Line skidder for small private woodlot

[jczepil]

Gents,

I'm in the process of looking for a skidder and would like some of your opinions as I've been getting a mixed bag of recommendations. Here is the (3) skidders that I am currently considering. I would appreciate some input on which one you think is best from a reliability, repair/maintenance, part souring, and fuel consumption standpoint. Please elaborate on the reasons why as much as you can.

-1987 John Deere 640D
-1985 Clark Ranger 666
-1990 Timberjack 380

Any help is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Jeff

[nativewolf]

Why a skidder?  What size is the lot?  Lots of folks prefer to use armored large utility tractors with winches due to increased maneuverability and just general multi-tasking capability of a tractor vs a skidder.  Skidder is pretty one dimensional beast, fun maybe but 1 dimension, moving logs.  Can't pick them up and load on a mill, can't hook up a snow plow, can't til a garden, etc.  Also, not cheap to run. 

Do you plan to mill lumber from the logs?  Where are you?  What's the topography like?  What species. 

The older TJ are beloved by many posters as I am sure you'll find out.  Also, a similar posting was made just a few weeks ago, do a search and find it.  Lots of tractor logging posts, look for those they are a wealth of info.

[47sawdust]

Unless you have deep pockets and extreme mechanical skills,skidders would scare me.As stated above a large 4wd tractor with loader and winch are a reasonable approach.A lot depends on your terrain as well.
Have a good time shopping.

[mf40diesel]

Firstly, welcome to the forum... wonderful group of guys and gals on here with a tremendous amount of knowledge.

I have an old TJ, so am naturally pretty partial to the TJ. 

My buddy at home who logs full time has a 380C and his old man has a Clark.  I think both are great machines.  I think the 380 might be a tad quicker and easier on fuel than the Clark, but both are solid machines. He has had the 380 for several years, and that machine has been a true work horse for him.  The Clark they have not had as long, so I can't weigh in on that.  I tend to believe they both will have Clark trannys, and both probably have really good rear ends in them.

Of course the comment I always hear about JD's is that they are awesome until you have a breakdown, and are therefore forced to buy parts at the dealer which makes them substantially more expensive.

Assuming they are all in roughly the same shape, with regards to hours, condition and price, probably all of them will serve you well.

[mf40diesel]

I was in the same boat you are, with regards to tractor logging vs skidder.  In the end obviously I went with the skidder, besides my own wood lot I am cutting small lots for a few customers, pretty much small view lot kind of work. 

I had the same questions and same thoughts... the tractor is much more versatile a machine to have.  With that said, the skidder I ended up getting is a late 60's 225.  I paid 11,000 dollars for it, and it is in pretty solid shape(knock on wood).  I was aiming for a Tajfun winch, personally I think they are the cadillac of winches (IMHO), the appropriate winch for my tractor was going to be about $10,000.  For me at least, I decided for the relatively small price difference I could have a purpose built machine that will likely survive the forestry service better and protect me better too.

Again, only my opinion.

Depending on the size of your woodlot,  a TJ225/230, TF C4, Clark 664 or a Deere 440 should also be considered.  For a small lot, the models you listed are pretty big, then again "small wood lot" is relative.

[jczepil]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the information so far.

I definitely want to go with a skidder since the woodot area is fairly large (i.e. +500 acres) and I also want to make sure I'm protected in the cab while out in the bush. The timber type is a cedar/hemlock mix, and the big hemlock can get very heavy. The clark 666 ranger has a blown motor, but I was wondering if a guy could convert over to a cummins with not much problem. The TJ 380 already has a cummins, so that makes it fairly attractive. I've heard good things about the 640D, but everyone is warning me on parts issues.

Terrain is good with an average 15%-20% grade.

What are the things I should be checking when looking at the TJ 380. Any obvious problems they had that I should be looking for?

Thanks again for the replies.

[mf40diesel]

I had a feeling that "small private woodlot" would factor.  That's a size-able chunk of land. For one man and a cable skidder.

My buddy absolutely loves his 380c.

[xalexjx]

Is the 380 a c or b? what winch? If lean towards the timberjack (I run a 450c) parts are easy to find and easier on the wallet. John deere are good but parts are more expensive. Don't know much about clarks.

