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LT15 Single Phase Electric Motor

Started by wesdor, December 26, 2012, 10:30:54 AM

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wesdor

I've been on the phone with Woodmizer and they don't seem to know the answer to my question.  (Perhaps that is because I am not smart enough to ask what I need).

Looking at purchasing the LT15 with 10 HP single phase electric motor.  My electrician says they need to know gauge of wire 10 - 8 - 6 before they can wire my building.

Woodmizer tells me it is a regular hookup like a welder - 3 wires.

I am thinking that I want a plug on the end of the cord so I can move the mill around.  Any of you know details about the motor I am considering? 

Thanks in advance

Kingcha

You need to find out how many amps it draws.   I am guessing 45 to 50 amps.  Your electrician can then wire accordingly. I think that would be 6 gauge.  I am guessing you could then have an heavy duty cord made th
a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

Kingcha

woodmizer should be able to give you the amps on the motor.  Plus how the motor comes, with a cord and length or not.
a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

wesdor

Archie told me 44 Amps was maximum draw. 

It sounds like 6 Gauge wire is what I need.  Thanks for the reply.

wesdor

I don't think they sell too many of the electrical motors.  They didn't seem to know details, nor where to find them online.

I'm putting this in a metal building and want it to be stationary.  Thus the electric motor to get away from diesel or gas fumes.

In talking with the electrician I'm finding this is more complex than I thought.

walterkilo

Hi,

Nominaly, 1 HP = 746 watts  so 10 HP = 7460 watts.  7460 watts / 240V = 31.08 amps. 
You would at least need a 40 amp 240V breaker and 8 awg wires.

I would go with underground PVC pipes filled with 8 awg or 6awg if lenghty. A good interupter
and a 240V 8 awg twistlock extension as short as possible to reach your saw.

Going electric is not meant to be so easily moveable.
That said I don't own a saw yet...

Dominik
Dominik aka Walterkilo
Boucherville/Stanstead, Quebec.

Dan_Shade

A 10 HP motor on Amazon states 43A at 230V single phase.

  http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004HL3V90/ref=aw_d_detail?pd=1

That's going to take some big wire....
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

wesdor

Walterkilo:  agree that electric is not designed to move easily. In my situation I hope to store the sawmill in one place and rotate it 90 degrees so I can use my tractor with pallet forks to get logs to it.

Dan - thanks for the details.  I hadn't thought of the obvious.  Would it be correct to assume that a 10 hp electric is the same, no matter what manufacturer?

Nvfd3052

#8 twisted copper is rated to 45 amps, and solid is 60 amps. #6 twisted copper is rated to 55 amps, solid is 80 amps. For aluminum twisted #6 is 40 amps and #4 is 55 amps. Solid is #8 45 amps and #6 60 amps. Best to go a little bigger than to go too small.
Woodmizer LT35HDD18 diesel
Stihl ms290
Deere 260 skid loader
01 Chevy 2500hd duramax
And a wife that loves me!

walterkilo

Off course the motor's blocked rotor amperage on the name plate and the local voltage available
are the best guides...

Just for the fun of it, I went and looked at Illinois kw/h cost...
Whew !  Not on the cheap side...

Considering the electricity cost, the electrician's bill, the "cheap" local gas cost  and the fact that
your mill will not be easily moveable...

I would invest in a flexible outside venting exhaust and a couple good pair of earmuffs...

As the Canadian Electrical Code is apparently different from Illinois, the more I write, the more I consider
I should have kept my thoughts for my self...  :)

Dominik
Dominik aka Walterkilo
Boucherville/Stanstead, Quebec.

Nvfd3052

Ask to see the nameplate on the motor to get the exact specs, but rule of thumb for full potential load current is at 115 vac single phase draw could be up to 14 amps/hp at rated output.
Edit- nevermind, it would be 220 so disregard this. Not sure how to just delete it...
Woodmizer LT35HDD18 diesel
Stihl ms290
Deere 260 skid loader
01 Chevy 2500hd duramax
And a wife that loves me!

buzzegray

Whatever size you wire the saw for, I suggest you wire the building with larger wire for any other equipment you might get or use. I think you asked about wire for the building.

captain_crunch

Eventho Alum is cheaper I would avoid it like the plauge
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Larry

Quote from: wesdor on December 26, 2012, 10:30:54 AM
My electrician says they need to know gauge of wire 10 - 8 - 6 before they can wire my building.

Get the amp requirement from WM and give this to your electrician.  Let him figure out the wire gauge along with breaker size.  Will not be any problem for a real electrician.  If he still wants the wire gauge fire him.

For the same amp load, wire gauge can vary dependent on insulation, method of construction, and distance.  There are also special rules to properly size breakers for motor loads.  Entirely different than the rules for normal household loads.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

jcbrotz

Quote from: wesdor on December 26, 2012, 10:50:43 AM
I don't think they sell too many of the electrical motors.  They didn't seem to know details, nor where to find them online.

I'm putting this in a metal building and want it to be stationary.  Thus the electric motor to get away from diesel or gas fumes.

In talking with the electrician I'm finding this is more complex than I thought.

