Anyone been heaaring about the cougar sitings around the state? I picked up a pamphlet from the Sherrifs Dept animal control division that informed the public of the cats. Animal control and their chief swore these cats are all over. Does anyone know other than the DNR of info. Acouple years ago over in Harrisville I bought breakfast for some political wannabe and the subject turned to the DNR. According to him there was a release of wolves in Presque Isle county. Does anyone have info on either of things?
thanks johnday
johnday, read this post way back to 2000
https://forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=hunting;action=display;num=27;start=18#4
The wolves are being reintroduced around the state.
Right now there are several packs around Michigan.
Cougars are very common, most people don't see them because the cats almost always know the people are there and stay out of sight.
Years ago the people that live right behind my parents bought a pet cougar. Fixed up a real nice, room sized pen made out of chain link in the house for it. The son would take it outside to play. Beautiful creature! It was still a young one, but as big as our Golden at the time. Some of the other neighbors found out and started causeing trouble. Ended up in the hands of the township which said it had to go. I guess they moved it North aways to a relatives place.
Next township over there was someone that didn't live there but used the property to house his collection of big cats.
Got kicked out too I belive.
Anyways, people buy animals like these for pets and then when they get bigger and are too much to handle or get kicked out, as in these cases, are sometimes let go into the wild. So even if the cats aren't native wild cats, I totally belive there are wild cougars in Michigan.
It wouldn't surprise me.
We were hunting (OK, nice walks in the log-over country side with a dog and a gun) some land near Sault Ste. Marie and the mud along the roads were covered in big cat prints, some of them must have been fresh because Deputy Dawg put his nose to one and got REAL close to me and stayed that way for some time.
If there are very many north of the river, pretty good chance there are some in the UP at least.
Thanks guys; In the last week down in southern Wayne county, in Sumpter township, there was a cougar sighting. Ofcourse in that part of the state it scared people so badly that at one of the elementary schools recess was being held inside! I've long heard reports of cougars in the LP but never saw one. There have been many reports in Monroe county of them . Our friends, I use that term loosley in the DNR keep trying to pass them off as feral domestic cats. But I know too many outdoor types that have seen tracks at the least, and some have even been lucky enough to see what made them. At the Animal control division of Monroe County Sheriff Dept, I was told that some of the officers had seen them. Yep, I'm sure there here and glad of it. After all, the ARE a native species of Michigan.
Next, the wolf. No better critter has ever been built. My den walls are lined with nothing but wolf photos and paintings that actually look like wolves.[It's hard to find a painting like that]. I know only of the two packs on Isle Royale. I spent some time there but "all" I saw were moose, up close and real personal. My wife even ran head first into one on a trail. Never got to see the wolves tho. Again, another native that I myself would like to have more of.
Furby, where are the wolf packs you know of? Don't worry, I would never consider hurting one of them.
I have very mixed feelings about the wolves. They are now established near our family's cabin in the east end of the U.P. I have seen two things that I personally attribute to the wolfs and do not like. No fawns with our does for two years running, and have you ever saw a group of deer come OUT of a cedar swamp in mid winter with the temperatures in the teens to lie on a frozen pond? Tell me, what could be so frightening in that swamp to force the deer from the life saving thermal cover to spend the nights on the ice?
You got it Jeff.
I would be suprised if lions and wolves were NOT there,
also. They naturally fill the void as predators....when allowed to .
There was a reason that lions , wolves and bears , as well as buffalo and elk were basically irreadicated in the east. The predators are a ripping tearing , MERCILESS killing machines.
I have seen what they do, and I Know for a fact they could care less if a deer is alive as they eat it....it is as heart rending as anything I have seen in my life, and I have killed MANY animals. Does that mean they are evil? Nope. But that is what they do..Buffalo and elk just dont fit into what we want to do , cause they go where they want and do what they want....We cant control them.Is that wrong, nope, but I still like to see em.
I also have doubts about re-introducing the wolves in Wisconsin. Now the farmers are losing calves, and there has been a big effect on the deer. They are becoming bolder and have multiplied rapidly without any control. There is thinking of a hunting season for the wolves now.
The biggest problem I have is the millions of tax dollars spent on bringing them back, taking care of them, tracking them, and paying off the farmers for lost animals. The hunters who are having their hunting dogs killed are also interested in being paid (but its not something that money can replace).
I'm not with the crowd that thinks because it once was, that we should get 'em back. With that thinking, will we try to get the sabre tooth, the wooly mammoth, and the dinosaurs back ??? ::)
Apparently the wolves have reduced the coyote population big time. Coyotes were never a big problem, in my experience. Not like the wolves are. I like the one I have a painting of on my bedroom wall, however. :)
Looks like I may have opened a can of worms on the wolf subject. What you guys said about the bad points of the wolves are true. But, they are a natural thing, and Mommy nature can seem very cruel. I guess you could look at it as a mixed blessing. I don't like to see any animal suffer and I've been known to put them down when I had no choice. I also support hunting, so please , no one think of me as a tree hugger. There are good and bad in all things when it comes to wildlife. Even the deer if left unchecked can cause great harm in crop loss and vehicle accidents and disease in the herd. Predators have their place also. Let us not forget that our cats and dogs can be very efficient predators themselves.
What the final answer is, I don't know. But I do know that all animals in this world have a purpose. No slap at anyone, I think, but sometimes I wonder what is actually the smarter and more humane species, in other words, them or us! ;D
The way I look at it, the disappearance in some areas of the wolf and the cougar was a natural thing. Man was involved but he was acting as a participant in a chain according to the need to have or protect. Things that all creatures do.
The reintroduction is an unnatural thing, do to another influence. Something only man can do. Reason. Kind of a paradox on this if I say "think about it eh?"
Jeff,
You are becoming quite the 'PILL osopher' :D :D :D
In Mo, they reintroduced the river otter. The conservation dept released just a few and had doubts that they would survive. Because of lack of natural predators that they once had, the ottors multiplied rapidly. Now they have a trapping season on them cause they have wiped out the fish in many of the streams and ponds >:(
I guess they need to reintroduce wolves here to control the otters.
Then there is the multiflora roses that they introduced in the late 40's. Living fence------bird santuary etc. We spend several dollars and hours every year trying to controll them on our place.
Johnday,
Been looking for the last artical I read that mentioned some of the locations but can't seem to find it. I do remember as Jeff said, in the eastern part of the U.P., and I also remember some talk of some in the northeastern lower pen..
I know one of the collages did a survey this past winter concerning how much info the general public had on the wolves. I can't remember the collage either. Sorry.
The info must be on the net someplace, will look around.
Info:
Gray Wolf Federally Reclassified (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370-69984--,00.html)
Gray Wolf (Canis lupus) (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12145_12205-32569--,00.html)
Several good links at the bottom of the page of this link. ;)
All I could really find on the DNR website on cougars is that they are protected. But they ARE there in the paperwork. ::)
Furby; Thanks for the links. Now I wonder how much the DNR really does or doesn't know, or purposely give disinformation?
What tips me off on this thought is the Bald Eagle population. On just about any given day I can find eagles in Monroe county as well as Alcona county. This is at any time of the year. I definetley aren't mistaking them for anything else. Soooooo, I'm curious as to how many nesting pairs we really have. There is something inside me that says the DNR isn't telling the full truth about the eagles, let alone the wolves and cougars, or they sure have a bunch of incompetents. If I'm wrong, and I hope I am, about the incompetents, I wish some of these guys would come forth and speak to us commoners. Notice I said speak to, and not down to. Many think the DNR has gotten way too big for their britches. What do the rest of you guys think?
