Endangerd species near you

Sawyerfortyish · February 17, 2003, 05:49:39 AM

We all have heard about the spotted owl and I think I heard something about a bat in PA. On my farm and my neibors farm the state bioligist have been knocking on our doors to look in a marshy area on between our farms for the endangerd bog turtle. So far we have told them to get lost. Personaly I don,t want to find anything endangerd on my farm! But since someone found one crossing the road between our farms it getting harder to keep the state officials out. After all how much is land worth and could it even be sold after they find something. Not that I want to sell I,m the fourth generation to farm this farm. But I think it would hinder my farming and sawmill work. Does anyone else have to work around something like this?

dan-l-b · February 17, 2003, 06:07:42 AM

Wow S40, it amazes me how sometimes when big brother sinks thier teeth in something, inocent folks, with thier lives and livelihoods at stake are hung out to dry. It seems to me such a contridiction into the purpose of government. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Dan

Texas Ranger · February 17, 2003, 06:54:40 AM

We have the same problem with Red Cockcaded Woodpeckers, and Houston toads. In the '50's they taught kids to duck and cover, there aint no way to duck and cover when the epa or any of the other three letter groups get ahold of a idea. There can be some severe limitations attached to lands, being cooperative with them may help, but I doubt it.

Ron Wenrich · February 17, 2003, 07:23:21 AM

I have a sneaky suspicion that the bog turtle is more numerous than they expect. It has been a great species to hold up development. If there is any type of marsh area, chances are good that the bog turtle is around, and development will be shut down.

The Indiana bat was used to shut down some logging operations on the Allegheny NF. They did their study, and found that the logging wouldn't disturb it. Their favorite nesting areas are under bridges. Logging was continued as a judge threw the arguement out.

We also have an endangered butterfly that is only in a certain area of a military base. They have stopped tanks and logging. I'm not too sure how that is standing right now.

Too date, there is no need to look for endangered species for any logging jobs. Environmentalists just aren't having that big of an impact here in the East.

Frank_Pender · February 17, 2003, 07:23:54 AM

Tell them to bring a lunch, as it might be their "last supper". ;)
Sometimes I think there are most freedom in Eastern Siberia than here. >:(

Tom · February 17, 2003, 08:04:42 AM

There must be something in the air in February. We talked about this last year at this exact time on one of Ron Scotts threads. :D

Last February

OneWithWood · February 17, 2003, 09:01:51 AM

There are two species that could halt any logging activities on my property if the State or Federal Biologists ever find them on my property They are the Indiana Brown Bat and the Bald Eagle. Neither species is truly endangered but people get attached to them. Actually an Eagle does not have to nest directly on my property. Any nest within one mile could trigger a problem. As for the Indiana Brown Bat, I like bats and I put up boxes for them on the section of my property that is Classified Wildlife Habitat. Because my logging operation is very selective and small scale I hope I can win any argument with a biologists over the bat. The recent case Ron referred to could come in handy.

Norm · February 18, 2003, 04:21:35 AM

They are building a new bridge across the Iowa River for US hwy 20 on some land a friend used to own until they confiscated it (eminent domain). They are not allowed to use cranes to put the bridge deck on because they have some bald eagles that are nesting in the area and it might disturb them. So they are using a very expensive techniqe to build it. If they see an eagle in the area they have to shut down the equipment until it leaves. When he told me this I thought he was nuts then they ran a story about it on the local news, guess I know who's nuts now.

Noble_Ma · February 18, 2003, 07:04:10 AM

They finished rebuilding RT140 in my area. The state spent over 1 milliion dollars on a culvert to allow the spotted salamander to cross the street without getting squashed :-/ I have a strong suspicion that the critters that eat the spotted salamanders, have found out they only have to wait at the other end of the culvert for dinner in late spring ;D

leweee · February 18, 2003, 07:29:10 AM

tell me how the goverment trains wildlife to cross at culverts . better yet how do they get deer,bear,&moose to cross at them yeller signs? ???

Noble_Ma · February 18, 2003, 08:24:43 AM

Believe it or not, they've been studying the migratory habits of the salamanders for a long time. I guess there is a high concentration of them in this area. I haven't read if the culverts working but than again I don't really check for it either ;D

Tom · February 18, 2003, 10:31:00 AM

welcome to the forum, Leweee.

I've wondered about those deer crossing signs too. I know that the signs don't work for the tractors. I've seen a lot of them crossing at other places. :D

Bibbyman · February 18, 2003, 12:57:25 PM

Last time I was down in Athens, GA, the locals told me that a woman called into the highway department wanting them to remove the deer crossing sign in from of her place because it wasn't a safe place to cross as the deer just keep getting hit there.

They told it like it was a true story and I've never caught them in a lie but then... :

Welcome Leweee ;)

Tagerts_crossing · February 18, 2003, 02:31:12 PM

Hey their onewithwood I know what you mean the bald eagles are on this side of the woods too. I tell people that its a hawk that is molting, dont want the DNR stomping around but the eagles are sure a nice sight soring over the fields.

