Scaling a 100 foot red oak

[Okrafarmer]

At least you are able to look in the crack and you don't see any rot in there, so that is a good sign. Having said that, the crack will eliminate a certain amount of lumber value from the tree, in the most valuable log. If it's a good clean, straight-line crack, though, you should be able to minimize its affect. With a crane, you have the added bonus of the fact that the pieces come down one at a time with less damage from impact. If possible, have the tree service cut the logs to the desired length with the crane picking each log off one at a time. Or give the tree cutter a maximum length and a minimum length you want, and let him use his judgment as to where to cut them, he may be more happy with that.

Somewhere on the forum, there was a thread about a guy in California who had a redwood taken down in this fashion, complete with pictures.

[ET]

I finally have some time this am to attempt to load a couple of photo's of the tree.  The first one is with my wife standing next to it and then one looking up from the base of the tree.   

  

   I hope they post.  I really appreciate all the help I've received on this project and as things progress I will continue reporting.

Ernie

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

That's a nice size tree. It should yield up a whack of lumber...

Be Careful.

Herb

[Ron Wenrich]

If I was scaling that tree in the woods, I wouldn't scale at more than 2½ logs.  You'll lose some scale due to sweep in the upper log.  Above that, there is limb wood, which you might get a sawlog or so, but from a scaling aspect, I don't count them.  Reason being is a lot of times they come down and break on the felling. 

Urban forestry is a bit different, but the lumber in the limb wood isn't nearly as good as that in the bole.

[beenthere]

Ernie
Still not hearing what your commitment is with this tree, if anything.

Are you free and clear of any obligation to pay into the falling expense?

I only ask, as I agree with the message Ron was sending. In addition, although the pics are very small for some reason, the bowl of the tree looks loaded with surface indicators of low quality wood under the bark.

Your obligation would be important to advice given, so you don't end up holding an empty bag (or worse). ;)

[ET]

I selected "Medium" when I downloaded the pics from my phone to my e-mail account.  Next time I'll select "large" and see what happens.  I just did not want to blow something up.  I guess the modern computers and servers can handle larger files now.  Hurricane Sandy went through the Cleveland area bad and my daughters neighbor had alot of tree damage.  Their discussion with them about me resulted in getting involved and my interest in cutting this big red is only because I haven't sawn one this big yet.  I have not guaranteed anything; regardless if I get to saw this or not, it certainly has to come down.  That area lost dozens of these giants.
Ernie

[Magicman]

All of the logs should have tension issues due the the unbalanced top.  Opening the wrong face or sawing the cant through from the wrong face could result in some unstable lumber.

[ET]

Magician,
Definitely one of my original questions. With the lean, especially the upper portion, the compression and tension is certain. The lower section appears to have grown under vertical condition and later on developed the lean. Using my swing mill I do not have the ability to easily move a decent size log once its placed in the bunks. Looking at the growth rings tells a lot but I could use some direction on opening up a log if the rings are not in symmetry.
Ernie

[Magicman]

I would saw parallel to either the hump or horn side.  The lumber will then have a tendency to bow but not crook.  Sticker stacking and drying should take care of the bow.

[learner]

I can't seem to find what the hump or horn side means.  Magic could you explain this to me?  In construction terms I'm thinking you mean the crown side up, meaning the curved side of the log up.  But you say parallel.  So do you mean laying the log down on the mill so that the hump and horns are horizontal?

[Magicman]

Either the hump (crown) up or hump down.  Since the OP has a swingmill, he could easily saw with the blade vertical.  I meant with the blade in the horizontal position. 

With my bandmill, the hump or horn side would be up and I would saw the cant.

[fishpharmer]

Quoting website
http://www.tomssaw.com/cgi-bin/tutorials/viewnews.cgi?newsid1120951840,74828

of our dear friend (RIP) Tom..........

"Cutting sweeps:

A log with a sweep(bend) will provide more usable lumber if the boards are removed in the direction of the sweep, either off of the hump or the saddle.

Turn the log on its ears and take a slab off of the hump.
Turn it on its side and take a slab
Turn it on its flattened hump and remove the ears
Turn it on its last side and cut a slab
Turn the cant again and cut boards from the hump side and the ears side.

You will notice that the boards will come off with the tension lifting them. Nails will hold them down.

