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How accurate is simple set?

Started by DGK, January 11, 2014, 08:54:38 PM

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DGK

I am considering installing simple set on my LT40. For those of you with experience, I am interested in your opinion on how accurate it is, ease of use, etc. When I saw boards to be run through my planer moulder, I drop the head 1" at a time to end up (hopefully) with a board that dries to about 7/8th of an inch. If accurate, I can run it in a single pass to end up with 3/4 stock. I could cut at a full 1" with the simple set and hog off a little more in the planer. The reason for the 1" drop is that it makes  the math easy.
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

Ga Mtn Man

I spent some time testing the SimpleSet for accuracy and repeatability when I first got my LT40.  It was never off by more that 1/32" except for the bottom board which is only as accurate as your starting point using the manual scale.  You can select what ever board thickness you desire in 1/16" increments.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

highleadtimber16

I use it everyday, and I've never had a problem. Saves a lot of time and thinking.
2011 Wood-Mizer LT 40 hyd w/ 12' Extension,
EG 200 Wood-Mizer
Cutting Old Growth Cedar from Queen Charlotte Islands.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

If I set mine at 1".....my boards are about 15/16"  thick.
I don't worry about the bottom board......shucks, if your cant is ready to saw boards saw away. You can trim that last board when you get to it.....or like you said, hog it out on the planer.

I saw primarily Barn and Farm lumber. I love my S.S.

My Simple Set started acting stupid one time.....it would not drop or raise.
There is a Positioning Sensor behind the panel. I unplugged it and blew the dust out and plugged it back up.....has never yet failed.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

DGK

Thanks for the replies. It sounds like the SS is quite accurate. Is there a means of dialling in kerf thickness or does it use a fixed amount? I know when I am milling and drop the head to the next board, I always drop below and then raise to the setting. This seems more accurate than just lowering. Does the SS drop & raise or just drop?
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

barbender

My understanding is that the Simple Set is very similar in function to the 1st generation setworks on my 97 super. You can program your presets by 1/16" increments, and you have 4 presets. You can also change the kerf value to match the set of your blades. It works great, I have to keep an eye on mine but that is because of a mechanical problem caused by the previous owner. The encoder on mine has a sprocket that rides on the head lift chain and there are things out of alignment there that cause a misread at times. This is not the fault of the setworks, but it will cause it to intermittently be off by 1/16". Another thing that is nice is that on my mill, the head up/down is so fast that it can take a little fiddling to get right on the mark, whereas the setworks has a electronic braking system that ramps down so that it lands right on the money.That can save a lot of time. I would recommend it.
Too many irons in the fire

Dave Shepard

I've had people wonder about the setworks, and if it's really necessary. I learned on a manual LT40, you had all kinds of time to stop and land on a scale mark. Not on a Super. Besides, with the remote I would need binoculars to see the scale. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

ronwood

I have the simple setworks and like it. Only 2 presets and there and no kerf setting can be entered. If I want a 1 in rough sawn board I set the drop to 1 1/8 in.

Ron

Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

postville

Just installed one on an LT40 this week.  Took 2 hours to install. Works great, probably upped production 20%. Took about 1 hour to get used to it.
You can stay focused on looking for grade. Seems to be quite accurate. If you are sawing everyday, I would recommend getting one.
LT40 25hp Kohler, Gehl 6635, Valby grapple, Ford 4600, Farmi winch, Stihl saws

DGK

I'll have to think about this one. :-\
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

barbender

There are two ways I think the setworks really speed things up- first, when you open up a face, you don't have to do any math or move your manual scale to figure the next cut, just hit the down lever. Second, when you are gigging back, all you have to think about is clearing the log and hitting down, once you get sawed down to a cant you can really get cookin'.
Too many irons in the fire

scleigh

I own and saw with an LT28 manual mill. I learned on an LT40 hydraulic mill with setworks and it is really nice, but I would like to hear what you guys think on my only question about setworks.
Once you get the log worked into a cant, and you know what size boards you're sawing for, how do you center the pith using setworks, or do you even consider it?

I know there has been much debate about the pith issue and I've split it with good and bad results, I guess it depends on species, stress in log and desired result.

Magicman

I have a "target" with each face opening which is determined before that face is opened.  My starting height is always determined by that target.


 
By measuring beforehand I always know where the blade will enter or exit the log.


 
The first face has been opened and two flitches sawn.


