Cancar tree farmer c4b winch identity?

[monasheemonster]

Anyone familiar with cancar tree farmers able to verify the model winch and model skidder or year? I'm considering taking a look at this machine. Seller says placard said c4bd... the gearmatic winch is mounted behind the cab. He thought it was hydraulic.. and sent pictures of a sprocket coming off the tcase (I presume) and a sprocket coming off the winch. Is this normal for these machines? Also the drive chain was missing. It's a ford diesel. Runs good. I'm worried about dealing with an obsolete winch. Any advice?

The seller bought it at a ranch estate sale and doesn't know much about them. 

I like the sound of the ford diesel. He sent me a video driving it in his yard. 

[thecfarm]

I sure don't know.
But the chain was not removed because it was working good.

[monasheemonster]

I sure don't know.
But the chain was not removed because it was working good.

I would concur. Reason for my hesitation. Wood be great to hear from some gearmatic pros on this machine. Price is pretty decent as it stands. It's about 5 hours away though. 

[230Dforme]

Good evening 

These skiddders, all makes, not just this one are old and well used
There is a YouTube guy with a straight forward video, that if it's for sale there is something wrong with it, Canada I think
Pictures worth a thousand words
You can tell if equipment is shot and hasn't moved in 2 years or more
New tires worth a $ 2000 + ? to replace for starters 
I bought a Timberjack 230D by word of mouth about 5 years ago for 16,500 on a farm for 40 years w new tires
and no issues 
Sold it last year for 24,500
Look for something reasonably good, and taken care of, they are still out there 
My 2 cents 😎

[monasheemonster]

Good evening

These skiddders, all makes, not just this one are old and well used
There is a YouTube guy with a straight forward video, that if it's for sale there is something wrong with it, Canada I think
Pictures worth a thousand words
You can tell if equipment is shot and hasn't moved in 2 years or more
New tires worth a $ 2000 + ? to replace for starters
I bought a Timberjack 230D by word of mouth about 5 years ago for 16,500 on a farm for 40 years w new tires
and no issues
Sold it last year for 24,500
Look for something reasonably good, and taken care of, they are still out there
My 2 cents 😎

Yessir! that is sound advice. Going to look at a 1978 540b tomorrow. Hopefully it checks out. I think that should fit the job description just fine. Anyone want to chime in on this? (540b)

thank you for the advice

[BargeMonkey]

Not sure where your located but out east here your going to get 540B parts alot easier than for the other. 4-276 engine, 3325 winch, they weren't bad machines. 

[monasheemonster]

Hi BargeMonkey, I'm in the heart of southern bc logging country. I know of at least two other 540's in my home valley. I don't think they are too rare. As long as the powershift transmission is in good shape and the basics check out, is there anything else to check out? common problems? I've heard their frames can be compromised? Anyone know off hand procedure to check final drives? any telltale signs for bad planetaries or transmission ect?

Not sure where your located but out east here your going to get 540B parts alot easier than for the other. 4-276 engine, 3325 winch, they weren't bad machines.

[BargeMonkey]

It's not uncommon to see a 640 / 640D with the frame plated - reinforced by the arch and axle, 440-540 is all patched up it's probably had a real hard life. There's grease fittings for the axle bearings on top of the axle inboard the tires, they get 3-4 pumps but if they don't take grease or missing that says something. Wheel seal leaks, see a puddle of oil on the inside of the tire, another sign. I've been around more D's than Bs but they aren't really far apart, minor changes. Out here the parts are around still, alot of them still going. The covid hype is over and watching the used iron market soften pretty good, the deals are around. B model doesn't have the D series parking brake, and a 3325 winch can be finicky but do work good once you set one up. 23.1 tires ? Axles have plugs for checking levels. Typically you can tell right off if something is pounded, center pins aren't bad to do on one of them, steering pins aren't bad as long as they aren't clapped right out. 