I think that most DNR I have dealt with in this country either are incompetent in reporting the facts or deliberately lie.
I have seen a few that seem down to earth and, as they are suppossed to be, PUBLIC SERVANTS.
When game bioligists, take surveys and do thier business, I suppose they have special skills above and beyond regular folks :P...............because they SWEAR there are no wolves, or cougars, or that some spotted owl is definitely extinct in an area...........but a common idiot (deer hunter) who spends 8 hrs a day sitting in a tree stand seems to have a whole lot clearer and reasonable prospective ;D...when he SEES a cougar or wolf.......or owl nesting in a K-Mart sign. :o
I hear the same reports and denials all over the country.....and people are ALWAYS incredulous.....they cant believe the obvious error in these DNR EXPERTS........ :)
A few years ago, we had a provincial biologist miss identify a skinned black bear for a 14 year old boy. The carcass had no head or feet. Still, how could ya mis identify a dead bear. ::)
We have coyotes, but no wolves here. I like having the coyotes as they control the rodents, especially the hairs. He don't have a high population of deer here locally, never did. What deer get killed by the coyotes would be in winter, during harsh times. Deer aren't even native to New Brunswick, they moved in from the south and carried the brain disease that kill moose and have wiped out the woodland caribou. Except for a tiny popluation of woodland caribou on the Gaspe pennisula they are about extinct.
When I worked along some of the islands of the pacific north west it was common the see wolf tracks and alot of the time they walked by the camp in the night. But, they never ever bothered us in the bush. These islands have mountain goat, bear, wolves, Sitka deer and all got along in harmony. One trip we even had the crap scared out of us as there was a resident cougar in the area. I'm telling ya when he growled the guys made for the shore line real quick like. I took some photos of the scat and tracks it made along the road we walked to our work sight. I'de be more scared of that thing than any bear or wolf any day of the week.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/cougarprint.jpg)
This print is nearly 4 inches wide. The photo is out of focus as the picture was taken closer than 4 feet away.
Some prints to compare - Click (http://www.bear-tracker.com/cougar.html)
We were told that it was rare for a cougar sighting in this area because of the wet climate. But, none-the-less cougars are definately there. This was in Douglas Channel near Hartley Bay indian reservation.
I got an e-mail a week ago which claimed to be a picture of a mountain lion stalking a deer shot by a hunting scout camera. Location was said to be just South of Ludington Mi. during September. However upon examining the picture it was clear that the deer was a blacktail deer not a white tail. Also I was not able to identify the vegetation in the photo. Didn't look like any kind of bush I've seen in Michigan. Chalk one up as bogus.
That being said, my in-laws have seen mountain lions in Western U.P. several times. One of their neighbors saw one cross his back yard and immediatly called the DNR. They claimed it couldn't be a mountain lion and was probably a ferral cat. He said, " ok I'll get the rifle out and dust that varmit next time I see it". He laughed and said you should have heard the back pedaling from the DNR.
Another neighbor who raises sheep was visited by the DNR last year and they wanted to know what they would have to pay in restitution should any of his sheep get killed. He asked them if they were worried that he would kill the mountain lion that had been hanging around his place the last few weeks.They acted worried but said they were concerned about coyote predation. Right, like they worry about that. He said they hemmed and hawed and said that there were wolves around and finally threatened him if he should shoot the mountain lion. He reminded them that he had the right to protect his livestock under Michigan law.
They have finaly admitted that these cats are around but claim that they think they are domestic in origin.
My brother-in-law saw a black panther over 2 winters while logging in the Misery Bay area.
this isnt about cougares we have them here we also have black panthers..i know they arent supposed to be here... so says the dec.. i say bs. one of our friends is dec and they let wolves a pair, 7 rattlers (in a place where kids are camping!) then the coydogs coyotes are a different story! when i worked at a water/sewer treatment plant across the road there was a momma pappa and 3 baby WOLVES!! not coy dogs. omg they were gorgeous and they loved me! i swear they new my schedule on the weekends because theyd "preen" and show the babies i loved them and my partner on opposite weekends swore they were waiting for me because theyed howl like it was a death thing id come back and mama would be fine! i know its really weird huh? they left when i quit and now i SWEAR they are at my parents house...they followed me home lol
It's official!!! No we don't have cougars but we do have wolves in the Lower Penisula. One was trapped in a coyote set and shot by the trapper who thought it was a big coyote until he saw the collar. It had been collared near Moran in the UP and was killed in Presque Isle Co. The DNR has proof now 8) ;) ;D
:D :D Hahaha :D Hahaha :D Hahaha :D :D
Corley; What surprises me, the DNR didn't try to pass it off as a Malamute!! That wolf travelled a little sounds like. He must have crossed on the ice? 8)
It's good to see I'm not the only one that has no faith in the DNR ;D
I didn't see any local news tonight but according to the boss this morning a media frenzy was expected. I work for the DNR you see ;) ;D It is suspected that the animal probably crossed the Straights on the ice and then followed the deer yards down the shoreline towards Roger City.
Corley5; Slap my face and call me red!!! :-[ I'm going to have to start watching what I write. I finally learned the hard way about my mouth. Obviously, your one of the GOOD DNR guys. Now, it's your turn, I'm still working for DTE Energy, and we all know what kind of incompetent robbers the power companies are!! ::) :(
;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Don't worry I'm used to it ;D ;D
One of our neighbors caught a mountain lion on her trail camera last week. I was real suprised. We had been hearing rumors about big cats in the area, but I really didn't believe them. However I am very suprised that the big cats are not going after the livestock in the area. You would think a cow would be easier for it to hunt down, than a deer. Becky (the fat Belgian horse) has been acting a little nervous lately!
Would be great if you could post a pic of that 'trail camera' catch. Any chance?
Back to the wolfs for a moment. Lou Kurtis, who owns most of the section across from the cabin showed me a bag of crunched long bones from several deer collected from his property. Many showing the bite and tooth marks. Apparently that is a way to tell the difference between coyote and wolf, that wolfs will crunch the long bones in a deer, where coyotes simply clean them off.
JeffB; I'd have never thought the wolves would be that far down in the LP. I'm glad they are there on one hand, and a little concerned on the other. Down in Monroe county a few years ago, a guy about 2 miles from me shot a coyote. He said he was protecting his kids and he had no idea coyotes were around. ??? Well DUH, talk about not knowing your surroundings. This great white hunter even made the front page of the local newspaper. Sort of makes you wonder what would happen if it had been a wolf. You know what happened with little red riding hood! ;D
Hey Patty,
Have you seen Jurassic Park???
They want to hunt, not be fed. Kind of the same thing.
Humans have nothing to fear from wolves, never heard of anyone being killed by one. But, the livestock are in danger, for sure if theire natural food supply is low. As I said before I worked amongst them and rarely would they show themselves. If your going to be afraid of the woods, ya might as well stay home. Alot of the guides back in the 19th century never talked about anyone being hurt or attacked by them. In fact bear were becoming more of a nuisance because of the sheep and young moose they killed.
cheers
johnday, the cabin is in Detour Village in the U.P.
