Skid Steer for landings - stacking/sorting - wheeled or tracks?

catfishhunter · December 21, 2020, 07:58:09 PM

Hi All - I currently use a wheeled skid steer for the landing to move, sort and stack the wood. I might buy a newer skid steer, has anyone used a rubber tracked skid steer? How are they on the landing versus a wheeled skid steer?

Walnut Beast · December 21, 2020, 09:04:04 PM

Have you tried out a tracked unit before

barbender · December 21, 2020, 10:06:33 PM

In a nutshell, it should work as well, or better. But it's going to be a lot more expensive to run.

Mike W · December 21, 2020, 11:23:05 PM

Depends, where you are located and type of landing (base material) you are working off of mostly, have steel tracks on the wheeled skid steer, great in the woods, mixed weather, including snow just plows through like a tank, like I mentioned, really like the set up for what we do on our property, and clearing building sites as needed here and there. enjoy the added ballast they add (they are heavy), on someone's lawn, not so much.. :

. A couple rubber tracked units around the area, but useless in the snow or mud, and even when the floor is full of wet leaves, its a skating rink for those, without adding studs (a real pain) they break off constantly in anything but snow it seems, but hey, way kinder on the neighbors groomed lawn I suppose. I wouldn't change the setup a bit, a small tank for tight spaces as mostly needed and can remove the tracks (never) but could if needed.

Walnut Beast · December 21, 2020, 11:39:15 PM

Rubber tracks useless in mud or snow 😂. I don't think so. Get on ASV site or You tube

BargeMonkey · December 22, 2020, 12:08:56 AM

If your not in larger rocks or stumps a rubber track machine with generally walk all over a rubber tired machine. I have both, they both have good and bad. If I had to have 1 machine to use on the landing like your looking to do it would probably be a track machine. Better in the mud, pick more.

mike_belben · December 22, 2020, 08:20:59 AM

If someone else owns the machine, CTL.

If its mine to pay for, wheeled with OTTs. New tires is the easiest undercarriage maintenance program there is.

catfishhunter · December 22, 2020, 08:34:15 AM

All great advice - I also use it around the farm for moving bales, moving some snow. Another thing I could use it for is my tree removal/trimming jobs and I know that the CTL is better on lawns. I would use it on the landing mostly and the landing stays pretty clean.

BargeMonkey · December 22, 2020, 10:28:05 PM

I prefer a rubber tire machine but the tracks have advantages. I bought a set of the over the tire chain / pad style tracks 15? Yrs ago and they weren't that great, stretch, slide off, only way I would buy them again is like the McLaren ones. You would be surprised what a set of good tire chains on the front will do.
Ive got 2100🤷‍♂️ hours on that track machine, 3rd set of tracks, couple rollers and 1 idler. If that machine smells a stump its going to throw a track, last time my father got one good with a worn track and I limped it out on a couple cords left. All depends again what your doing. The track machines ride hard, unless its real bad ground i will take that LS170 over that track machine any day.

Walnut Beast · December 22, 2020, 11:18:01 PM

These machines ride pretty good with full suspension. And for getting around in mud and snow fantastic. This was a Terex 100 and when I had this one there was a snow storm one year and it had snowed very deep with drifts that were 8ft + on the roads and snow plows couldn't get through on the road for a few days with the 20" wide tracks and 15" ground clearance I could go over those big drifts and sink down minimally. I took several buckets of corn 🌽 from the farm house down the road and over those monster drifts and through the fields. I remember when I was dumping the corn turkeys 🦃 came in right away and started eating. They really needed the corn. You talk about a extra smooth ride in high range 12.5 mph going over the drifts 😂

barbender · December 22, 2020, 11:57:29 PM

The ASV ride and traction is incomparable. Just have your wallet ready when it's time for undercarriage repairs. Rigid undercarriage machines ride HORRIBLE, and more so when the tracks get worn.

catfishhunter · December 23, 2020, 06:15:04 AM

I am running an old 7753, I chain up all four tires and it gets around great. But, it can't really lift enough. I ran a new JCB on a lot clearing job that was rubber tracked (CTL). It had an 80hp diesel and for power it was a beast. We skidded all the trees up out of a hillside onto a field with ease. BUT - I was just cleaning up the landing on flat grassy field and the track came off. The thing had like 50 hours on it. And now I'm thinking if that's how easy tracks come off in just flat dirt could it work for what I do. I totally realize this can't be the case because so many people run them, but you know how it is when that's your first experience with something.