Its been a while since I (2 years almost) since I played an electrician at old proctor but there is a thing called the NEC ask your electrician if he has a copy. If not tell him to get one and he will not have to ask these questions. It spells everthing out for you, you just have to know how to read it. :D If he has know idea what the NEC is do as the above post and fire him.
2004 woodmizer lt40hd 33hp kubota, Cat 262B skidsteer and way to many tractors to list. www.Brotzmanswoodworks.com and www.Brotzmanscenturyfarm.com

barbender

I'm with Larry, if your electrician can't figure this out you need a different electrician. It shouldn't be that complex. All the formulas and standards for figuring wire size and such is why you are paying someone who is supposed to know all of that ::)
Too many irons in the fire

scrout

Go as big a copper gauge as you can afford to minimize voltage sag if you are going very far at all with your wire.
The input rush/starting current is huge for these larger motors, I don't recall if Woodmizer has any kind of a soft start feature on these, or if they start at zero load then you engage the wheels?

waho

If you look on the Wood-Mizer home page at the top under international dealers, you can scroll down and find the UK home page. There you will find a description of the LT 10, it apparently starts under no load.I couldn't find that under the LT 15 description. Sure wish we could get good machines like that here, instead of the (expletive deleted) stuff we have to buy here.

waho

Should have added that the only way you can buy an LT 10 is with an electric motor. I know this was not what this thread is about.

wesdor

Electrician is not the problem.  He just wants the specs to know how to do it correctly.

I haven't been able to get anyone at WM thy can provide details of the motor. 

Al_Smith

Quote from: Nvfd3052 on December 26, 2012, 11:06:55 AM
#8 twisted copper is rated to 45 amps, and solid is 60 amps. #6 twisted copper is rated to 55 amps, solid is 80 amps. For aluminum twisted #6 is 40 amps and #4 is 55 amps. Solid is #8 45 amps and #6 60 amps. Best to go a little bigger than to go too small.
Where might I ask did that information come  from ? Unless they have rewritten the national electrical code it does not differenciate between solid or stranded wires regarding ampacity .In addition to that just where does one find numbers  8,6 and 4 in solid wire ?

Now the 10 HP single phase .The only reference I had near me was WW Grainger and using a service factor 1 10 HP motor it gives the running amps at 38 on a 240 volt single phase . Number 8 copper would handle  if it were THHN insulation .THW it would need to be number 6 .

It used to be the rule of thumb that # 12 was 20 amps,10 thirty ,8 40 and 6 60 .They've changed the code over the years and now allow higher ampacities .Thus if I read the charts correctly # 8 copper THHN no more than three wires per conduit is now 55 amps .

Nvfd3052

Quote from: Al_Smith on December 26, 2012, 07:21:28 PM
Quote from: Nvfd3052 on December 26, 2012, 11:06:55 AM
#8 twisted copper is rated to 45 amps, and solid is 60 amps. #6 twisted copper is rated to 55 amps, solid is 80 amps. For aluminum twisted #6 is 40 amps and #4 is 55 amps. Solid is #8 45 amps and #6 60 amps. Best to go a little bigger than to go too small.
Where might I ask did that information come  from ? Unless they have rewritten the national electrical code it does not differenciate between solid or stranded wires regarding ampacity .In addition to that just where does one find numbers  8,6 and 4 in solid wire ?

Now the 10 HP single phase .The only reference I had near me was WW Grainger and using a service factor 1 10 HP motor it gives the running amps at 38 on a 240 volt single phase . Number 8 copper would handle  if it were THHN insulation .THW it would need to be number 6 .

It used to be the rule of thumb that # 12 was 20 amps,10 thirty ,8 40 and 6 60 .They've changed the code over the years and now allow higher ampacities .Thus if I read the charts correctly # 8 copper THHN no more than three wires per conduit is now 55 amps .

I am a locomotive electrition and I got a little electrical reference bookfrom them. I figured it would be close to the same, but then again whenever I go figuring I usually get in trouble lol. I have quite a selection of solid wire here, I don't know if it is railroad specific or not.
Woodmizer LT35HDD18 diesel
Stihl ms290
Deere 260 skid loader
01 Chevy 2500hd duramax
And a wife that loves me!

wesdor

I just sent a PM to Marty Parsons and Sparks.  Bet they will be able to get me the details I need. 

For obvious reasons, the electrician wants to be sure he does what is needed.  Thus the required information. 

Once I get the correct information, I'll post it here in case someone in the future has the same problem.

On the good side, my wife just gave permission to move forward with this purchase and I don't want to waste any time and risk her changing her mind.  (some of you may know exactly what I mean).

davey duck

Hi ,I have a 10 HP single phase motor on my sawmill.I have a AMP meter on the control box.Just running the motor and blade with no load it runs at 22 amps when sawing ,it runs at 40-60 amps and when it hits a large knot it can peg the needle at 80 amps the motor is rated at 53 amps and is 3450 rpm.I use all 50 amp plugs and 6 Ga   .flexible cable (silo unloader cable) the plugs are all 50 amp welder plugs from Tractor Supply.
David G.Fleming

Al_Smith

They make solid conductor but it's more or less a specialty thing .For example unless it's changed one section of the national electrical code dealt specifically with grounding for in ground swimming pools .The type that might be on college  campuses .It stated every fourth reinforcing rod in the concrete pour be bonded using a welded stainless steel bolt with a number 8 solid insulated wire . I've seen it in sizes up to 4/0 which BTW is 3/8" in solid which has the same circular mill area as 4/0 stranded .

That said solid insulated wire larger than # 10 romax is a rarity and seldom if ever is used except for certain grounding situations .

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