Donk, our concern is for our deer population up there which has been almost nill for several years after a severe winter kill in that area. Bear hunting (if the dnr will give you a permit) it outstanding, but to see a deer is an event. To see wolf sign is more common all the time and by everyone that I know up there is unwanted. One of those things I would have liked to see a vote on. :-/
The wolves up here to be found only in the Boundary Waters and near some of the border lakes, but lately I've seen them near the shore of Lake Superior. However we have a near problem population of deer. Way too many.
We now have three species of cat up here also. Bobcat, cougar(panther mtn lion take your pick) and Canadian Lynx have been seen recently. So far the only nuisance is the wolf, now not many folks up here raise sheep and a couple of good dogs spares most all of the calves but pets are witnessed getting gobbled up a few times each year. Cats have it pretty tough up here, one morning they just don't come home and it leaves you to wonder WHAT got them? Besides the predators I mentioned there's, coyotes, red and gray foxes, fishers and pine martins, not to mention great gray owls, goshawks ospreys and eagles! Tough life to be a cat up here :o
Only one that I remember a person being threatened was three years ago a young wolf took a poodle right of the leash as the pet owner was holding the other end! Just a might traumatic for the poor woman!
The most dangerous animal up here is still the moose. Cows with calves and bulls in rut are both DanG scary critters!
JeffB; Been thru De Tour many times. Even in the middle of winter!
Swamp Donkey; I tend to agree that humans are not at risk around wolves. From what I've seen first hand and have read, they want nothing to do with us. Pets? Now there is a potential problem. Down in Monroe county, my wife and I rescue all nationalities of critters. When we get "up north" we plan on more of the same. Guess we'll have to keep an "eagle eye" on them. [pun intended] 8)
John:
I think I follow ya. I know for a fact that around here osprey, eagles and owls have taken pet cats and small dogs. They're bones are in and at the base of nests on hydro line towers or white pine trees or cavity trees, respectively. For some reason people like to blame things are certain animals. Some times them deer are bothered by packs of domestic dogs. At the end of the farm here one winter a pack of dogs was runnin the deer on their yards in our cedar woods. The dogs were runnin loose from over in Maine. Our farm was on the USA border. The deer were in there where we thinned out some cedar, they were eating the cedar tops and lichen off the old trees. Wasn't no coyotes nor wolves involved. Coyotes eat small game 99.99999% of the time, mainly mice, moles, rabbits and grouse. I ain't yet seen a deer hind quarter (nor any other part of a deer) near a den.
Wolf attacks on humans rare but does happen.
http://www.natureswolves.com/human/index.html
Ok then, I have to say that there have been many more humans killed by domestic dogs than wolves too. I don't think there will be dog bounties, although I will gladly drop a dog chasing any wildlife or domesticated farm animal if its not the sole intended purpose -> (sheep dogs, cow dogs, rescue dogs, police dogs, seeing-eye dogs) ;D
P.S. Some times wolf attacks reported have very sketchy evidence that some folks make fit the circumstances to, especially those deathy against certain animals. Can't dispute that it is possible to be attacked though. But, as I stated above the early guides in my area hunted and lived in wolve territory and were never attacked. There are no wolves in NB now, just coyotes. ;)
Below are a few interresting stories from many years ago my wife fond in local newspaper articles.
WOLF ATTACK
Clark County Press – 1876
On Friday night of last week a German living in the Town of Perkins had an encounter with three wolves. The animals showed a decided inclination to make a meal of him, but he succeeded in fighting them off. After following him about a half a mile they disappeared, leaving him a sound but badly frightened individual. This is the first time we have ever heard of any person being attacked by those animals in this county, but we have the facts from reliable authority and do not doubt its accuracy.
LOCAL MATTERS
Plainfield News – 1881
A Waupaca county man had an encounter recently with seven wolves, killing them all with the but end of his musket, not however until they had torn his cloths from his body and bitten and scratched him quite severely. His reward was a bounty of $77.
........................
WOLVES TRY TO CARRY OFF GIRL
Neillsville Republican & Press – 1901 (State News)
Attack the Child on Her Father's Farm Near Portland Center
La Crosse, Wis., Sept. 6 – Carrie Swinerud, a 9 year-old girl, living a mile from Portland Center, was attacked by wolves last night and before her screams brought assistance her arm and legs were badly lacerated. She was playing on farm premises, not far from a house, when the animals appeared and attempted to carry her off into the woods. The arrival of her father frightened them and they scampered off. The girl will recover.
....................
Sheerwood:
Killing 7 wolves with the butt end of a musket is a bit of a stretch, don't you think. ;)
Forgot to mention. Some folks do raise young wolf pups as dogs too, and are not very trusting. I wouldn't leave them around children unless they were well fed.
My mother's uncle was a trapper for years that skinned firs for many people from many critters. One animal he skinned happened to be a nuisance neighorhood dog that got into a trap. He sent it to the fir trade and they assessed it as a timber wolf, but it was definately the nieghbors dog with wolf markings and long legs. He new it was a dog, the neighbor claimed his dog never left home. When the neighbor was looking for his dog he asked uncle if he seen it. Replied, if your dog never leaves home then this can't be your dog. ;D
cheers
Coyotes are main predator of whitetails in Mi. The Northern Lower anyway. They rarely kill a healthy adult deer it's the fawns that are their main prey in the late spring and summer. Coyotes are the usual reason that mature does are seen without fawns. We have does that bring their young ones up to and around the barns to hide them in the tall grass where they're safer. Not that coyotes won't come in close but with our activity the fawns will hold tight where the doe puts them and the coyotes don't like us. Something about high-speed lead poisoning ;D ;)
First off, I'm not trying to make anyone on here look foolish. I'm just presenting my thoughts, comments, and giving folks something to think about. I'm certainly no wildlife expert and am not trying to pass myself off as one. Although, on these forums its hard to tell what tone is being expressed sometimes by folks. Ok, enough about that. ;)
I've seen coyote tracks in spring that melted in the warming sun on the snow. Looked like a big cat tracks. Some folks confuse that too, and especially those that don't know how to ID animal tracks. I'm certainly no expert myself on that subject. But, my grandfather and his brother were certainly experts and they covered a mighty scope of ground in their guide outfitting business and never seen any cougars or wolves. Now we are hearing stories of wolverines and badgers here even, that never were here as long as the white man settled here. At least they weren't reported. Seen one wolverine in BC and certainly couldn't confuse that bugger.
Dana ask the fella if he was drinking a little, all kidding aside, some folks can see things under the influence that are something else. I do know that folks confuse fisher at a long distance away for black panthers. Some folk's depth perception are not that sharp. ;)
Grand father was onced asked if they could come to New Brunswick to hunt polar bears. He replied, you can come here and hunt polar bears, elephants, tigers and anything you want. Don't mean your going to get one. :D
Hi there, Jest hanging out, doin my thing for this thread. In several places. :)
I gather from Jeff's comment that he has the mop and pail out 'mopping' up after some 'posters'. ???
Or is it more like carrying the plastic bag while walkin the dog in town? ;D
Thanks Jeff
Keep up the good work. :)
Well he's purdy good at his job, cause I missed what ever it was he cleaned up. That's a good admin I'd say.
