The Right to Self Defense

[Patty]

I don't know how many of you have read this article: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162325,00.html

I found it very interesting. First of all I had not realized that we citizens do not have the right to police protection. Just exactly what we pay police to do, I am not sure of. Norm thought it was to hand out speeding tickets.  ;D
More importantly though, it reinforces what most of us sense: that we must maintain our right to defend ourselves. When anti-gun lobbiests start babbling about restrictive gun laws you might ask them just what is a person supposed to do to protect himself, since it is NOT the policemen's duty to do so.

As I head out this afternoon to pick up my new gun permit, this gives me plenty to think about on the drive to the sherriff's office.

[crtreedude]

Honestly - I think things have to be kept as close to the local neighborhood as possible. For example here in Ciudad Quesada we don't have gangs. Okay, we did for a very brief time until the local men (before I was here) got together and thrashed the local juvenile deliquents with in an inch of their lives.

The juveniles didn't fight back much - would you against a person with a machete on his waist? 

No more problem. We have a good police system here in Ciudad Quesada - but we have bars on the doors and windows - almost everyone does. Why? To protect against petty theft. Better than paying for police to patrol all the time.

On the finca, we keep people there all the time - and since they are choperos they have 2 1/2 foot machetes - we don't have problems from the occassional nar-do-well.

Costa Rica doesn't have an Army - if someone tries to invade - there is no trouble fighting back. Doesn't work for every country but the biggest danger in most latin American countries IS the army. Costa Rica has universal health care and good education. Seems like a decent trade off.

The problem that I see is that politicians promise something that cannot be delivered, and eventually the courts point it out. No one can protect you, except yourself - so you need the right and hopefully the knowledge to defend yourself. Unfortunately the politicians don't like the idea of you being able to defend yourself - you just might do it against them. As the ole saying goes, "Don't steal, the government doesn't like competition..."

just my dos colones

[Buzz-sawyer]

Patty
In Missouri, a recent conceal carry initiative passed.....Many St Luois area minicipalities refused to comply at thr requst of thier police chiefs.
Eventually they were forced to carry out the law!
They screamed bloody murder about how much harm allowing honest citizens to carry guns w/o being criminals in the process.
That has been a year or more.NOT ONE incident has occured to my knowledge to justiff thier fears!!!

[crtreedude]

Buzz-Sawyer,

But what about the poor criminals who have no clue on who it is safe to rob anymore?!  :D

[shopteacher]

It's a shame that in this day and age we even have to be concerned about protecting ourselves.  That being said, I think it's worse than ever.  It's seems to be part of the nightly news that someone was shot in Pittsburgh last night.  I swear that for the past week there has been a shooting every night there.  The suburbs aren't much better and the highway may even be more dangerous from road rage then from DUI's.  So I'm with you Patty I also will keep my concealed weapons permit up to date.

[Murf]

It's even worse than that on this side of the border, we're not allowed guns to defend ourselves either.  

In fact the use of a legitimate hunting rifle in self defence would result in charges also, since the law requires that they be stored, in a locked area or container, unloaded, and with the ammunition in a seprate locked container or area, loading and using the gun can't be done without some time and intention, not in a split second, so they consider it premeditated.  >:(

Course anybody tryin' ta come in who wasn't supposed to would be a gelding before the dogs was done with 'em.  :D

An even if they get arrested Deputy Dog and his faithfull sidekick The Life Of Riley aren't gonna say a word about me training them.  ;)

[Ernie]

I'd love to have one of these.

http://metalstorm.com/04_the_technology.html

[Norm]

The local sheriffs offices around here vary on how they interpret the law. Patty bought me a new glock 10mm for my birthday, here handgun permit had expired so she went down to the office to renew. Should take 3-5 days to get one tops, two weeks latter they call to tell her that the address on her license is different than her address she used on the form. Patty says what's the difference we have a residence at both address'. With attitude they tell her to go get her license updated with the address on the form. Piths me off to have to go through this stuff to begin with.

[caryr]

"To Serve and Protect" is just a slogan. The only true duty of the police is law enforcement. Here is a good general information link on self defense (http://www.tkdtutor.com/07Defense/Laws.htm).

Cary

[GF]

Oklahoma has a law that you have a right to carry a concealed weapon as long as you have a permit.  Oklahoma also has the Make My Day Law the purpose of the law is to protect the victim of crime who defends his home and his family against unlawful intrusion from any criminal prosecution or civil action.

I have seen on the news numerous time burglars being shot by home owners and the home owner not getting a single charge against them.

[moosehunter]

Here in New York, the "anti gun" capital of the free world, it took me 5 weeks to get a "coupon" to pick up my new Kimber Target gun. Jeeze, I just wanna shoot at some tin cans :, I would'nt think of using it to protect myself and family from the dregs of the earth that would prey on unarmed citizens ;)
mh

[sprucebunny]

Thanks for reminding me to check my permit to carry..... it expired last month  :

I believe in NH you can carry a gun on your hip and only need the permit to carry concealed. They might have changed that ,though.

Live free or die. ;D

[Norm]

My birthday present that Patty got me. For some reason traveling salemen avoid our place...must be the target pratice. ;D

[Patty]

Target practice on traveling salesmen....reminds me of the movie "Secondhand Lion"...great flick.