 
The second face is opened and flitches sawn down to the desired cant.


 
The third face is opened and flitches sawn down to the desired cant which is now split for sawing 2X4's.


 
The fourth face is opened and 2X4's are being sawn.

The Setworks took me to each desired target that I had drawn on the log end before any faces were opened. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: scleigh on January 12, 2014, 10:24:11 PM

Once you get the log worked into a cant, and you know what size boards you're sawing for, how do you center the pith using setworks, or do you even consider it?

Centering of the pith is done when you make your opening cuts as MM has shown with the second and third photo. level the pitch then find your opening face and go from there.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

scleigh

Thanks for the pictures and explanation Magicman. I need to put more thought into my opening cut.

RayMO

If you are sawing a lot of the same thickness and are worried about doing the math for each cut all you need to do is use a fine felt tip marker and do the math once. Put a dot at all your correct increments (on scale) up to the thickest cut you will need and then just saw and drop to your next mark/cut.
If you have a couple or more common cuts you can color code with different colored felt markers.
Father & Son Logging and sawing operation .

Magicman

Quote from: scleigh on January 13, 2014, 06:46:41 AMThanks for the pictures and explanation Magicman. I need to put more thought into my opening cut. 
The point that I was trying to make is that on the 1st and 3rd face opening, whether the flitch makes a board is not taken into consideration.  The height of the openings are determined to reach the correct target within the log/cant.

I used more lumber crayon with this log to illustrate the target and projected cant.  My Setworks and SimpleSet are very similar and the accuracy of both can be completely trusted to repeatedly and accurately reach the desired target.

One thing that may not be immediately noticed is that the log's pith is badly off center.  The problem that that (Tom) might cause is eliminated by the log setup. The "horns" are on the loader side and will be taken off with the second face opening, thus eliminating the thicker sapwood side.  (Some of the stress is noticed with the slab in the 3rd picture.)  The actual saw through will be from the "hump" side of the log but the three cants might very well have to be flipped 180° if stress is evident as the sawing progresses.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

barbender

Even when using my setworks, I have a cheat sheet of target heights to make opening cuts on to reach the desired cant thickness and width. For instance, on MagicMan's log in the picture, for the width, if those are finished size 2x4's, the width is 3 1/2" x 3+1/4" for the 2 kerfs, so 10 3/4". If you are going to take 1 1/2" material with the opening cuts, add 1 5/8" for each flitch. I hope this makes sense, I basically have a different set of numbers for each cant width I will be sawing, and material thickness.
Too many irons in the fire

Magicman

I too have a cheat sheet that gives me the starting heights to reach many targets.  Most I have used so much that the sheet is not necessary.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

scleigh

I'm glad to hear you more experienced sawyers say you either have a cheat sheet or have a number to shoot for on cants.
I've been driving past my stops in the UPS truck all day doing the math in my head for different size cants. Once I thought I had it figured out, the thought arose, what happens when the pith is off centered?
My head is hurting from all the sawing I did in my mind at work today!

Tom the Sawyer

I used a cheat sheet for years(and still have it on my clipboard) but if you need multiple sizes, like leaving an 8/4 on the deck when milling a different thickness board, you are back to mental math.

I found a very helpful app for my Android smart phone - Sawmill Calculator.  Plug in your kerf, target board thickness, log height, and desired deck board thickness if different than the target boards = it gives you all the cut heights.
Pretty slick app.  smiley_thumbsup
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

Magicman

Quote from: scleigh on January 13, 2014, 08:51:03 PMOnce I thought I had it figured out, the thought arose, what happens when the pith is off centered? 
Nothing is perfect and that includes logs.  Sometimes you just have to do the best that you can with what you have. 
With SYP framing lumber, sometimes you just have to center the log and saw.  The pith may very well be on one side on one log end and on the other side on the other end, or it might be tight against one side.   :-\
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

barbender

Quote from: Magicman on January 13, 2014, 01:40:58 PM
I too have a cheat sheet that gives me the starting heights to reach many targets.  Most I have used so much that the sheet is not necessary.   ;D
That's 'cause you get the pleasure of spending way more time with your mill ;) Every time I start to feel like I am getting the hang of mine, it gets parked for 3 months and then I  start all over. Oh well  :)
Too many irons in the fire

barbender

Tom, I'll have to take a look at that app.
Too many irons in the fire

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