[Riwaka]

Any Tigercat dealers in your area? Tigercat 620c with grapple and winch.

[Puffergas]

Used a 75HP farm tractor for years in the woods. Now I have a TJ 225 and wished I never bothered with the tractor in the woods. TJ is also easier to work on than the tractor was. But the cable takes more grunt to pull out.

For versatility I added the skid steer.

[Spartan]

Ilike the 380 platform, that will be my next skidder if I get a different one.  With almost a section to log I would go with a skidder too.
You can turn around and sell it for near what you paid for it when you are done.

Make sure the tires are decent and it has at least one pair of chains that are not wore out.  Most guys get rid of their older iron when it needs tires because the tires are more to purchase than the machine is worth.

Check for slop in the center pins, a little is ok if you don't go too long and wallow out the primary metal.
get everything up to full operating temp when you test it out.  run it hard.  full turns up hill forward and backward will let you know what the planetaries are like.  check the oil levels at full temp and see if ok. 
On TJ check the main dozer pin boss on the carrier frame for cracks.
Make sure that winch is in good shape and will work a load.  get on a hill and hook it to a tree and reel yourself in uphill in nuetral.  Then set the brake and try to drive forward.  winch, transmission, and tires are you most costly pieces imo.

Don't buy without a good test drive.  Never sight unseen unless you have deep pockets.

Good luck

[47sawdust]

Spartan,
Everyone who buys a skidder should heed your advice.Good post.

[danbuendgen]

Make sure the tires are decent and it has at least one pair of chains that are not wore out.  Most guys get rid of their older iron when it needs tires because the tires are more to purchase than the machine is worth.

Are you sure about that?? I see a ton of cable skidders for 15k-25k. A set of four 23.1x26 or 18.4x34 can be bought new for under 8k. I just priced some out the other day....

Also, if your just hobby logging, bald tires and crap chains will be ok for occasional use if the snow is not too deep. Plenty of full time loggers around here run bald tires and they seem to get by just fine.

Back on topic, I like the 240 platform. Honestly, I can't tolerate operating any other type of cable machine at this point. Easy in and out even with a large saw. Good power, and cheap to run on a daily basis.

I'll sell you my 240. It's in the "for sale" section on the forum if you are interested. Older machine, needs a good paint job, and the center pins are getting some play.

[Spartan]

Yeah, I hear what you are saying, cable skidders are 10-12k around here for the older ones.  That run :D
Maybe a hobby logger can get by fine.
Mine are almost bald and it sucks.  way less traction.  Especially in ring chains.
Sticks start going through them also.  (yes even in 14 plys)
I've done the whole repair your chains daily as well, had more clevises and welds in them than normal links (at least it felt like it)
That will drive a guy crazy.
Then theres the whole spin you tires inside the chains.
Around here, by the time you get the tires, have them mounted, fluid put in them bla bla bla, your looking close to the price of another wore out skidder, cuz thats all thats for sale if you want a cable machine.  cheap chains are 1500 a pair
so you can hit 12K -14k real easy if the whole lot is bad.
But...  Like you said, may be different in your area.

[danbuendgen]

Oh, I know what you mean. When I put 2 new tires on my 240 it was like a totally different machine. And I thought it got good traction before the new tires.... Now is a good time to buy new tires. Low fuel prices have lowered tire prices too.

[Neilo]

If you are looking at the models originally listed, I would look for a grapple.

[ehp]

was wondering what motor the clark had cause 1985 was the year some got the cummins  in them, if the clark had the cummins and was not beat up bad I would buy it , best skidder ever made period , but sense its got a Detroit my first  choice would be the 380 , good machine and good tranny in it , stable and pretty bullet proof

[Spartan]

If you are looking at the models originally listed, I would look for a grapple.

Is he hand cutting?
Line might be faster.

one thing to think about too, do any of them have a short or long frame.  Long frame might be more comfortable on longer skids.  Gives you a little more weight too.
I wish I had a long frame.

[AlexHart]

Well if this was my choice to make and assuming all three candidates were of somewhat comparable shape and price I would go with the D model 640 and it wouldn't be a hard decision at all.   