Seven wolves with the butt end of a musket, well, double HUH! It seems credibility was not a factor as much as we would like to think it was back in the Good Olde Days :D
Appears that wolf attacks on humans are alot like UFO sightings, maybe, maybe not. I would imagine perhaps some humans may have been attacked over the last millenia or so. But it would also be intersting to see how many of those attacks could truthfully be blamed on cornering or taunting the animal. And yes, there have been cases where the "terrible wolf dog" has killed. But you could also blame the attack on the dog side of the hybrid as well as the wolf side.
Oh well, looks like the jury is going to be out for many more years, I still like wolves, and I hope we are always lucky enough to have them as well as cougars, wolverines, and eagles. Nature can be beautiful and deadly and gentle all at once. Does anyone really have the right answer?
I don't mind the wolves around here, some do.
The only time I came close a confrontation withthem was three years ago when I was calling in foxes and three timbers decided to answer my sqealling rabbit call. :o
I went home!
Wolves and cougars are not native to our area but cats have been spotted in the river valley running through the city. Apparently they are coming out of the mountains following the deer. We are experiencing mild (for us) winters with little snow which means little winter kill. We are getting over run with deer and elk so crops are taking a beating. Didn't take long for the big cats to figure it out.
Alberta wolves were re-introduced in Colorado and Wyoming, partly to control deer and elk, partly to appease the eco freaks. Now the ranchers are complaining. No easy solutions.
I agree it is not simple solution problem,
it is nice to hear a wolf howl and see one ghosting along through the fog.............
but it is also nice to be able to feed your kids
and not feel the sick feeling looking downt a $1000 spinal cord and skull that remains of your heifer..........
and a pack can eat MANY of em.
I know I'm treading on pretty thin ground here, but I never knew that wolves were such a nuisance to livestock. I know that alot of folks like to paint them as such with quite a wide brush. I sure don't want to critisize the farmers, who have every right to protect their stock. Wolves like dogs, will pack up and chase anything that runs. But, perceptions are sometimes turned into reality depending on who has the louder voice. ;)
Food for thought :D
Since 1978, when the wolf in Minnesota was downlisted from federally endangered to threatened, the United States Fish and Wildlife Service and then the United States Department of Agriculture's Wildlife Services (WS) have conducted lethal control of wolves around farms where depredations have been verified (Fritts 1982, Fritts et al. 1992), a program costing $300,000 in 1998. In addition, the Minnesota Department of Agriculture currently pays about $67,000/year in compensation for livestock confirmed lost to wolves. Conservative projections of these 2 costs exceed $400,000/year for the next few years
Concurrent with the increase in wolves and wolf range, the number of wolves killed for depredation control has increased dramatically from 6 in 1979 to 216 in 1997. Projections show that a conservative estimate of the number of wolves that may need to be killed for depredation control by 2005 might exceed 400/year a serious concern to wolf advocates and environmentalists
source:
http://www.mnforsustain.org/wolf_and_farms_assessing_factors.htm
Thanks for the info on this Buzz, cause as I stated above I never knew it was a serious problem. 400 wolve kills is quite alot for one state, and alot of bucks $$ to control them. The feed must be exceptional to maintain such a nuisance population. I see from stats here in New Brunswick that they harvest about 1500 black bear a year from a population estimate of 16,000. New brunswick is also 85 % forest land too with 28,355 sq mi , Minnesota has 86,943 square miles. Quite alot more land for them wolves to roam in. When I looked up that area of Minnesota I was quite impressed, certainly one of your bigger states. Mind you the Maritime provinces are small because they never got along well enough to make one under confederation. :D
Just a little history why, that has nothing to do with the thread. :D NS and NB used to be one province until 1784 after the settlement of the Empire Loyalists from America. Before that the French and Brits faught over souvernty until the French got expelled in 1755. Empire Loyalist were loyal to Britain.
After decades of uncertainly, the Michigan DNR now confirms UP cougar. Well preserved tracks from the Delta County animal have been confirmed by DNR biologists as a cougar's. DNA testing from the Delta County tracks appear to confirm they are genetically related to western US, not South American animals.
The Northwoods Call
Eastern Cougars Extinct.
The US Fish and Wildlife Service has declared the eastern cougar subspecies to be extinct, but this has no relationship to cougar populations in Michigan according to Russ Mason, Wildlife Chief for the DNR. There is no
unanimity of thought among cougar researchers as to how many subspecies of cougar exist or have existed, but they are all listed as state endangered and will remain thus protected until they reach a viable, self-sustaining population level. If you should see a cougar in Michigan, there is an online observation form; the DNR would like to know about it.
DNR listserve
Cougar in Houghton County
http://www.petoskeynews.com/news/pnr-dnr-confirms-presence-of-cougar-in-houghton-county-20110927,0,6429196.story
Same cougar was photographed on a trailcam in Ontonagon county a couple weeks back and Wisconsin before that. He is making his way around the Midwest. Ha
Another cougar photo in U.P.
http://www.ironmountaindailynews.com/page/content.detail/id/535728.html
I lived at Sand Lake, MN. by a Cougar crossing, i was under my pickup fixing a lose muffler. It was just getting dark, when all of a sudden i heard a scream like howl, very loud. I don't scare easy, in all my years living here i never heard such a noise, it didn't take me long to get in the house. :o
There have been cougars sighted here in Up-State New York too.
About 20 years ago, one of my brothers (he had cattle at that time) was out after dark to see what was making the cattle nervous and caught sight of a cougar as it was about to enter the woods, not far from the cattle.
About 8 years ago I was on my way home from the bus garage and I had a cougar cross the road about 50 yards ahead of me. Line of sight, this sighting was only about 1 mile from my house.
Cougars are here, but usually not seen.
A cougar mulled a horse around Aitkin, MN. a week ago, about 125 miles from me.
Cougar illegally killed in Schoolcraft County; DNR conservation officers apprehend suspects
Michigan Department of Natural Resources law enforcement officials have confirmed a cougar was illegally killed last week in the Upper Peninsula's Schoolcraft County.
Acting on a tip that a cougar had been illegally killed at a hunting camp in northeast Schoolcraft County, DNR conservation officers and Special Investigations Unit detectives were able to successfully recover evidence and identify and apprehend two suspects from Bay County.
Upon completion of the DNR's investigation, the case will be turned over to the Schoolcraft County Prosecuting Attorney with warrant requests for charges. The state penalty for illegally killing a cougar, classified as an endangered species in Michigan, is up to 90 days in jail and fines and restitution of up to $2,500.
Anyone with information about this or any other poaching case is encouraged to call the DNR's Report All Poaching (RAP) hotline at 800-292-7800, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Information can also be reported online at www.michigan.gov/conservationofficers. Tips and information can be left anonymously; information that leads to an arrest and conviction is eligible for a cash reward funded by the state's Game and Fish Protection Fund.
A trail camera photo of a cougar near the same area as this incident was recently confirmed by the DNR's Wildlife Division. Wildlife officials believe the animal killed was most likely the same cougar seen in the recent photo.
Cougars, also known as mountain lions, disappeared from the state in the early 1900s. The last confirmed wild cougar in Michigan prior to 2008 was an animal killed near Newberry in 1906.
Since 2008, the DNR has confirmed photos or tracks of cougars on 23 occasions in 10 Upper Peninsula counties. The animals are believed to be young individuals dispersing from established populations in the Dakotas in search of new territory. There is no evidence of a breeding population of cougars in the state.
