Sponsors:

Poll: Ban incadescent lights bulbs

Started by Ron Wenrich, April 22, 2007, 07:04:44 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ron Wenrich

Poll expires:  May 7, 2007

Just in time for Earth Day.  Australia and California are considering banning the incandescent light bulb.  Good idea or not?
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dan_Shade

bad idea, some of us use light bulbs for more than light, light bulbs keep things from freezing all across north america.

I was madder than a wet hen when I found out that the "responsible" lightbulbs have mercury in them.  just more rubbish from the envirowackos.

However, I think the CF bulbs are a good idea, but the masses should be aware of the other issues (disposal) related to them.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

beenthere

My understanding is the dimmer controls on lights only work on incandescent bulbs.

Let people make that choice for themselves, don't need to make that decision for them.
The fluorescent bulb package says equivalent to 100 W incandescent bulb, and the level of light is more like a 50 W bulb.

If saving electricity is a goal, then cut out the multitude of lights shining in our parking lots and sales lots in every town and city. If security is the name of the game, put in good motion detectors. Then the lights will come on as people walk through. Let it be dark at night, unless light is needed. My 2 cents.

Same with farms and now the new country homes with all-night "security" lights. Shut 'em off, but put in motion detectors.....IMO.  :)   Then if the light comes on, there may be a reason to check the area out.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Dave Shepard

I don't think they should be outright banned, but I do think we should try to use them only where they have a distinct advantage over CFs. I think we really need to do something about energy management.  I agree with beenthere about all the sevurity lights. I have run into many second home owners that appear absolutely terrified about what might be "out there" at night. I would be more worried about what might be "out there" back in NYC, not the possum ambling around the yard.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Jeff

The most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The waste from the spent : fluorescent bulbs is just as big of an environmental hazard or probably worse. At least the incandescents materials for the most part are inert. How many fluorescent bulbs will simply get broke and put into the environment when that is all we have, then how much energy will be spent to prevent or clean up that mess.  Give me a break. Don't mess with one of the devices in our lives that give us the least trouble and the most return. Makes me want to go as deep in the woods as I can until the rest of the wackos go away.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Part_Timer

Beenthere  I have them in the back bathroom and they do not work on the dimmers.

I have some of both.  I use them where I like them and don't use em where I don't want to.  The last thign I need is someone else telling me what to do.  They are interfearing on Katie rights when  they start doiing that :) :)
Peterson 8" ATS.
The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

DanG

This is just another ploy of the enviro-terror groups to get morons to send them their money.  As was mentioned in another thread, it is time for someone to make a documentary expose' of the environmental groups.  Did you know it is currently illegal to throw a flourescent bulb in the trash?  What will we do with all the expired ones?
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Sprucegum

I feel the darkness closing in on me already   candle_smiley

Onthesauk

May be a moot question soon anyway.  My understanding is that they are very near to a white LED light bulb.  Uses far less power then even the flourescent bulbs.

I'm up to about 40 percent flourescent on the property now but I"ve got a lot of dimmer switches in the house where I can't use them.  They work well for a lot of applications, (I even use them with motion sensors out back.)
John Deere 3038E
Sukuki LT-F500

Don't attribute irritating behavior to malevolence when mere stupidity will suffice as an explanation.

Brucer

Well, speaking as a sustaining member of the Green Party of BC, I gotta say ... "No way!"

Too DanG many politicians and well-intentioned people jump on the bandwagon without checking out the whole picture. What's the energy consumption of a Compact Flourescent bulb over it's lifetime (including manufacture and disposal)? What's the comparative damage to the environment -- making and disposing of them? What about the 15% of the population (including me) that get serious eye fatigue in a flourescent environment?

"Up north" here, in the winter the "inefficent" incandescent bulbs just add a bit of heat to the house and take some of the load off the electric furnace. In the summer I don't use the lights much 'cause I've got lots of windows.

And as many folks have already pointed out, dimmers don't work with flourescent bulbs. Gee, why do I have dimmer switches on my lights anyway? Could it be to adjust the light levels to what I need and no more?

Time for a little critical thinking, says I.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Don_Papenburg

The cost of manufacture is a moot point as you have paid that when you bought the bulb. Disposal , well that is what our county roads are for from the looks of things.
  Iuse more of them latly  ,but I make sure to get Daylight bulbs 6000K and over or they stay in the store.   They work great in the trouble light .  Hold up better than rough service bulbs don't turn the reflector into a meat burner.   Actualy I prefer them over most of the 2 tube floresant shop lights that I have purchased in the last few years.
I am with others on the useless waste of lighting of parking lots streets business and farm yards.  motion detectors  motion detectors and more motion detectors .
Forget the law , let the free(controlled) market decide.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Fla._Deadheader


You use the same amount of electricity WITH a dimmer , as you do without. It is simply a rheostat. They get very worm inside the box.