[monasheemonster]

It's not uncommon to see a 640 / 640D with the frame plated - reinforced by the arch and axle, 440-540 is all patched up it's probably had a real hard life. There's grease fittings for the axle bearings on top of the axle inboard the tires, they get 3-4 pumps but if they don't take grease or missing that says something. Wheel seal leaks, see a puddle of oil on the inside of the tire, another sign. I've been around more D's than Bs but they aren't really far apart, minor changes. Out here the parts are around still, alot of them still going. The covid hype is over and watching the used iron market soften pretty good, the deals are around. B model doesn't have the D series parking brake, and a 3325 winch can be finicky but do work good once you set one up. 23.1 tires ? Axles have plugs for checking levels. Typically you can tell right off if something is pounded, center pins aren't bad to do on one of them, steering pins aren't bad as long as they aren't clapped right out.

THis is good stuff

I checked out the 540b this morning. Light duty use since 2007, when the now 84 year old had a woodlot license. Only had 1 battery when i showed up, newish, took a minute to get enough juice to the starter and clean up contacts ect. I was impressed how he climbed around.

Machine fired up without any fanfare, no smoke, good idle. 

transmission shifted well enough, centre pin felt good and looked good. no major leaks, blade shuddered just a bit when lifting full speed.....steering cylinders had a little bit of play when driving and turning. Nothing major.

It had a gearmatic 19 on it. Has been refurbished. Hasn't been used hard in years so unwinding it this morning was armstrong. I imagine this would loosen up with use. Spooled nicely, i did not however get to test its holding power.

Tires were decent considering the age. NO chains though.

cable in good shape, about 5 chokers on it.

Here's the kicker.. a let down... I saw the slightest bit of unclarity in the coolant, and thought i saw bubbles (when warming up)...put it to the back of my mind because it was hard to tell. After a long warm up, I drove up a moderate grade rd and started noticing mist....Next thing i know there's a coolant leak. Couldn't find anything obvious, so rolled back down the hill. Fan Misting coolant the entire time. Block wasn't hot. Put 8 liters water in, let it sit for a while, fired it up and watched rad with cap off. Combustion gases! with cap back on, it spewed coolant out of overflow. You should have seen the face of the old timer. He was in shock when he saw me coming back down the hill steaming away. He had no idea about the leak. Must have been the slowest leak that happened to get bad because the machine was actually run for the first time in a while.

the covid hype is over, i've noticed this in my used saw sales and motorcycle market, now also the machine market. This 540b has been posted a while and i was the first person to actually show up and look at it. Wood market is down and everything here iron wise is large scale, old line skidder demand is low. Considering this. I made an offer after I called around for worst case scenario head repair/replace/mechanic costs ect and calculated lost time and a little cushion and made an offer. If it sticks, i think i have myself a good working unit after headgasket/head work.

Theres yet more options out there so I'm all ears for advice. WIsh i could post a video. Maybe a youtube link?

[BargeMonkey]

GearMatic or a 3325 deere winch ? Gearmatic I don't know much, 3325 isn't bad, keep the dry side "dry", couple custom wrenches, not a bad winch.
Looks like that winch ? 


Did you get the engine tag ? Confirm it's a 4-276T ? Still has the deer tin tags on the hood ? The valve controller to your left that runs the winch isn't CHEAP if they go bad, it's a boneyard / specialty item anymore. Couple places in Maine are your best bet to get certain parts, bands. I've seen newer skidders I could stick 2-3 fingers in the steering pin holes like a blown out sorority girl and guys where running them, tiny slop isnt horrible. What size tires ? 23.1 is going to be your best bet, 18.4 isn't bad, 16.9x30s, 23.1 will keep you on the ground the best. Chains are around if you watch, especially the smaller sizes find them on marketplace. Bad head gasket, cracked head, your still some time and money. Depends what it looks like you get the head off, your halfway there at that point to doing an overhaul. 
 It's gotta be a CLEAN 540B on 23.1s to bring 20k here, even that's alot. Another guy I deal with paid 10k for one during covid that needed minor work. You guys don't have the cable skidders like we do out here I don't think, couple clean 440Ds here for 25, seeing 540G3s not all stove up for 50k now. I'm watching stuff slow way down, friends of mine from OH, VT, ME say the same thing. People aren't hungry or broke enough yet but it's coming unfortunately. 

[bushmechanic]

That winch is a Gearmatic 8A, you can still get most parts for them. The model 9 was more popular and came after those. I'm not a fan of the gearmatic but there are a lot of them out there.