The Wildlife Division's specially trained cougar team welcomes citizen reports of possible cougar evidence or sightings. Cougar photos and other evidence – such as tracks, scat or cached kills – should be reported to a local DNR office or through the DNR's online reporting form at www.michigan.gov/cougars.
Nice kitties. ;D
They like to stalk you when you deer hunt in their territory.
The same geniouses from AZ Game and Fish that ended up accidentally killing an endangered jaguar have now reintroduced 30 head of bighorn sheep into the Santa Catalina Mountains. They had previously disappeared over the past 30 years due to the high population of mountain lions. G & F blamed hikers disturbing the sheep.
There is a healthy herd of bighorns that live in and around the open pit mine above Morenci, AZ. The huge trucks (400T capacity) drive right past them, shaking the ground and they don't care. They blast in the pit every day and the sheep don't care. I doubt they are worried about a few hikers.
Anyway, they have just reintroduced these 30 sheep from near Yuma, and the lions have already eaten 3 in the first two weeks. Good use of tax resources. Now they are shooting the lions to reduce their numbers and the A R whackos are coming out in force in defense of the poor kitties. :o :D
I mentioned in an earlier post that my rancher friend lost 80 head of cattle to lions last year. Nobody is rushing in to reimburse him. That is an $80,000 loss on an operation that is barely making it as is.
There is a place here for mountain lions. I think in populated areas less so. There have been several fatal lion encounters in the West over the last 20 years. When they don't ever get hunted, they become emboldened, more likely to look at people as food. The same thing is happening with the bears. Too bad we have to just keep repeating mistakes over and over again.
They used to call it wildlife management. I'm wondering where the management part went to.
One last little comment. The entire western portion of the Santa Catalina Mountains is now closed to the public so they don't look at the sheep and scare them to death. This is now the exclusive playground of G & F employees and their guests.
I am not impressed.
Cougars in Missouri too. I saw the tracks-in-the-snow sign this past week. Checked for my pocket pistol..not there! Didn't even wear my blaze orange cap..I've heard cats are afraid of orange?
'Officials' for many years denied the presence of mountain lions. Political, self-serving and self-promoting individuals in higher conservation positions can not afford to be wrong.
When they are wrong and a bad outcome results, it seems there are no consequences anyway. >:(
Just finished reading the local scandal sheet. Two relevant stories. One about excessive travel expenses by G & F officials. Don't really know about that one, but I think it goes to show they aren't short of money relative to other state agencies.
Second one says the lions just got another sheep. That's 4 in 3 weeks.
And then there were 26. I'll keep you posted.
Kitties are hungry.
NOT trying to offend any one here but for those of you like the wolf look up save elk .com it will tell you what is going in western Mont nortern Idaho and Wyoming some of the pictures aint good :snowball:
Wolves are pretty but they are not cute doggies. They will rip your guts out given the chance. My dad's grandfather homesteaded in Montana around the turn of the last century. The wolves would dig at the doors and windows to try to get at the family. Had to blast them in the face at the front door of the cabin with a 12 gauge so they could go outside and get to the woodpile so they wouldn't freeze to death. They called it quits after a few of these winters, great grandma minus one leg.
I can't even imagine.
Still have the shotgun. ;D
Not giving it up. ;D
In the teens until the depression my grandpa was a teamster in the woods in the U.P. in Ontonagon County. Among his duties was to go into town with his team and a sleigh once a week to get food for the lumber camp. He said most of the trips back from town when he was loaded with food he would see curious wolves following the sleigh at a distance for short periods. I asked him if he was ever afraid when they were checking him out. "No.", He said. "They never bothered any body."
I have seen a number wolves in the woods at distances as close at 50 feet. I've also seen 15 or more lions over the years including mothers with cubs. And bears? It certainly must number in the 100s. The last bear I saw was while bow hunting elk last year. I was sitting on the ground watching a wallow. The bear walked to within 11 feet (measured the next day) of me and stood there for 5 full minutes sniffing. We where at eye level to each other. Awesome! Its hard to believe I'm alive to tell the tales. (sarcasm) None of these critters are anything to be afraid of.
Unless you are a deer a calf or someones pet...
I would just as soon we kept our distance from each other.
They are now up to 7 dead bighorn sheep out of 30. All lion kills.
SliverPicker, it goes back to the saying, the only thing to fear, is fear itself. Cougars are killing machines and if they wanted you, not much you could do about it. No one has ever been killed by a wolf in the lower 48, and stay away from bears with cubs. My question is, how are there not cougars all over the upper Midwest and Northeast.
Don't worry terry, they'll be there. After years of "being told" we didn't have them in Nebraska we now have a hunting season for them, of course this is several years after one was shot while stalking a nearby towns playground while the kids were out for recess ???
How many can be killed and can you use hounds.
Not sure about the hounds and it was a very limited number of tags, this was the first year I'll have to look into it a little bit. I have a neighbor girl about a mile away that runs a lot and one evening she ran up on our other neighbors 2 great pyrannese? fighting one. She was only in 8th grade at the time and ran another mile and a half down the road to the next house to get a ride home. No one believed her until they went to Omaha to the zoo later that summer and she said "there, that's what I saw". I never had a doubt, she was scared to death and had no reason to lie. We have a few bobcats around here but I've never seen a mountain lion personally, and I really don't care to.
Experts claim cougar are coming in to Missouri from Nebraska via Missouri river valley. They are mostly young males seeking female cougs, supposedly no breeding going on in Missouri, hmmm. ???
Seemingly, the whole aim of modern conservation is to restore wild game as it once was BC [Before Columbus}. Bring back the wolves, Elk, bear, and cougar. An article in a monthly Missouri farm magazine reported NRCS sponsored "USDA WETLANDS" in some Mississippi River countys were being restored in part to 'canebrake thickets' to enhance habitat for swamp-rabbits and canebrake rattlesnakes.
If all the bad people just went away, then nature would be happy and Gaia would smile upon all the animals. ;D 8) 8) 8) :snowball:
Nature = good, People = bad. ::)
Something of interest if you have a Missouri connection is in the February issue of "Misssouri Conservationist" magazine..a great publication usually. But on page 2 someone sent in a photo of a lower base trunk of a sycamore [does not look sycamore to me but I've been known to be wrong}, the tree nearly 13' in circumference; yet, the photo showing that a beaver has completely girdled the tree and will likely fall in the next wind storm.
The comments, seemingly boastful, of the novelty of having such an apparently "giant ghost beaver" are amusing to me. For one thing, what is the worth of this magnificent tree ? What devotion to dozens of ecological benefits has this tree provided in its lifetime? I've seen hundreds and hundreds of trees damaged and girdled down to waste from , let's say, "over achieving beaver"! ???
So, what's the point? The point is...someone needs to invent a 'girdling post' to save trees! :)
Quote from: SliverPicker on January 26, 2014, 06:57:07 PM
And bears? It certainly must number in the 100s. The last bear I saw was while bow hunting elk last year. I was sitting on the ground watching a wallow. The bear walked to within 11 feet (measured the next day) of me and stood there for 5 full minutes sniffing. We where at eye level to each other. Awesome! Its hard to believe I'm alive to tell the tales. (sarcasm) None of these critters are anything to be afraid of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America#Black_bear_4
The 4 year old's family in 100 mile house,my cousins know.
There were 3 unprovoked Black Bear attacks/maulings while we lived in Pemberton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America
The list is smaller but the people involved are just as dead.
Quote below from Wiki on Cougars.
