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Started by johnnydeere99, November 26, 2019, 11:37:37 AM

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johnnydeere99

Greetings Group,

I just purchased a new Woodmizer LT35HD, Im new to this, but have run a few cedar logs I had laying around with amazing results. My question is, how are most sourcing their wood? I have a wood lot, but thats another project I hope to get to soon, until then Im looking for logs. I have contacted a few tree guys who have shown interest in dropping things off as they have to pay right now for disposal, but I have yet to see anything show. Anyone have luck other ways?

Thanks

moodnacreek

Be careful. Eventually you may be better off paying something for logs you can use. Tree men can load up your yard real fast with stuff you don't want.

johnnydeere99

haha thanks for the tip, I did not think about it that way. Luckily I am friends with the guys I have talked to, but I will be leery on future requests. 

SawyerTed

A few dollars to offset fuel/time for a tree service to deliver will help them remember you need logs, remember what kind of logs and how long you prefer the logs to be cut.  It also helps them remember not to bring tops and brush. If you are friends with the tree service guys, buy the crew a good lunch.  That goes a long way to getting logs you want.  It works for me.

Grading companies are a good source of logs especially when they have a few trees to remove.  I have good luck with a couple who will call me to come get logs.  They load them if I buck them to length.   In time you will start getting calls from people who will give you logs.

Facebook Marketplace is a good place to look for logs if you can pick them up.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Chuck White

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, johnnydeere99 and congrats on the new mill!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

kantuckid

Knowing your location will go a long ways toward placing full value on your posts. Good luck with your new mill.
Knowing where & how you'll market those logs (once cut) that you don't have yet, is maybe a great first step?
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

WV Sawmiller

   Congrats on the new LT35HD. Ditto on providing your location and more details. Be careful when sawing cedar not to stop up the sawdust chute. It is bad about that. Not a big problem just keep watching to make sure sawdust is coming out and if not stop and clean the fingers at the start of the exhaust hose.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

johnnydeere99

Thanks for the tips guys. I'm up here in northern Maine, I'll work on putting more info in my profile as I go along. Actually just got contacted by one guy today about bringing my tractor to a site with a bunch of logs. I guess I should be more patient.

thecfarm

I suppose you got the mill from Ross?
I would like some free logs too for my OWB.  Would save me the time cutting down my trees. But the trees I cut are no good for saw logs.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

offrink

While not for the sawmill, we chainsaw mill logs over 36". Usually they are much bigger (6'wide at the stump and 9'+ where it starts to branch is a bigger one) and they are almost always free because most people don't have the saw to cut them up for firewood and don't have the equipment to move/haul it. We had a burr oak that was 60" at the base and 80" where we trimmed it to at 12'. A large front end loader couldn't Budge it and you could watch the front tires compress about 6". The operator said the log was easily over 22,000 lbs. That one got slabbed there for 3 days before we could move it. All the logs we pick up are either by driving by or word of mouth. 

johnnydeere99

yup got it from Ross, and it looks like you a neighbors? I have a load of logs I am going to pick up on Monday which I am excited about. Looks like Ill have a good amount of wood to work on getting the training wheels off.

thecfarm

Oh no,Ross is on the bad side of Chesterville. :D :D Or that is what I tell him when I see him. I am on one side of Chesterville,the good side, :D and he's on the other side of Chesterville,the bad side. I own land in two towns and 2 counties.
I had my land logged and they was twitching white pine out of Fayette and bringing into Chesterville. For some reason there was a quarantine on white pine in Kennebec County,none in Franklin where Chesterville is.A phone call to the state forester made it all good.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Southside

Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Ron Wenrich

Here's my experience with "free" logs.  I worked with an outfit in Newark, NJ that sourced all their logs from tree guys.  They weren't allowed to charge for the material, as that would have made them a dump site.  Tipping fees were about $135/ton.  So, they got logs in all sorts of shapes, sizes and species.  

The business plan was to use urban logs, at no cost.  They used labor from the local jail, also at a reduced cost.  They would sell lumber to the local market and save money in transportation costs.  Their problem was in production, sales and training the help.

At first, their yard looked fairly decent.  This was their receiving area.  Tree guys came in and dumped things on a pile.  All kinds of different sizes and shapes.  Many logs were shorter than 8', since many tree guys didn't have the necessary equipment to lift longer logs.  There were a few guys that had logging trucks and were stellar suppliers.  But, these piles of logs had to be trimmed, scanned for metal, and sorted.  



  

With a ton of work the yard started to look like this:

 

But, then you'll also have piles of logs that look like this:

 

That's wood waste and scrap logs that were destined for a boiler for kilns that was never built.  The big logs to the right were all shorter than 8', mainly 6-7'.  They were all pretty big.  You need decent sized equipment to move them.  The predominant species was pin oak and sycamore.

Then hurricane Sandy hit.  Suddenly, the influx of logs was overwhelming.  They had to rent even more equipment.  The piles of wood buried the yard.  Eventually, they had to shut off all deliveries, even from the good suppliers.  The entire yard looked like this:



 

There were some nice logs in that pile.  But, there wasn't enough time or area to go through them.  The owners would not sell any logs, which partially led to their downfall.  The amount of metal that got through the metal detectors was also overwhelming.  

Your situation may be a bit different.  You would have to know what your city limitations are.  We had quite a few restrictions.  But, with all the extra work of scanning and trimming, free logs ain't free.  Not to mention the big differential in specie selection.  Sometimes those species are good, sometimes they're not.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

YellowHammer

In logs, you generally get what you pay for.  Tree guy logs can sometimes be good and sometimes be very bad.  I've never had any long term success getting a steady supply of quality logs from tree guys.  So I couldn't run a business with that supply.