If I bought a bobcat I was thinking an S590/595. Any other recommendations for other brands? Cat, JD, Gehl, ASV, Kubota?

Also - I use pallet forks. It's fine for the big stuff but is there something better for all those bolts and pulp sticks?

stavebuyer · December 23, 2020, 06:54:19 AM

Skid steers are handy machines but for handling logs I would choose a knuckle boom or wheel loader. The gain in productivity will outweigh their cost.

jimbarry · December 23, 2020, 07:12:09 AM

MTL's (multi terrain loader's) like our 2007 CAT 257B2 (ASV undercarriage) works good in snow. You just have to be mindful of the snow that can pack in and build up around the drive sprocket. If it packs in and you are not paying attention, the track nubs won't connect with the sprocket correctly and it can result in the track slipping off. Just like any machine you drive in snow, you have to be aware of traveling conditions.

If the snow is heavy and sticky, likely the tracks will spin trying to push it uphill. No problem. Just drive over it, get to the top, spin around, drop the blade or bucket, and push downwards.

It's great around the yard, spins on a dime with minimal ground tear up.

And yes, the undercarriage can be expensive to replace.

This past month I had to replace both frames, rear idler hubs, front idler hubs and wheels, along with the tracks. Came to just under CAD$10K. Which is about USD$7500.

Sounds like a lot but I look at it this way. I bought this used in 2015 when it had 4200hrs on it. It now has 4700 hours on it. 500 hrs seat time I have. It sips fuels so I am not concerned about that. Can move around 8 hrs in the yard with logs and firewood and only burn CAD$15 in fuel. I've had to replace one joystick and this recent track replacement. All total about CAD$12K.

500 hrs and CAD$12K is about $24 per hour. Given the fact that most of the abuse this machine received was prior to me owning it, I think the hourly rate to operate this machine is minimal. And, the machine is a workhorse.

mike_belben · December 23, 2020, 08:33:10 AM

What causes the track frame to wear out?

I have to say that undercarriage replacement is why i will force myself to stay with tires. $100 each for imports, $600 per corner for brand flatproofs on new wheels.

Bruno of NH · December 23, 2020, 09:08:11 AM

It's like my friend with a big excavation company told me.
He only has a dozer because it's needed once and awhile.
They cost money every foot they move.
It will be rubber for me.
Unless I win the lottery.

mike_belben · December 23, 2020, 09:58:37 AM

I kinda have wanted to comment on that. Guy ive known all his life said to me the other day they dug out the TD8 dresser 6 way machine and used it for first time in a decade. That his new big track bobcat will almost push as hard as the dozer. So the new track CTLs are doing now what a small dozer or crawler loader did, but twice as fast.

So theyre getting thrown at a lot of jobs that used to be reserved for 3x the machine, just taking 1/3 the bite and getting 3x the hours put on. Meanwhile this has made the old iron clad, stupid heavy, rough riding and "slow" equipment cheaper because everyone wants nice new, warm and dry inside etc. This is reflected pretty well in the hour meters on plant owned skid steers on the auction sites. 2015s that look good with 7000 hours. Thats a LOT of use. Employees are fighting to use the skid steer instead of something else.

A dozer undercarriage isnt much more than an ASV/cat/terex bottom but itll survive in worse environments, so will a 14ply tire. What we dont see is dollar per ton pushed or ton per gallon or ton per track.