If you cut from the sides of the cant, then the boards will bend to the side causing a tremendous amount of "crown" and a board that can't be easily pulled into place.
This phenomenon is experienced in quarter sawing and must be delt with there."

[Okrafarmer]

If you are sawing the way Magicman and Fishfarmer recommended, it will work well. You may find it helps to mill thin lumber (4/4, for instance) if you are using that method. The thinner lumber will be easier to bend into shape, both for drying, and also after it is dry. (Compared to thicker lumber, like 8/4, milled from the same log).

There is another way to do it, and that is to lay the log down on its side (that is to say, lay the hump and ears on their side, so that the log is resting on its "side" like a banana would if you set it on a flat surface.) For this method, I would recommend short logs rather than long (8 ft. or so would be good) to minimize the effect of bowing that would be exaggerated in a longer piece. This method would work relatively well for a slabber, and you would cut wide slabs out that would be relatively stable in the horizontal plane, but would be curved sideways somewhat, though they would lie flat. These slightly curved live edge slabs can be used for furniture (table-tops, etc) or they can be cut into smaller pieces when they are dry.

I'm not sure how swing-milling dimension boards would do if you oriented the log on its side as I said. For slabbing, it would definitely work, but not sure about the smaller boards. You might run into too much tension in your vertical cuts.

As for what Ron said about not milling the upper logs from the tree, you may choose not to mill them, either due to the tension, or due to excessive knots and other defects, but  one thing he mentioned about how those logs would not be counted in a forestry-raised tree does not apply. He said (rightly so) that when a tree like that is cut down, the upper portions are usually damaged too much to mill up. But if a crane takes this tree down piece by piece, you shouldn't have to worry about that.

[Ron Wenrich]

If bucked right, that hump won't be much of a problem in the log. 

[ET]

 
Like I have mentioned many times; THANKS! to everyone that has participated in assisting in this project.  Its getting so large that I'm going to have to go back and re-read everything and take notes of those important or usable bits of information so I can actually take advantage of this knowledge base.  On a side note I spent the entire day at an auction and bought a pair of 19" log tongs, a choker cable, a spool of 3/8" wire rope, and woohoo a Ford 555B backhoe.  I could start a new post but would be interested to know if any members also have this model.

Ernie

[WmFritz]

We need pictures or can't believe you REALLY scored that backhoe :D :D

Congratulations by the way.

[thecfarm]

You might get more replys if you started a "Ford 555B backhoe" Seem like I heard Al call them a triple nickle. I guess he knows about them.

[Okrafarmer]

You might get more replys if you started a "Ford 555B backhoe" Seem like I heard Al call them a triple nickle. I guess he knows about them.

I call them the "directory assistance backhoe." Never had one. Town where I grew up had one on the payroll when I was a kid, not sure if it was a B or a later model. That backhoe was involved in more work than just about any vehicle in town. They used it hard.

[ET]

I have not check yet about which forum I would start a new thread about the 555B (photo attached).  I've been needing something like this for quite awhile around the farm, especially for moving those BBIIGG logs!  My little JD Compact can only pick-up around 600 lbs but can drag a thousand or better; anyway I'll hold off on questions until I hear where I can appropriately post. 
Ernie

 

[thecfarm]

General Board should be fine. There is a member that put a grapple on his backhoe.

[Lud]

Nice  buy on the backhoe.  What county are you in?  Northern Ohio is pretty big.  I'm in Medina County.  Good to have another Ohioan on board. 8)

[Magicman]

That is a fine looking machine.  Handling logs with a backhoe works very well because the weight on the rear acts as a good counterweight.   ;D

[ET]

Hi Lud, I'm from Sandusky County.  I just now got the 555 home from the auction site. Raining cats and dogs and wow what an ordeal. I found the general board and will start a new thread. I'm really interested in using it for log handling as well as for what it's intended for too. I just had my old 108 foot long bank barn torn down by a barn reclamation company but now I need to move tons of rocks, boulders, and hundreds of yards of dirt to make way for a new barn; reason for getting the hoe.

[learner]

General Board should be fine. There is a member that put a grapple on his backhoe.

:D It's funny you should say that.  We just picked up a used prentice grapple that we're thinking about putting on our other backhoe.  This poor gal is about ready for retirement.



 

[Okrafarmer]

I had a neighbor who put a grapple on a backhoe up in Maine in the '80s. He was a firewood logger, and used it load split firewood into his dump truck to deliver.