I'm not disputing that its possible you could run into a part or two you might need that will be expensive but pretty much any little problem can be solved somehow.   You'll be OK for 500 acres unless something outrageous happens and all these machines stink when something majorly bad happens anyway. 

In general I wouldn't let things like fuel use and part costs scare you.   Pick out the machine that best combines what you like best and your instincts are telling you is in the best condition.  That would be my advice.   Chances are those other concerns will end up being not only unpredictable but small potatoes in the broad view.   

[AlexHart]

Here are some quick real life examples off the top of my head with D model John Deere's we've run into.

1) A few years ago the blade control cable for my machine failed.   Dutifully called the Deere dealer and they had one.  Thank goodness.   Is it even worth asking how much it costs?  Might as well... let me check for you sir....   459 dollars or something.   Mmmhmm  yep.   That's what it costs.    After my jaw was picked off the floor we ended up getting a control cable from truckparts for like 28 bucks.   Same difference.   So while the outrageous part cost in that case was true per se... did it really bother anything? 

2)  Awhile back my friend had the rear end come lose out of his 548 D and basically when it rolled back the driveshaft yolk rolled upwards and smashed the fuel tank from the bottom.    After we got that mess hauled back to the shop and figured out we learned that John Deere fuel tanks cost about as much as Air Force One but that isn't really relevant since you can't buy one anyway.    Nobody had one from British Columbia to the SC boneyards.   So we ended up carefully cutting the top of the tank off, pressing the damage back more or less straight and then welding on a new top.   Its worked perfectly for years now and only cost some time and effort basically.

3) Another quick one that just happened.  He needed bearings for the grapple rotation and John Deere wanted a lot of money.    It took a few days but after cross referencing them through Napa and some other spots he got what he needed for a fraction of what Deere was trying to charge.   And I mean a fraction.   It was like 900 down to 150 bucks or something.   
   

[lynde37avery]

Timberjack can't go wrong.
I run a few Deere they go fast. not as good on steep hills.

[danbuendgen]

Timberjack can't go wrong.
I run a few Deere they go fast. not as good on steep hills.

Also, the older Deere's are harder to get in and out of. And get about 1/2 the traction a TJ can get.

My first skidder was a 540B with good tires and chains. Sold it, and got a 240 and the tires and chains were shot, and it could go places the 540B could NEVER go. PERIOD.

At this point, I refuse to operate anything other the a TJ.

[ehp]

the 380 and clark are a lot alike , I like that style of tranny better than the JD. I agree that 640D we had I could not even back up the steep side hill with out it wanting to roll, the TJ 450 would drive up the hill and turn around with no trouble on same trail

[jczepil]

Hey Guys,

Well I ended up purchasing the 1990 TimberJack 380B with the cummins and clark winch and I can't wait to get it all cleaned up and get some fresh oils in it. I have a few basic questions about the machine as I have yet to dive into it with any detail. I just got it home last night!

Here are a few questions:
- The fellow I bought it from said he just changed the transmission oil and fiber gear. Does the winch, steering and blade hydraulics run off the transmission fluid as well?
- What type of oil does the transmission take?
- I checked the front and rear differentials (Eaton) and the rear has a little bit of water in it so I'm going to get fresh fluids in both. What type of oil do the rear-ends take and how much?
- The emergency brake on the left hand side (if sitting in the machine) has not been used for a long time. Would it be wise to try using it or is there a potential for it to stick on?
- The brake lock lever on the right needs a new cable as it's frayed and not working. Does a guy use this feature much when winching or does simple holding the brake pedal down when winching seem to hold fine?
- The previous owner said to use a little puff of starting fluid when it's cold out, but when it's warm none is required. Is it normal to need a little shot of starting fluid with 5.9 cummins when it's cold?

Anything else I should be looking at other than the obvious routine greasing?

Thanks for all the feedback leading up to the purchase, it is very appreciated.

Jeff

[Spartan]

Go online to John Deere support and get yourself a manual A service, operators, and parts manual.  You'll need the serial number, usually located behind your left foot on a tag.  That will answer a lot of your questions.
Might need a new e brake cable, they can rust inside.  Useful for when you get out to hook the drag.  On steeper stuff, make sure you put that dozer down too before you get out.
I wouldn't worry about the starting fluid thing.