A skid steer is probably the best swiss army knife where you can only have one machine and every day is a different job. But if all youre doing is one job same every day, they may not be the most suitable. If youre just loading log trucks for example, the best machine is the one that safely loads the most trucks per shift and the most trucks per gallon with the least consumption of the machine's wear items. Its a recipe everyone has to cook up on their own. If i was clearing land and pushing trees over and loading dump trucks with debris, that big slow old crawler loader is still gonna be a wiser choice than that 299 rubber track forestry package machine i really really want to have.

barbender · December 23, 2020, 01:08:12 PM

Mike, one problem I see is some of these new CTL's will push like a small dozer, but when something that weighs 10k has the same HP as a dozer that weighs 25k, which is going to last longer? Most CTL's are overpowered if they have the wrong operator in them, IMO.

mike_belben · December 23, 2020, 01:35:11 PM

True, and instead of putting all that power through a shaft in a cast iron gearbox under 3 layers of steel, theyre putting it in a hose or .090" wall pipe not so far from your body.

I absolutely love the skid steer like i absolutely love the ton truck. But there is a relationship there. In the last decade, normal joe has gotten a taste of being a "dirt contractor" thanks to the skid steer just like the hotshot driver got a taste at the transportation business thanks to the turbodiesel and 40ft gooseneck. Both markets are oversaturated and biting into the big dog market. both of them feed on undercutting to get the scraps left between the big boys that can be done with the little machine. When times are good there is plenty of gravy for everyone to eat but as always markets contract, gravy tightens up and overflow jobs dry up. Cant haul 80k oh well. Dont have a asphalt roller and sheepfoot compactor oh well. The bobcat will be worn out before the 950F, the texas pride will be worn out before the reitenouer, the dodge dually plow and sander truck will be ready to fold before the T800 or S2500 tandem wing plow. That wizzbang 3/4 ton 80mph left lane dodge isnt gonna survive what that old junk R model or L9000 did. Youve to match the work to the tool for long service life.

I love all things industry and love to see people making honest money doing real work, especially with iron. This ramble is just some food for thought. Off to spend $60 on a instock generic cylinder repack for my 35 year old $4000 detroit powered junky forktruck that will pick up an overloaded dually and put it on the roof for about 15 cents of red #2. Clearly the right tool for that particular job whenever it comes up :D

Bruno of NH · December 23, 2020, 01:57:19 PM

Case makes a new steel tracked 1/2 skid steer with a special frame mount dozer blade.
I can't remember for certain it might weigh in around 12,000 lbs
It also will take a ripper bar on the rear.

Walnut Beast · December 23, 2020, 02:49:59 PM

Quote from: barbender on December 22, 2020, 11:57:29 PM
The ASV ride and traction is incomparable. Just have your wallet ready when it's time for undercarriage repairs. Rigid undercarriage machines ride HORRIBLE, and more so when the tracks get worn.

Barbender is exactly right on everything. When something works extremely good it's going to cost a little more to fix stuff. That's why you see guys replacing only the parts that they absolutely have to 😂

Bruno of NH · December 23, 2020, 03:00:27 PM

I don't know if you guys have heard or seen.
I have from a Kioti dealer I follow on FB
Kioti has a skid steer coming out wheeled and tracked.
It was a bigger machine.

mike_belben · December 23, 2020, 04:00:34 PM

Quote from: Bruno of NH on December 23, 2020, 01:57:19 PM
Case makes a new steel tracked 1/2 skid steer with a special frame mount dozer blade.
I can't remember for certain it might weigh in around 12,000 lbs
It also will take a ripper bar on the rear.

Yeah thats project minotaur (sp?) iirc. I think its still a concept.

Bruno of NH · December 23, 2020, 04:42:50 PM

No Mike
They are now in production and for sale at dealers

jimbarry · December 23, 2020, 05:23:05 PM

Quote from: mike_belben on December 23, 2020, 08:33:10 AM
What causes the track frame to wear out?

I have to say that undercarriage replacement is why i will force myself to stay with tires. $100 each for imports, $600 per corner for brand flatproofs on new wheels.

Holes for the axles were worn, needed to be drilled and sleeved. Were already sleeved at some point in the past. Cost to do that now is near the cost of brand new, so I went with brand new. Frames were $923 per side. Front hub and wheel group were $591 per, need 4. Rear axle hubs are $403 per, need 4 of those too. re-used the rear steel wheels. Caps to cover the axle nut are almost $35 each, needed 6. Good thing, there's 24 on the machine.