Nice gun, huh?  ;D

[crtreedude]

And this is why I don't have to deal with sales people down on the finca...  :D  Snakes don't bother me much either.

[Rockn H]

I've been wondering the last few days along the lines of gun control.  More exactly I've been wondering about the poor Groene family.  Where Joseph Duncan III watched the family through night vision glasses for 2 or 3 nights, before he kidnapped Shasta and her brother Duncan.  I've been wondering, if there had been guns in the house, if he would have even bothered or just moved on.  Would he have been able to tie up and beat to death, their older brother, mother , and her boy friend.    :'(

[maple flats]

Don't just talk about it, join the NRA and be part of the solution. They are the best hope we have to keep the second ammendment and with it the ability to defend ourselves and our family from the criminal element, drug taking, houdlems who would kill you for a dollar just to support their drug habbit.
Another good but smaller orginizations are the Second Amendment Foundation and The Citizens Committee For the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Join one, join all, help us counter the liberals who think we should be victums.
The original intent of the Second Amendment was for defending your self against tyrants in government as is clearly seen by reading the Federalist papers, which was a forum much like our own about the ideals of governing our newly freed nation, just before computers.

[Larry]

Good thread Patty...don't forget our young people.  I do quite a bit of coaching, counseling, and training for the kids.  Lot of the city bound kids are pretty sheltered.

On the picnic table range with a young un.

[sprucebunny]

That is a beautiful gun, Patty ;D

That article is scary . I'll be rejoining the NRA or maybe something that sends less mail  :

[Lenny_M]

Sprucebunny
Your right about N.H. hand gun laws. No permit to carry needed unless in a motor vehicle loaded or consealed.
The only places you can`t carry is Schools.Courts or FEDRAL BUILDINGS??? If they are elected and working for us, Why are they afraid of us???
My son(then 12 with 357mag)shot a dog in our yard that was attackng our animals(Heffer.goat,horses ect)Cops come cked thangs out No problem.  Took dog owner to court for payment of vet bills, No problem.The ony thang the judge would`t give us was the cost of the bullet Was told there is no age limits on carying a hand gun in N.H. in the open. No adults were home at the time of the shooting. That was the big issue of the dog owner.
The law reads you must be 21 to buy a handgun, ammo that will fit a handgun (22 cal included) or get a carry permit for handguns.
  Never did get any money for the vet bills, the lady moved to Montana, Maybe saving the varmits or hugging a tree, Could even be camping out in a tree :D. She fit the profile
   There is a warrent for he arrest in N.H.   The state will not cross the line for a civil case >:( >:( >:(                                      Lenny

[Bibbyman]

Speaking of movies,  anyone remember "Schindler's List".  I found the movie very disturbing and don't care to watch it again.  There was one scene that for me,  told it all.  Near the end of the movie all the adult Jews were herded into a gas chamber for what they thought was going to be their final end - one lady that had been passive all the time said. "I always thought .. if we gave them what they wanted we'd be all right." 

Ironic that Spielberg could make a moved that documented the dangers of socialism so well and still be such a liberal.

[MemphisLogger]

Join one, join all, help us counter the liberals who think we should be victums.

Hey, as a Blackhawk toting liberal who regularly confronts the criminal element in my town in the absence of "police protection", I think we should remember where the word liberal comes from  ;)

[Flurida_BlackCreek]

   There is a warrent for he arrest in N.H.   The state will not cross the line for a civil case >:( >:( >:(                                      Lenny

Lenny,

What is the warrant for her arrest for?

Norm, Patty,

Nice Glock!

[Shotgun]

Quote from Patty, "More importantly though, it reinforces what most of us sense: that we must maintain our right to defend ourselves. When anti-gun lobbiests start babbling about restrictive gun laws you might ask them just what is a person supposed to do to protect himself, since it is NOT the policemen's duty to do so."

You're alright Patty. And it was a DanG nice birthday gift for Norm.

Michigan has a fairly new (4 years) CCW law and there are now 120,000 plus people with permits to carry out there somewhere.  And no blood running in the streets. The bad guys surely think twice before doing their thing. I know where one of the permits is, and it's always with me.

Sure glad to see the support on this forum.

Norm (The Other Norm)

[Dan_Shade]

i find gun laws quite frustrating.

Gun laws truly don't work.  D.C. is a perfect example, handguns are illegal there or something like that, very hard to get, etc.  Yet, there are LOTS of murders up there.  the real problem is that we dont' purge society of lowlifes. I guess the definition of "lowlife" can be debated.

I find it quite disturbing that in order for me to use lethal force upon someone in my house at 3am, they have to be threatening me.

I'm guessing you're pretty rare as a "gun-toting liberal", Scott

on the other side of that, I live very close to the area that the "sniper killings" happened a few years ago, where that nutcase was killing people at gas stations.  when wacks like that have guns, it's scary, but i'm more comfortable with myself being able to own guns too.  it scares me more that I can't legally carry a gun in the console of my vehicle.  I remember the morning when they were advising on the radio to be aware that a convict was loose in our area, and to be considered armed and dangerous, and that he had carjacked previously....  having a loaded weapon would have made me a bit more confident on my way to work that morning....