Fla._Deadheader · February 18, 2003, 04:14:44 PM

Tom and Charlie can back me up here. There's a road called Alligator Alley, that runs from Ft. Lauderdale to Naples. WELLLLLLL, the brains in this State built Culverts under the roadway, which is, BTW, nearly ALL wetlands, so the Florida Panthers could cross the road. They did a surveillance and found that the cats weren't using the Culverts. NOW, the "head" brain decides to put a string of LIGHTS through the culverts. He figgered that the cats couldn't see what was in there and were probably afraid to enter ?? Ya'll just THINK your officials are "Brilliant".

leweee · February 18, 2003, 09:00:58 PM

speaking of potential roadkill. don't do a body &paint on your old pickup.it seems to attacked critters,especialy after dark.two close calls with multipal deer.missed them but messed my huggies iykwim.

:

swampwhiteoak · February 20, 2003, 08:21:20 AM

There is no doubt the Indiana Bat is endangered and declining in numbers. What the enviro's don't like to mention is that it most likely has little to do with any logging operations. Indiana bat's use the same hibernacula (that's the fancy word for caves) year after year. Speluking activities have likely been a big part of the decline but no one know's for sure. Researchers tallying the numbers year after year prolly isn't helping either.

Roost habitat for Indiana bats is loose barked trees like rough barked hickories or white oaks and snags. They can use trees as small as 6" dbh. There clearly is no shortage of the summer habitat and although the females seem to return the the same general area, they aren't particularily attached to any particular stand.

Wayne National Forest and most logging jobs on Ohio state forests must be done between Nov. 15 and May (I think those are the right dates, I'm not a state forest land manager so I might be off a bit) to ensure no one accidentaly cuts down a roost tree.

Little critters are notoriosly hard to get a handle on as far as preferences, range, and numbers. What they have been able to figure out is that the Indiana bats like about 75% crown cover so that the roost trees pick up some heat. So in theory a little thinning should help them out. Of course they also found a roost tree in a suburban Cleveland yard, someone must have forgot to tell that one what it liked.

Other than winter disturbance to hibernacula no one is quite sure why the numbers are declining although most bat populations are down across the board with exception of the little brown bat and the big brown bat (they like barns, human habitations, ect.). Hypothesis I've heard say that invertebrate populations might be down due to ag chemicals, but who knows?

Here's an interesting tidbit on endangered plants. One of Ohio's endangered plants is Running Buffalo Clover. Guess where they find it? Old logging roads.

Never heard of the bog turtle, you guys keep that thing in PA.

Sawyerfortyish · February 20, 2003, 10:22:00 AM

My brother is in the hide business and has been shipping deer hides out of the country. The company buying the hides needed to have a statment on the fish and wildlife shipping papers that the whitetail deer was not endangerd under somthing called the washington convention. He went from one offical to another and finally got the head honcho for the U S fish and wildlife on the phone and was told that the whitetail deer is endangerd in parts of the US mostly western states. And that statement was not to be put on the shipping papers or they would pull his shipping licence.
I thought I heard everything but when he told me this I had to laugh :D :D When you think about it though I would not consider them endangerd any place in the US just because it,s mule deer country instead of whitetail country.

Texas Ranger · February 20, 2003, 12:39:20 PM

A case came out of Washington State where a gentleman had been arrested for killing a Northern Spotted Owl. In due time it came to court, and the gentleman was standing before the judge. The gentleman gave the usually song and dance and explained that he didn't know it was a NSO, and it was on the endangered list. The judge listened and thought that the guy was on the up and up, gave him a full account of the legalities of such actions and then asked.

"What did you do with the owl?"

Man answere, "Why judge, I ate it!"

Judge says, "You ate it, you cannot eat endagered species, you have to turn them in to the authorities!"

Again the man professed his innocence and asked for lienency, which the judge was about to grant when he asked the last question.

"What did it taste like?:

Man answered, "Well, judge, sorta like a cross between bald eagle and whooping crane!" 8)

Tillaway · February 20, 2003, 04:24:04 PM

Sawyer 40
There are allot of whitetail deer in Oregon and Washington. The are all over on the far eastern sides of the state. These are Eastern Whitetail, an introduced species, not native to the area.

The Columbian Whitetail is native to Oregon and Washington and only lives in two or three counties total. Columbia and maybe Clatsop counties in Oregon and Wahkiakum county in Washington. They live on islands in the lower Columbia river tidelands and the wetland areas directly adjectent to the river there. They are tiny little deer, probably smaller than the Florida Whitetails that live in the swamps. I have seen quite a few. They are listed because they only live there. There are also Whitetails in Douglas county Oregon but I don't recall thier origin, they may be native but I thought they had a limited season on them.

I met some Bat biologists this summer in LaPorte, CA. They are independent contractors that work all over the US. These folks claim to fame is that they are the only ones that have the technology to determine bat species from the echolocation used by the bats. The set up microphones in an area they want to survey and record the echolocation pulses, they then run these through a computer with a program they wrote that plots the waves and is able to determine species. If they find a rare species they then set up nets in the area and try to catch one for a positive ID and to take measurements and possibly even collar for tracking.