A guy I milled some black walnut for has it stacked, stickered weighted and drying in his basement. He says there is no hurry. Then the other day he says an architect buddy of his said to salt it and it will dry faster.
I have never heard of it have you?
I have a couple of books on air and kiln drying and there is no mention of salt drying.
I asked him not to do it until I atleast got some feedback.
What do you guys think?
Salted black walnut gunstocks were tried by a gun company years ago. The drying process was a success but the corrisive properties of salt on metal caused the project to fail. I am going from memory so you might try a search on Google and see what it turns up.
Before I quit thePower Co. in the 70's, we were using salted poles. They were a natural finish. Don't see them any more. I would be concerned about the boards "sweating" salt, like Larry just posted.
I was reading about a little "hobby woodworker" kiln the other day that was to dry 500 ft or so. Part of the workings of the kiln was a pile of salt in the bottom of the kiln floor that attracted the moisture from the air. that's the first time I had ever heard of putting salt on wood intentionally. I don't know where I saw it but if I find it again I'll post it. :P :-*
Couple of yrs ago by accendent, a bag of sackete broke open & spilled on a end of a cherry board. A few days later I sawed off the end(Cause it had the sackete stuck on it) later that day for some reason I cleaned up that piece of board, with a putty knife. It was as lite as a feather, the piece was a 1by 6, 12 inches long, and it was dry as ever.
EZ
Hoadley explains it in detail in Understand Wood. In an enclosed space salt will control the RH to a specific level, he lists which salts do what RH. Haven't tried it myself, but sounds interesting. (Great book, even talks about portable sawmills) BWW
Salt will dry the wood faster but you will only be able to use stainless steel fastners. You can soak lumber in salt water to preserve it but it leaches out after time. Walnut will dry quick enough if he would just put a box fan on it.
ARKANSAWYER
i've never heard of salting lumber, but on hot humid days in the summer, we salt small square bales with stock salt to dry out the fresh cut hay so we don't burn the barn down-haylofts in old barns don't get much airflow. I would be concerned with having a salt residue on the boards-just look at what road salt does to viehicles
Charles
My father in law asked me one time about something he saw when he was a boy, I couldn't figure it out. He said it was common practice at the local sawmill in Holland to sink the logs in seawater for some time before milling them. :-/
Gee, nobody even said anything about my cement thing. Just goes to show you how important I am. :-[
EZ
Well, dadgummit, EZ, I need to say something about that because I've seen the same thing. It must be the Lime that draws out the water. I've heard that concrete will even destroy the wood in time so maybe it's taking away some of the wood too. ??? :P
I noticed, when I was hauling blocks for my contractor-uncle's block layer, that the 2x10's and 2x12's he used on his scaffolding was lighter than the general, run-of-the-mill board. It wasn't until I scraped all the mortar off that I noticed it though. As I put his scaffold boards on the truck, I would wish that all the wood I had handled was that light. :D
I hate it when my posts get skipped over too, sometimes. :'( It's a terrible thing to be ignored. :'( :'(
Why do you guys seem to feel you are ignored when somebody does not answer a post directly? It happens to me all the time. I don't feel ignored, I feel that its because its hard to add to perfection.
Because we're so lonely and insecure. It's a failing of self-esteem as well as an acute consideration of the effort lost "spittin' into the wind". :) ::)
Some folks got it all :D
Well truthfully it just kinda bums me out because it takes me so long to type this stuff. ;D I type about 5 words a minute. :-/ But any ways, thanks guys.
Tom, very interesting about the concrete eating away the wood.
EZ
I was told once that that (double word sentence :D ) was one of the reasons you don't sink posts directly into concrete too. Now I'm not one to know because it probably takes more than one lifetime to see it happen, but the chemicals in concrete (basically alkali's ;D :D ) deteriorate the wood and if you seal the bottom of the hole then water stands inside of the wood and promotes rot.
Might be an old wive's tale even though we have talked about it before once somewhere here. That was a pretty interesting thread as i remember. Perhaps I'll go look it up again. I like reading that old stuff sometimes.
EZ,
I read every post that is made on the forum and appreciate almost every one. I don't respond to many because I just don't have any experience or opinions on the topic-----such as yours.
It takes me a long tome to answer a post and sometimes I just don't have enough time.
I bummed myself out over and over on another forum thread. The topic was a little contiversial and I was a little pithed. I wrote out a long reply, proofread it and deleted it. I did this every time I read the thread for three or four times. Boy those French Guys pith me off.
Noble
Sometimes, I answer a post just because I think it deserves an acknowledgement, even if I don't really have anything to contribute. It does kinda get your goat to say something you think is really profound, only to have it draw no attention, at all. I really hate to see a new thread started by a new guy, which may have pretty good content, but has 47 reads and NO responses. It must make him think he ain't gettin' out, or that this is some sort of exclusive clique, or something.
I'm about to start a new thread, now, so y'all better respond, or I'm gonna :'(
Wow! What a segue to a conversation about being worth your salt. :D :D
I have to stay away from some of the political stuff going on today because I am so deeply patriotic that I would be a force to deal with if there were a face to face confrontation with some of the crowd wiggling in the streets today. On top of that, I type too fast and it's easier to get into a fight than if I had to peck at the keyboard.
I asked the salted wood question on a woodworking board to see if there would be any difference of opinion or new ideas. They came up with the same salted walnut gunstock story and the idea that maybe it was being used as a dessicant but there isn't much out there on this subject. :P
Do it Dang, I'll say something. 8) :D
And here I was thinking that there was going to be an interesting conclusion to this thread concerning salt and it turns out that it's still only good for two things: Salting the roads and having it on your eggs for breakfast.