  Led's are already on the market. Most large trucks use them on the rear, and traffic signals are switching to LED's.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

OneWithWood

I have issues with flourescents, though I use them where warranted.  My issues are mostly noise and disposal.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Corley5

I'm not in favor of banning them  ::)  I have replaced them all with the curly flourescents in the house.  I did it to save some on the electric bill.  I've seen no real difference  :(
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

submarinesailor

As a Certified Energy Manager, should I step into this lively discussion???? ??? ::) ??? ::) ??? ::)

Several of you jumped on the mercury thing; please take a close look at the DOE web site about CFL's: DOE CFL Web Site.  And before you make the statement "that it's a government web site", the Association of Energy Engineers (AEE) also strongly recommends them.  This is a non-partisan group that certifies people around the world in energy management.

As for the poll, I voted "Yes"– But I KNOW there should be some exceptions:
-   Dan had a very good point about freeze protection.  BUT, there are much more energy efficient ways of freeze protection.  Heat tape and magnetic heaters are just a couple. Oh, BTW, I'm not an envirowacko – I hate them envirowackos as much if not more than most of you.  I just like saving money.
-   Beenthere, we now have dimmable CFL's.  You just have to find them. CFL's do have a reduced output; at the initial startup and at the tale-end of their life.  Let them warm up and they have the same output (lumens) as incandescents.
-   Dan Papenburg is right about selecting the ones with a temperature of over 6000K.  They are so much better than the lower (<6000K) ones.
-   FDH is right on both counts – same amount of power on dimmer systems and LED's are great.  But at this time, CFL's are the best thing going, energy efficient wise, until LED become cost effective.

I don't and didn't mean to step on anyone's toes on this.  But based on all my energy training and experience. I believe CFL's are the way to go – until LED's are ready.

Bruce

wesdor

We built a new home 2 years ago and most of the bulbs are CFL.  Having said that, I am rarely in favor of making choices for other people (banning in this case).  As others have said, disposal is a real concern.  On the positive side, we seem to use much less electricity each month and that is good for the pocketbook.

The real point to me is that people should be able to make up their own minds.  Hopefully they will gather enough information to make the decision that is best for them.

mike_van

Up at the barn when it's zero F, the 100 w bulb comes on, the two tube shop light  won't for about a half hour.
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

Larry

100% florescent interior lighting with a combination of tubes and CFL's.  My electric bill say's smart choice, and my tired old eyes say thank you.  With quality[/i] new T8 fixtures using electronic ballasts say goodby to hum, flicker, and problems with cold starts.  Use proper tubes and the color rendition is excellent.

My head must of been in the sand about disposal of CFL's...checked out the site Bruce posted and there does seem to be a problem...minute compared to other things to fret bout.  Lets start a thread about using oil as blade lube. :-X

Guess my opinion is let the market place sort things out...doubt that will ever happen...government will step up and make the choice for us.  There already in the market place, as witness the migration from T12 to T8 low wattage bulbs.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

PineNut

My vote is NO. I agree that they can be more energy efficient. However for an incandescent light, I turn it on when I need it and then off when I don't. But the florescent lights typically get turned on early in the day and turned off at bedtime. They don't put out sufficient light until they warm up and many times by then, I don't need it any more.

Yes, you can get dimmable florescent lights but who wants to go to an electrical supply place and pay extra bucks to get them.

A similar example is low flow water faucets. When it flows fast enough, I turn the water on and collect what I need and then turn it off. But with low flow, I turn it on, place a container to catch the water and go do something else. Later I come back, turn the water off and pour out the excess. I may come back in a few minutes or on one occasion, it was the next morning (water running for 6 to 8 hours to collect one quart). So low flow or high efficient light bulbs is not always the best answer.

It is time politicians quit telling us how to live our lives.

Woodcarver

I voted no.  We use CFL's, but the lamp by my reading chair has a three-way incandescent and our closet lights are incandescents.

Legal disposal here requires that you take them to the local landfill and pay a fee for their disposal. About a 20 mile round trip for us.  I suspect most people are simply throwing them in the garbage.     
Just an old dog learning new tricks.......Woodcarver

DanG

Woodcarver, it'd be cheaper to box up your old wore out CFLs and mail them to your Congressman. ;D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Woodcarver

Sounds like a good idea to me, Dang.  :)
Just an old dog learning new tricks.......Woodcarver

Paschale

I voted no.  I find the light from florescent bulbs to be depressing.  If there was a florescent bulb that had light identical to an incandescent bulb, I would consider it.  I do have several in my shop, and they're quite bright, but I mix every other one with an incandescent bulb to make the light better.  They even fire up fairly quickly in the cold weather, which has been surprising to me.

So far, I've always been able to tell when a bulb was florescent, even through a lightshade.  I like clean, warm light, and florescent seems to be sterile, cold and feels incredibly antiseptic to me.  Until they have lights identical to incandescent, they better keep their hands off of my bulbs.   ;D
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

Tom

Ben Franklin would be rolling in his grave.

Jeff

Maybe, but more likely Tom Edison. ;)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30