering, why is the future edger gas??
There are several ways to look at the diesels cost. Fact is they cost more initionally, but if a guy uses it much it pays for itself, and then it will probably pay for itself again if and when a guy sells it or trades abain.
from your comments it sounds like you are at the point where you need to make the commitment to convert your energy supply to diesel or electric. Postponing that evolutionary change in the growth of your operation is a costly decision in the long haul that you will pay for many times over in sticking to a gasoline policy for energy requirements. Diesel is the better choice and electric is the best choice(IF you can establish a reasonable infrastructure investment)
I have found that the conversion cost to diesel for me is only slightly less costly than going to electric on the property that I am looking to buy. But then the 3 phase service line is on the west property line.
In setting up a commercial home based "artisan" business I can qualify for a subsidy to get the 3 phase power installed by power company to disconnect/transfer switch for stand by generator connection and the junction box that I can connect any thing on the yard up too with out the power company doing the hookup beyond the junction box.
Make sure to check out all of the cost for 3 phase, another mill that I saw for has 3 phase that has rather steep monthly charges weather they use it much or not. Steve
Quote from: ladylake on August 24, 2016, 05:11:56 PM
Make sure to check out all of the cost for 3 phase, another mill that I saw for has 3 phase that has rather steep monthly charges weather they use it much or not. Steve
Good good point and thanks for the heads up, Didn't think of that but I do have to convince the little lady that it is a worth while switch from a monster house in town to a 1200 sq ft (a 1/3 of the current home) bungalow in the country.
Gas or Diesel? No question that my vote goes for the Diesel. The initial bite will be long forgotten with your fuel, longevity and service savings.
Having learned my lesson with my sawmill, when I bought an edger it was a diesel (22HP Kubota).
When I was edging 1" material it was just coasting. Whenever I put a two-inch board through, the engine just dug in and started to work for a change. Didn't slow down at all.
What model engine is the 36 HP Yanmar that WM currently uses?
Regarding the LT 50 with the vertical side supports, my neighbor (who I cant figure out for the life of me why he is not on here) has one and he says the vertical doesnt have the capability of upgrading to close supports for a sawing shorter logs.
Granted this doesnt happen often but it is a plus.
Chain turner is definitely a plus.
He has been sawing since about 1983, portable and has lots of work..
I thought you could get flip up manual backstops for the middle on 50 and 70?
I vote diesel. No fuel, carb, or ignition issues. Yes diesel can gel or get water in it, but that can be controlled, not like the issues with ethanol fuels.
Dave my neighbor told me no upgrade is available according to WM.
My only concern is with my Perkapillar.
why does it need a crankshaft support bearing?
Other that that issue what I love is, lots of power and I only have to fill up every other day.
My lt50 has the vertical stops and the close flip stops like the lt40. They are manual but that is ok as I hate the short stuff. One thing for sure is I am glad I got the 47hp diesel. I posted the question to the forum on if I should get the smaller diesel or the 47hp. All I can say is thanks to everyone that said 47hp!
Quote from: Ga Mtn Man on August 25, 2016, 09:29:45 AM
What model engine is the 36 HP Yanmar that WM currently uses?
Off the top of my head, mine is a 3TNV88
Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on August 25, 2016, 05:29:36 PM
My only concern is with my Perkapillar.
why does it need a crankshaft support bearing?
Perkins engines, while a good engine, were never Cat engines. They had a number of "half finished" systems that made for annoying problems, MOST of which Cat fixed in the take over that filled a niche that cat had few options for. One issue they didn't (couldn't) fix was the crankshaft journal size/width in the I4 and I6, which would have required a complete new block. The main bearings on the Perkapillar are a bit too narrow to take much side thrust.
That is why it is a good idea to add the Woodmizer end shaft bearing kit. It is the fence at the top of the cliff rather than the ambulance in the valley.
I have run a good many LT 40's in every configuration . I own a Kabota super and I can tell you I will never go back ! The LT50 is a beautiful mill ,in paticular the vertical back supports and chain turner . The Yanmars are the best running engines I know of and seem to run clean without any residue build up on the engine after time . The yanmar on the 40 is smaller than my Kabota but will out perform it hands down . I recomend that if you do upgrade get the command center mill not a walk . Your cut rate will be crazy fast and walking all day on a job will wear you out ! You only live once ! I would go for the whole shot !
Thanks again for all the replies! Like I said I haven't worked much with diesel but that appears to be the way to go. The new edger comes this fall, which now will be a diesel, and the new mill comes spring/early summer. As we build up, I'm now looking up diesel generators and I can't believe the hours and efficiency they're getting. The 14,000 watt Isuzu is rated for 30,000 hours... or 8 hours a day, 7 days a week... for 10 years... 1 gallon an hour if fully loaded, or a half gallon on a half load. Crazy stuff. Thanks again for all the recommendations! 8)
I know a guy who works on marine diesels that had a Kubota gen set come in for running rough. He put new injectors in it and tuned it up and put it back in service. It had over 48,000 hours on it.