I buy mine from loggers.   
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

johnnydeere99

Thanks for all the input gentlemen, Im amazed at the response you can get on this forum. Seems like a great group of people. I will take this knowledge a run with it.

Magicman

Quote from: johnnydeere99 on December 02, 2019, 10:20:52 AMIm amazed at the response you can get on this forum
This is not the ordinary forum.  The responses that you have gotten are very normal and what you can always expect here on the Forestry Forum. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Peter Drouin

Quote from: YellowHammer on November 29, 2019, 08:21:48 AM


I buy mine from loggers.  

Me too. You should see there faces when I tell them As you do, [they better be able to role on there own] :D ;) 

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

moodnacreek

Quote from: YellowHammer on November 29, 2019, 08:21:48 AM
In logs, you generally get what you pay for.  Tree guy logs can sometimes be good and sometimes be very bad.  I've never had any long term success getting a steady supply of quality logs from tree guys.  So I couldn't run a business with that supply.

I buy mine from loggers.  
I went through this years ago. The man power to metal detect and chainsaw work on mostly open grown logs is just too much. For lumber you need logs from the woods cut by loggers.

longtime lurker

Y'ever heard it said there ain't no such thing as a free lunch?
Logs are the same.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

YellowHammer

I get so many calls from "non log professionals" who say they have the best logs in the history of the world.  I get calls for people who have tree guys taking trees down while telling them the logs would be worth a fortune.  I get calls from people who just bought 2 acres of land and want to pay it off by selling me gnarly sweet gum and hackberry thinking they are walnut.  I've had tree guys bring me great walnut logs that were, in fact hickory or oak, and were so ugly I'd be embarrassed to burn them as firewood. :D :D

I had a guy call me the other day who had "thousands of veneer grade black walnut" on his couple acre plot, each one with "at least 750 bdft each" and although he knew market price, asked me how much more I was going to pay for them".   What???????

I get so tired of the phone calls of "I have this tree in my front yard, I'm not sure what it is, but its real big and how much are you going to pay me for it when you take it down?"

We have tree "professionals" who call me ups and say they just took down a tree and not know what it is either, but want me to pay for it.  They think every hickory is a walnut, and every cherry is a walnut, and every ash tree a walnut, etc.  I can't understand how they cant actually identify what kind of tree it is.  Its like me going fishing and bragging on the fish I caught in Guntersville Lake and saying, "I think they were tuna."

So not only do I usually only buy logs from professionals, I try to avoid buying from first time newbies.  Nothing against newbies, but I'm not in business of educating them with my money and time, only to have them complain I'm not paying them enough.  I had one guy bring me some pencil walnut logs in his pickup truck bed, and complain when I didn't pay for them because they were too short and too small.  He was so disappointed, saying he figured they would be worth enough to pay off the bank note for that truck, and since I had so many logs why wouldn't I just "be a nice guy and buy his?"  Really?  That one still PO's me.  I told him "I AM a nice guy, but I'm not STUPID.  Do I look like Forrest Gump?"

So, now I tell log selling newbies, and log selling tree guys to gather up a couple loads of logs and take then to any of the big mega mills in this area, and come back when they have some experience and knowledge and then I may deal with them.

I contrast, when buying from log professionals, the conversation goes more like this: "Hey, I need some butt cut white oak logs, stave grade for quarter sawing, 28 inch and better."  They say "OK, I'll stack some up and I'll see you in a week or so."  Much easier.  :D :D  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

K-Guy

Quote from: YellowHammer on December 03, 2019, 08:26:14 AMDo I look like Forrest Gump?"


You are taking a big risk asking that question on here!! ;D
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

Southside

Quote from: YellowHammer on December 03, 2019, 08:26:14 AMDo I look like Forrest Gump?


Now that you mention it....:D

I had a customer ask me to come to her property and look at her timber she wanted to sell.  We walk around for maybe 1/2 an hour and are standing in a pine thicket, maybe 18" DBH, nothing else the eye can see.  While leaning against one of the trees she asked stated out loud "Now these are all oaks right?"  

Ummm, errr, how do I begin.....::)
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

YellowHammer

I don't look like Tom Hanks.  Tom Cruise maybe.  Or Mel Gibson... :D :D :D
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

stavebuyer

I have always been on the wholesale/commodity side of the business. Pricing is therefore pretty well defined on both the purchase price of logs/timber and sales price of lumber. Years ago I reduced my website to a single photo with no contact information and my standard response to telephone inquiries was basically "no". Dealing with the general public on log transactions is a no win situation. As previously mentioned all such logs and transactions tend to meet one or more  of these criteria;

1. of exceptionally poor quality and form. Cut to the lengths handiest to the seller with no regard to merchantability.
2. Universally thought to be of much higher grade and value than ever existed in any market at any time.
3. Poorly handled and mis-manufactured so as to remove any and all potential value that might have existed prior to butcher.
4. Loaded directly on the floor of a trailer with fenders.
5. Said trailer generally arrives at the busiest time of day and parks directly behind a loader involved in unloading a commercial vehicle.
6. John Q Public then expects all operations to cease so that said high value logs on trailer blocking operations can be appraised.
7. After being schooled by John Q that the logs in question were in fact worth more as firewood, he needed immediate payment. The check of course needed to be in some relatives name as not to have a negative impact on his taxes, social security, unemployment, child support,food stamps etc.
8. And of course the best of all scenarios is a follow up visit by the legitimate owner of said logs who never received payment followed by the deputy Sheriff with an invitation for you and your records to appear in court.

Most likely there are less than a dozen loggers within practical delivery distance of any sawmill. Develop a relationship with a handful. Pay a little more than a commodity price to a one of them. It will be a bargain.

 

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