QuoteBetween 1890 and 1990, in North America there were 53 reported, confirmed attacks on humans, resulting in 48 nonfatal injuries and 10 deaths of humans (the total is greater than 53 because some attacks had more than one victim).[141] By 2004, the count had climbed to 88 attacks and 20 deaths.[142]
Within North America, the distribution of attacks is not uniform. The heavily populated state of California has seen a dozen attacks since 1986 (after just three from 1890 to 1985), including three fatalities.[91] Lightly populated New Mexico reported an attack in 2008, the first there since 1974.[143]
As with many predators, a cougar may attack if cornered, if a fleeing human stimulates their instinct to chase, or if a person "plays dead". Standing still however may cause the cougar to consider a person easy prey.[144] Exaggerating the threat to the animal through intense eye contact, loud but calm shouting, and any other action to appear larger and more menacing, may make the animal retreat. Fighting back with sticks and rocks, or even bare hands, is often effective in persuading an attacking cougar to disengage.[12][93]
When cougars do attack, they usually employ their characteristic neck bite, attempting to position their teeth between the vertebrae and into the spinal cord. Neck, head, and spinal injuries are common and sometimes fatal.[12] Children are at greatest risk of attack, and least likely to survive an encounter. Detailed research into attacks prior to 1991 showed that 64% of all victims – and almost all fatalities – were children.
Quote from: SliverPicker on January 26, 2014, 06:57:07 PM
I asked him if he was ever afraid when they were checking him out. "No.", He said. "They never bothered any body."
While rare in North America it is more common around the world.Here is a fairly long,detailed list of fatal attacks by wolves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks
There are many unprovoked bear attacks in Arizona. Most never are heard of outside of local news since not that many have been fatal recently. That doesn't negate the fairly common maulings. These people are generally disfigured for life.
When my family homesteaded in Montana in the late 1800s they had to fight the wolves off at the door in the winter. Literally.
Maybe not afraid, but aware and respectful are a must! I had a family friend who was mauled by a black bear while sheep hunting back in the early 80's, lots of stitches. I have personally had use lets say "force" to protect myself and dogs from wolves in the past 10 years while hunting near home. The wolves seem to be much better behaved now that there is a legal hunting season in Wisconsin. I don't think the joggers that were killed by cougars on the west coast a few years ago had a chance to be "afraid" but they are still dead... Grandpa used to say there's no fool like a an old fool.
Hunting pressure definitely makes a difference. I am not up to date on CA hunting regs, but my understanding is they don't allow either bear or mt lion hunting. I wonder why they lose their fear. ::)
People claim to see them in Vermont too. I think it's possible. One was killed by a car in CT in 2011 that came over from the Dakotas. There's a lot of potential habitat, and most people wouldn't see something off trail in the woods. I've been in woods in VT so dense you couldn't see a bear if it was 50 feet from you (which I was in fact looking for during bear season), and what I've seen in some of Maine makes that look like a well thinned patch of woods. :D
Personally I see nothing wrong with them returning, and I'd actually like some of them around, wolves too, provided we can keep them under control. Having a few in the deep woods of the mountains is one thing, having them stalking people's kids in town is another thing...
That's all very nice until something happens. I have been stalked by mt. lions on numerous occasions in fairly open country and only found out after the fact when I found their footprints on top of mine going the same direction the next day. They are very good at what they do. Be careful what you wish for. :-\
Their method is to strike without warning. Watch your house cat hunt birds sometime.
The 2 BIG issues with the Deep in the woods theory is there are people living deep in the woods who may disagree and even a larger issue is that time and time again game managers all over North America have proven that they can't keep the critters "deep in the woods". Predators expand their range must quicker than most folks imagine. When the DNR reintroduced wolves to Wisconsin the goal was 100 breeding pairs, now the DNR admits they are well over 1000, and people with an IQ higher than coleslaw know that their figure is mighty low! Other then that them furry beasts are great! ;D
I'm well aware that there are dangers associated with the predators. I had a pack of our eastern coyotes (which are part wolf) following me around the woods while walking out from my deer stand at night a couple years ago. My pistol took care of those problem predators. The mess out west with the wolves is a result of animal rights activists hijacking the management of them after they were successfully restored to the population goals. I like wildlife, including the predators, and the predators have a role in the environment controlling prey species that otherwise overpopulate, overbrowse and destroy the habitat.
Quote from: CJennings on February 03, 2014, 04:51:05 PM
I like wildlife, including the predators, and the predators have a role in the environment controlling prey species that otherwise overpopulate, overbrowse and destroy the habitat.
That is my role as a hunter. No need for wolves in Michigan to do that. Having wolves here doing what I and the hundreds of thousands of other hunters have been doing for years is reducing the number of hunters to the point of it becoming an economic hardship in some places in the U.P. that used to count on those hunter dollars. No deer, no hunters, no pay day for mom and pop yooper businesses.
Jeff, I think that is exactly the point of the promoters of all these reintroductions. Get rid of the hunters. More man bad, nature good thinking. They forget who the top predator on this planet currently is in their thinking. ;D
States that have doe or cow seasons are the ones limiting the future numbers for hunters. Farmers think there are too many deer, hunters think there are not enough. I'd like to think there is still room for predator and prey, whether they are on two legs or four. By the way, more people are killed by deer than cougars.
Quote from: terry f on February 04, 2014, 04:52:31 AM
States that have doe or cow seasons are the ones limiting the future numbers for hunters.
I don't agree. To much of a blanket statement.
Quote from: terry f on February 04, 2014, 04:52:31 AM
By the way, more people are killed by deer than cougars.
Hmm... Lets see, in Michigan we have a lowered population of deer the last several years than we have enjoyed in the previous twenty years, but we still have a heard that in 2012 an estimated 414,004 deer were harvested. I think we have less than 10 officially documented cougar sightings. I can do the math there.
:D You all are going to have to overlook my odd sense of humor .When I first saw this thread title it kind of reminded me of those "lounge lizards " from my earlier wilder moments in life when I wore a younger mans clothes .Cougars can have more than one meaning you know . ;)
If a pregnant doe is killed in December, that's two, maybe three less deer in the spring. That might be a blanket statement, but its a fact. I don't know if any of the 400,000 deer killed were doe's, but that could limit next years population. I don't know if there is a huntable population of wolves in Michigan, but that could add to your hunting season. I hope that's what happens here, like it is in Idaho. There seems to be less hunters every year here, so they keep raising the prices. The statement about more people being killed by deer than cougars, is about the perception of fear. Like I said, no one has been killed by a wolf in the lower 48, in recorded history, the perception of fear.
I don't think predators necessarily create a major a problem for deer hunters. The hunting in Vermont is what attracted many early explorers of the state up from settled areas, it was according to some early records quite good. The same with other areas like the Ohio area, etc., back then. All of those deer with predators around. And up here we had caribou too. When Maine tried to reintroduce caribou, they weren't killed off by predators. It was deer. Deer carry a fatal parasite to caribou (brainworm).
If there's no control over the predators, I think that's when there will be problems.
The lunch count has now reached 10 out of 31. Good job G & F. ;D
Why do you think the bighorn sheep disappeared anyway?
Well, at least they didn't shoot any endangered jaguars lately, at least any that we know of. :-\
Most of the sheep disappeared from man and domestic sheep. That said, I don't know why they don't take out most of the cougars in the area where they are trying to get the sheep going. Cougars are one animal you can wipe out of a area in short order. Most predators control their own population to a point, but I don't see a difference between getting sheep reintroduced to a area or wolves reintroduced. The end game is to get enough so man can kill them.