I have seen few I6 150 to 200 HP JD, IH, Cummins and Cat diesels that run irrigation pumps or gensets that have as high as 50 ish thousand PLUS hours on them to first rebuild.
30 to 40 K hours to first rebuild is not uncommon and when the rebuild is done properly they will do that many hours again.
The natural gas versions of those engines get the high hours on the bottom end but the heads will need service about every 10K to 15K hours running on NG.
The fuel cap on my old Cat D7 had these words cast into the top:
Buy clean fuel
Keep it clean
Follow that advice, change your oil and your filters when then manual tells you to, and you know 90% of what you need to know about a diesel.
Mind you, running the fuel tank empty is not a great idea either, unless you want to learn all about priming your fuel system. Not nearly as forgiving as a gas engine.
To change the subject just a little, on my gas is seem like it burns just as much gas running by myself or with a helper. With the helper it runs hard without slowing down much and by myself I turn it down while unloading and putting logs on loader.
But I do vote diesel by far, my gas engine is a burner.
Would you buy a farm tractor or skidder with a gas engine?
My 47hp LT50 sips fuel....I don't even think about it.
Pushing through tough logs, it doesn't skip a beat.
Would you buy an elephant with a gas engine? No way! So why buy a sawmill with one?
Quote from: 4x4American on August 27, 2016, 08:55:02 AM
Would you buy an elephant with a gas engine? No way! So why buy a sawmill with one?
Electric elephants are the way to go ;D
Does anybody know the torque on the 35.9 Diesel. Thanks
The chart shows 120 Nm (Newton metres) of torque at 1800 rpm. For us foot pound folks, 1 Nm = .738 lb/ft. which equates to 88.56 lb/ft at 1800 rpm.
What I thought was interesting, is this engine has a flat torque curve, only varying about 15lb/ft from 1200 rpm through 2800 rpm. Pretty good puller
Thanks for the information 👍
A diesel or natural gas generator were brought up so I'll ask the question I've always had. Would it be smart or feasible to have a generator to run your electric sawmill, edger and anything else you may need? Only one engine to maintain and it stays outside the shed as does the noise and fumes. Or is that a dumb idea? I've got natural gas at my future mill site or a diesel generator would be an option. But maybe an expensive one I dont know never looked in to it
Quote from: OH logger on January 27, 2022, 07:33:32 AM
A diesel or natural gas generator were brought up so I'll ask the question I've always had. Would it be smart or feasible to have a generator to run your electric sawmill, edger and anything else you may need? Only one engine to maintain and it stays outside the shed as does the noise and fumes. Or is that a dumb idea? I've got natural gas at my future mill site or a diesel generator would be an option. But maybe an expensive one I dont know never looked in to it
Good option if three phase isn't available. Many small circle mills are run that way.
That would be my ideal scenario. I may try to get one of my gensets setup to run my edger and a few other things around the mill this year.
I seriously doubt that you can generate power and compete with the grid on cost.
I do know that "whole house" emergency generators will cost more in a week than a month's grid power.
I've been down this road in recent months. I'm getting ready to install two more 3 phase machines and have quotes on my desk. Your mileage may vary but this is my situation.
If 3 phase power is required, the construction costs are cost prohibitive for many. That's especially true for a part time business that has to build new 3 phase service.
We had to contribute "customer aid in construction" to get a new service including the transformer, $9,500 up front. From there the cost to the motor starter and machine was nearly $40,000 to the electrical contractor.
Commercial 3 phase power isn't billed like residential power. The billing has a high percentage based on start up amperage draw - in other words that brief time the highest power consumption occurs is weighted heavily in the billing. Ever wonder why some companies start operating at odd hours or rarely shutdown? It is to avoid startup during peak consumption on the grid when commercial rates are highest.
One 800 amp service costs $1,500 per month. That's running 10-12 hours 5 days per week for 20 days.
A generator can be a viable alternative for part time operations. Not so much for a business that may run 10 or more hours 5 or 6 days per week.
That's pretty much the deal. If you are using it on a continuous basis, it works. In my case, it simply isn't available, and would be cost prohibitive in an intermittent use scenario. Using a genset I know exactly what my cost per hour is for juice, and it only costs me when I use it. I think Ron Wenrich was running a full time operation on a genset.
Good to know. I thought about a phase converter for the eventual mill but a generator would run the Edger too and anything else I may want to add. 3 phase a
Is a LONG ways from my log yard. And this would be a part time thing, only seasonal. Would a natural gas generator be cheaper to own/operate than a diesel? WhT you guys think???
Whichever way you go for fuel on a generator, make sure you get a kW Rating of "Prime" or "Primary" instead of a "Standby".
A Prime generator is intended to be a primary power source. A Standby generator is just that.