Yawnnnn.......it's 1 am and my roof doesn't leak as I replaced it today and now I have to steam clean the carpets........I soooooo need a day off!
Steve
Steve,
MEEEEEEEEE TOOOOOOOOOO
So, today is the day. My son and I takeing the day off to go watch the Kansas 1A State Basketball finals. We will see four games today. Third and fourth boys and girls and of course the two championship games.
Work will still be there to do Monday.
:)
Taking a day off to spend time with your child is a good thing! Work can always wait when it comes to kids! :)
Steve
Hey Nobel and Tom, if anything I said on that other thread makes your pith rot send me an IM. I've got real thick skin and I don't take a difference of opinion as a personal assault as long as there is some thought given to the response. I know that would not be a problem with you two. If you agree with some of what I stated I would like to know that too.
OWW,
I'm not pithed at you.
It would be nice if we could just be nice with terrorists and try to reason with them and hope everything would turn out allright.
We do have a common religious background with the Muslims--------------until they chose Mohammed and we chose Jesus. Jesus teaches us to love our brothers. Mohammedtaught them to love their brothers and to kill infidels.
The rub comes in that too many of them view us not as brothers but as infidels. Doesn't make it very easy to reason with them.
Noble
Your comments didn't overly excite me and I think a person is due his own opinion.
I think there are a lot of misguided individuals who are against United States Policy and that is unfortunate. I especially think it is unfortunate that we are losing the trait of Patriotism to a bunch of joiners who think it is "smart" to oppose their country at every turn. Patriotism has been a failing trait since flower children of the '60's thought "Make Love not War" meant that there were no "bad" people in the world. There have been a lot of soldiers (brothers and sons) give their lives so these wimps didn't have to do anything or except the responsibility for their freedom..
Noble,
Islamic religions do not preach hate any more than Christain religions do. It is the misguided in both religions that misinterpret the word for their own means that preach hatred. The one thing that runs common in all the major religions is respect for one another. Unfortunately this is lost in the rhetoric of the fanatics of all religions. In my experience the people who are the hardest to reason with are those who will not listen objectively; unfortunately that encompasses 90% of the human race.
Tom,
I feel I am very much a patriotic person. Part of what the founding fathers based their beliefs on was a good questioning of authority. I do not take issue with everything that comes out of Washington, only those things that go against the principles this country was founded on.
I respect both yours and Noble's opinions. I have much respect for both or you. Our difference of opinion on this issue will not lessen that respect.
Nuff said. Let's talk about tree stuff from here on out. :)
Tom,
You are right.
Robert,
we aren't at war with the Islamic people, but terrorists who think that they will get an eternal reward for killing infidels. I wish a TREE would fall on them. :D
I'm not gonna say any more--------but i'll be thinkin it.
Noble
Hey Tom I like the last few sentences that you wrote and I totally agree with you. There's always a minority of lazy ass people that sit on the corner and bitch and complain and think that they know every dam thing. Make love not war doesn't cut it when your the #1 in the world and sometimes the #1 has to kick some butt to prove that.
I hate war and I wish there was a better way, I also hate the fact that those b****** flew those planes into the towers.
I think that if America wants to stay in control then they better go in in a blaze of glory and kick some ass and wipe those idiots off the map. I hate to have to say that but I think it' the only way to do it.
You guys are my neighbors and I know that if the States are safe then I'm safe.
If this war happens I hope that all the soldiers come back in one piece and our kids have parents to look up to and to lead them through life.
Steve
I think the salt causes a concentration gradient to be formed. In the process of diffusion, flow occurs from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration, just like pressure. In this case there is a lot of water in the wood (high concentration) and no water in the salt (low concentration). The water moves out of the wood trying to create an equilibrium.
You can see how this works by sticking some celery in some strong salt water. After a short while it will become limp because the water moves out of the celery into the salty water. Putting celery in distilled water will force water into the celery and make it crisp.
Although I haven't tried it you could probably use a lot of different dry things to bring about a similar effect. Might try using some kitty litter or floor-dry.
Mark
Mark,
This is true and you remember your chemistry well. But unlike kitty litter the salt holds the moisture at the serface of the board that keeps the face from checking.
Storeing logs in salt water was a way of old to cure and protect them but they did not use iron fastners. The salt will enter in the wood.
Now some rock salt in a 12ga. might get some terroriest to re-think his vew of the world.
ARKANSAWYER
Check out this pdf link page 65 for a description to "Chemical Seasoning" with salt. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/usda/ah528.pdf
I also found about the same information in "The Conversion & Seasoning of Wood" by William H. Brown. The only additional information was on how to apply it. "Treatment is carried out on green timber, either by immersing the wood in a warm, saturated solution of salt in water, or by dry spreading the salt on the surfaces of the boards as they fall from the saw, close piling the wood allow the chemical to diffuse into the surfaces for a day or two."
Third source (usually the most accurate) was the old timer down the road from me. He said him and his Dad tried salting some big oak timbers about 30 or 40 years ago to reduce surface checking and cracks and had some success with the method.
I might try salting some oak fireplace mantles next time I cut them to see what happens but sure can't see any reason to salt walnut.
I have a cedar bench on the front porch, and I spilt some salt on it earlier in the winter while cleaning the porch, Ilooked at it today, and around the salt pellets was a wet spot, is this the moisture pulling out of the boards and "pooling" around the salt?
Sawyerkirk,
From my little bit of research I think you are quessing right about the pooling of the water on your cedar bench. The way I understand it this keeps the surface from checking but on timbers it can pull to much water and cause internal checks.
Sounds like Arkie has some experience with salting wood so if we are wrong maybe he will straighten us out.