Quote from: Al_Smith on February 04, 2014, 10:56:31 AM
:D You all are going to have to overlook my odd sense of humor .When I first saw this thread title it kind of reminded me of those "lounge lizards " from my earlier wilder moments in life when I wore a younger mans clothes .Cougars can have more than one meaning you know . ;)
I was with Al, I was going here:
<Picture of Courtney Cox>
I was diasappoint.
But then it would not have been posted in the Outdoor Activities board.
Most probably in the ; "Shows, Events and Places to Meet" board. :D
Quote from: terry f on February 11, 2014, 02:07:59 PM
Most of the sheep disappeared from man and domestic sheep. That said, I don't know why they don't take out most of the cougars in the area where they are trying to get the sheep going. Cougars are one animal you can wipe out of a area in short order. Most predators control their own population to a point, but I don't see a difference between getting sheep reintroduced to a area or wolves reintroduced. The end game is to get enough so man can kill them.
The bot fly issue was much less of a problem out here for bighorns than for herds in other areas as they are quite dispersed and the population was never huge. Most of the domestic sheep grazing was ended in our part of Arizona by 1970. The bighorns disappeared in the Santa Catalina Mountains in the 1990's. So not too likely from domestic sheep. The mountain lion population in these mountains has been at a quite high level since the bounty was taken off them in the 1970's. G & F fought the idea that an excessive lion population was the problem ever since the sheep population started to decline. Better to blame the hikers and close trails into the mountains so only the private club peopled by "game management" types can go there. The way mountain lions work is they keep eating in an area until there isn't any more food. Then they move and do the same thing. Their predation is not some random thing. If they start working sheep, they keep working sheep. My rancher friend lost 100 head of cattle to two mountain lions who just kept doing the same thing until they got killed.
There seems to be some sentiment that mountain lions are just big pretty kitties, kind of like wolves are some kind of regal dog. Reality does not match. There have been many not so good interactions with mountain lions in the Tucson area, as there have been many of them getting into city neighborhoods and killing pets so far. When these animals lose their fear of humans problems get worse. The same line of baloney was said about no mountain lion ever killed anybody. Talk to the California joggers about that one.
Mesquite, can you hunt lions in Arizona? Losing fear of humans is the problem with any critter that can eat you, hunting keeps that fear, but nothing should be hunted to extinction. Oregon has a year round season on cougars, but you can't use hounds, seems to work good here.
They are very hard to hunt without dogs. We also have a year round season, but the hunting pressure is very low. There never was an extinction issue here with mt. lions. Jaguars were always rare here, disappearing in the 50's. More have been coming up from Mexico, but there are very few.
Two lambs have been born to the transplant herd. The score is now 31 - 10 + 2 = 23. ;D
The score for the lions is -4.
Update on the mountain lion fun in Tucson. Now 31-12+2=21 sheeps if the babies lived.
Mountain lions still at -4. The ones that are left are still eating well.
At this rate, bye bye sheep in a year. :(
That is my role as a hunter. No need for wolves in Michigan to do that. Having wolves here doing what I and the hundreds of thousands of other hunters have been doing for years is reducing the number of hunters to the point of it becoming an economic hardship in some places in the U.P. that used to count on those hunter dollars. No deer, no hunters, no pay day for mom and pop yooper businesses.
[/quote]
Where is a single area in the U.P. where there are "no deer"? You are welcomed to come and hunt my property in the U.P. The deer are like lice. The wolves are there also. A video of a real live cougar was shot by my best friend (game camera) only 6 miles from my property. You probably have seen the video or can find it online.
I'm a fifth generation Yooper and a very avid hunter. I welcome the wolves. The deer herd has never looked so healthy. U.P. winters knock out exponentially more deer each year than wolves ever will. They rebound in short order after severe winters by having more twins than usual (long term study in Minnesota).
Wolves? Big deal.
More is being learned of the value of wolves in the eco system, from the control of coyotes to the increase in small mammals and birds. We learn how wrong we have been.
The first thing to come up on my search is "Michigan's Deer Herds Flourish While Hunter's Numbers Decline". Michigan has a population goal of 1.35 million whitetails, but have 1.9 million deer, but the hunter numbers are down 22%. Hunters killed 450,000 deer (which is more than all the mule deer in Oregon), and there are still 500,000 too many. 500 wolves will kill 15-25,000 deer, so it sounds like you need some big cats, goes back to my question, how are there not cougars there?
Next we need to reintroduce grizzlies to control the wolves and lions. ;D Then the real fun begins....
Next bring back t-rex to control the grizzlies :D :D
And maybe some of those kitties with the really long teeth. ;D
Quote from: elk42 on February 23, 2014, 01:51:52 PM
Next bring back t-rex to control the grizzlies :D :D
Geeeesh......Now I wish I had something bigger than my .50 cal Browning!!!! :D :D :D
That'll work. Just have to hit him right. Then after worry about a visit from Fish & Wildlife Service. ;D
Quote from: elk42 on February 23, 2014, 01:51:52 PM
Next bring back t-rex to control the grizzlies :D :D
/quote]
now that would be some fun hunting 8) 8) :laugh: :laugh:
Looks like a 11 year old girl killed a cougar that was following her brother, in central Washington. If this turns out to be as reported, that's pretty awesome.
Two of three suspects plead guilty in illegal killing of cougar in Schoolcraft County (http://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/MIDNR/bulletins/a993c2)
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
March 7, 2014
Contact: Lt. Skip Hagy, 906-293-5131, Debbie Munson Badini, 906-226-1352
or Ed Golder, 517-284-5815
Two of three suspects plead guilty in illegal killing of cougar in
Upper Michigan's Schoolcraft County
Three suspects from Bay and Saginaw counties involved in the Dec. 9 illegal killing of a cougar appeared on March 5 in Schoolcraft County District Court where they were arraigned on warrants related to the killing. Two of the suspects pled guilty and the third entered a not guilty plea.
Troy Robert Richard, 42, of Bay City, pled guilty to the taking/possession of an endangered species and conspiracy to take an endangered species. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail, a three-year revocation of all hunting privileges, $5,775 in fines, court costs and restitution including expenses to preserve the animal for educational purposes. Richard also forfeited the weapon involved in the taking of the animal and was ordered to serve 120 hours of community service.
Theodore Robert Richard, 68, of Munger, pled guilty to aiding and abetting the illegal taking/possession of an endangered species and paid $1,725 in fines and costs, had all hunting privileges revoked for a period of two years and received 96 hours of community service.
Todd Anthony Richard, 43, of Burt, pled not guilty to conspiracy to take/possess an endangered species. He owns and operates a taxidermy business in Bay County and is a brother to Troy Richard.
The crime occurred at the Richards' hunting camp in Germfask Township near Seney in Schoolcraft County on Dec. 9, 2013. The investigation revealed the animal was shot from the subjects' camp when it walked into a deer food plot and drove the deer out while the subjects were muzzleloader hunting for deer. The animal was wounded by Troy Richard with a centerfire 22-250 caliber rifle and it then fled the food plot. It was tracked and located approximately one-quarter mile away the following day and killed.
The investigation also revealed Troy and Theodore Richard then brought the animal back to their camp where they field dressed it and hid it. They proceeded to cook and eat part of the heart. They left for their homes in Bay County shortly after, with the animal intact but field dressed in the back of Troy Richard's pickup truck. Troy Richard reported that he struck a deer with his truck after leaving the camp. He picked up the deer, put it in a trailer with other deer they had killed and transported it to the Michigan State Police post in St. Ignace where he obtained a permit for the roadkill deer all while having the cougar in the truck's bed under a tonneau cover so that it could be hidden from view. DNR investigating officers noted that Richard had ample opportunity to report the cougar killing at this point, but failed to do so.
Troy Richard returned to his residence with the cougar where the animal was skinned and prepared for mounting. The skull was also boiled and preserved; the remains of the carcass were disposed of.
It was discovered when the Richards learned that Michigan Department of Natural Resources conservation officers knew about the poaching, they attempted to hide the evidence at another location. During the investigation, the Richards gave many false statements and had officers searching several areas in the U.P. where they claimed to have disposed of the entire cougar and repeatedly denied that they took the animal home with them. The cougar hide, which had been prepared for mounting, and the skull were eventually recovered, and the entrails of the adult male cougar were also found at the Richards' camp. The suspects ultimately admitted the crime and related it as one of opportunity -- a once-in-a-lifetime chance to kill a cougar in Michigan and have it mounted. Cougars are on the Michigan endangered species list and are a protected animal that may not be hunted.
Anyone with information on any other poaching case may call the DNR's Report All Poaching (RAP) Line 24 hours a day, seven days a week at 800-292-7800. Information can be left anonymously. Information can also be provided online at www.michigan.gov/conservationofficers. Information leading to an arrest and conviction is eligible for a cash reward funded by the Game and Fish Protection Fund.
/NOTE TO EDITORS: Available for download below is a photo of the cougar that was illegally killed in Schoolcraft County. The photo was taken by one of the suspects after he killed the animal./
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/Cougar2BPhoto.jpg)
Good news story. don't know the laws there but would have been nice to have at least a 5 year suspension of his hunting license.
Don't know whats up with eating the heart.....sounds kind mental to me.
Yea, I think permanent revocation would have been okay too. I'm guessing eating the heart is some sort of machismo thing. Maybe it will help when Bubba approaches mr lion killer whilst he is in Jail.
OMG! :D
sliver picker
there will be a time when you'll be crying because the wolves have reduced your deer numbers. trust me when i tell you wolves are like cancer :(
we use to boast (like you) theres deer hiding behind every tree! shoot as many as you want, they breed like rabbitts. guess what happend? wolves moved in and fast forward 6 yrs. i havent seen a deer track this winter period!!! and i snowshoe 2 miles almost everday. my property bumps up to 4000 acres of county forest. zero deer zero.
heres the deers preditor list
1) DNR
2)wolves
3)bear
4)coyotes
5)cars
6)winterkill
when the top 2 arent contained big problems develope quickly
Quote from: SliverPicker on February 22, 2014, 08:13:23 PM
The deer herd has never looked so healthy. U.P. winters knock out exponentially more deer each year than wolves ever will. They rebound in short order after severe winters by having more twins than usual (long term study in Minnesota).
Wolves? Big deal.
I won't doubt what you say for a second what you have there, because how would I know, I don't live there, but it is irrelevant to my area in the Eastern U.P. where you don't live. Right now there is a habitat cut going on on my good friend and neighbor's property right next to me. The logging is attracting Deer. It is now attracting wolves. 2 deer this last week that we know of. The eagles showed the loggers where the fresh kills were. There are probably 20 deer there, so the wolves in the last week have taken 10% of our deer. The loggers are all life long yoopers from the other side of Marquette. They know what a wolf kill looks like. They don't share your opinion. Neither do I.
Update on the Santa Catalina bighorn reintroduction. Mountain lions have now eaten 14 of the original 31 sheep. Two lambs were sighted about a month or so ago, but haven't been seen since. Seems like there is a bit of a surplus of lions in these mountains, as G & F kills one or two after each couple of dead sheep, but more keep coming. ;D :snowball:
If somebody wants to hunt mountain lions in AZ, all you need is a tag from G & F. Open all year.
Mesquite, hunting aint going to do it, fish and game need to go in with hounds and take care of business. Sheep are reintroduced all the time in places with cougars, I don't know why this is so much different.
Hounds do work. Very hard to find one without them, as they are quite wary.
We also have a save the mountain lions protest movement forming here.
It gets funner and funner.
City people who think wolves are cute dogs and mountain lions are just nice kitties should go hang out with them for a while. ;D 8) 8) 8) :snowball:
I like the idea of cats and wolves being in the woods around me, it ads a little something.
Quote from: terry f on March 11, 2014, 04:31:11 AM
I like the idea of cats and wolves being in the woods around me, it ads a little something.
Not a bad idea especially if my chainsaw is running and my pistol and knife are in reach. I've had encounters with a mean dog and a sow in the woods, possibly they were protecting their litters, I know the sow was.
Nothing quite so disconcerting as a howling pack of wolves in close proximity to one's camp, food cooking and no gun at hand. :(
Well, I suppose a grizzley or Alaska brown would be worse.
i get high on milk because my cows are on grass :D
milk life... is the dumbest ad campaign ;)
Quote from: chain on February 02, 2014, 07:40:47 AM
Something of interest if you have a Missouri connection is in the February issue of "Misssouri Conservationist" magazine..a great publication usually. But on page 2 someone sent in a photo of a lower base trunk of a sycamore [does not look sycamore to me but I've been known to be wrong}, the tree nearly 13' in circumference; yet, the photo showing that a beaver has completely girdled the tree and will likely fall in the next wind storm.
The comments, seemingly boastful, of the novelty of having such an apparently "giant ghost beaver" are amusing to me. For one thing, what is the worth of this magnificent tree ? What devotion to dozens of ecological benefits has this tree provided in its lifetime? I've seen hundreds and hundreds of trees damaged and girdled down to waste from , let's say, "over achieving beaver"! ???
So, what's the point? The point is...someone needs to invent a 'girdling post' to save trees! :)
I have searched for this post and cannot figure out how I put it on "cougars in Michigan', sorry. But wanted some to know that I was for once correct, that the tree was NOT a sycamore as stated, the beaver was cutting on a cottonwood. The Editor of the magazine corrected in this month's issue....thanks.
Hope someone's working on that 'girdling post'! :)
Update on the Santa Catalina bighorn reintroduction. Game and Fish has been very quiet for the last several months, but they announced last week that there are 16 surviving sheep. They also report 6 lambs born. I'm guessing that the way they worded it that the 6 are part of the 16 and not in addition to. Usual fun statistical lying technique. They also report one surviving ram, which means that all the babies born will have the same father, creating an inbred population.
Apparently they have too much money, as they are talking about bringing another truckload of lion fuel this fall. ;D
Sometimes reintroductions aren't thought through too well. When they reintroduced marten in Vermont, the fishers got most of them. Oddly enough, the fishers were reintroduced not too may decades before the marten attempt. If they'd reversed the order I think it would have been more successful. Now over 20 years later, the marten are coming in on their own. When caribou were brought back to Maine, brainworm carried by deer got them. If they're going to get a herd of those bighorn established I would suspect they need to do an effective predator control program. Unless they're going to bring in several hundred or thousand animals.