Charging for extra services.

[Bibbyman]

We try to keep our custom sawing rates simple.  Some jobs are easier than others but it about all equals out.

But yesterday I had to do quite a bit of trimming on an ash log a customer brought in and I've about had enough of doing this for free.  The top cut log was only rough trimmed.  I'd say it was something a power line crew had to take out so all they did was lop the limbs off about a 1' out – most were 6-8" in diameter.  To top it off,  the log was junk anyway and the customer wanted us to saw a 6x6 out of it for a corner post.  Just goes to show how much he knows.

Anyway,  I told Mary to have a sign made up and bolted to the sawmill wall saying there would be a $1.00 extra charge for EVERY knot, bump, butt swell, or bucking that had to be done.  While she was at it, add that there will be a double charge for logs shorter than 8' and trim or 10" diameter and smaller or with excessive sweep.

I must say, about half the farmers do a pretty good job of trimming their logs.(Usually the old ones.)  Some do OK. But we get some that bring in junk to tree length and expect me to trim and buck them.  Some even bring in all kinds of things just to have half of it sawn and the rest I can just store for them in case they want it sawn later.  Most of the loggers we buy from don't do the best job of trimming and bucking either. None do a good job.

I've flat told some of the customers they need to do a better job of trimming.  At lest one snickered "That's what they make sawmills for."   If he hadn't been a neighbor and related to relations,  I would have told him he needed to figure on how he was going to load the logs back on his trailer because I wasn't sawing them and wasn't going to help him load them back up.  But I didn't.

I ain't got time to do this for free.  How about y-all?

[james]

hand em an old saw and point toward the log ? ;D ;D

[Rod]

Maybe you could raise the price of sawing to cover the cost of all the free work.

[Tracy]

I've had somepeople do me that way. Limbs cut several inches away from the log or whole tree lenght logs that have to be cut to the desierd length. Just cut and stack them as you go they say. How about $45 and hour till its ready to be milled I say. It changes thier mind or I don't do it. Seems some think you owe them a bonus of doing this for them in order to cut thier logs up.

[Brian_Bailey]

Bibby,

I know how you feel on those profit eat'n logs that somehow find their way to the mill.

I generally charge by the bf for sawing.

Extra services such as you have described are billed at an hourly rate. The hour is broken up into quarters ( 15 mins. ) and that is how I charge for each extra service.

Most folks are ok with the extra charge(s) when the reason is explained to them.
The one's that aren't, don't come back .

That's how I deal with it.

[Frank_Pender]

Yep, I am with you, Tom.  I finally arrived at the same feeling a year ago.  I have included the bucking of logs into the milling price, as many of my logs come in lengths of 24' to 42' Douglas Fir.  I do not a knot or two once in a while, but a whole log looking like a trimmed porkypine is another story.  I also charge a dollar a staub for trimming.  I also charge extra for logs that have been down for quite some time, as the bark falling off everywhere makes for much more of a mess.  I add 20% to the whole bill and know it in advance.  If they whince they are told they can come and clean up the mess as well as haul it away at the same time.   Their disposition changes real quick.

[Captain]

I'm with Brian.

I charge by the BF volume, no deductions for sweep or degrade.

Everything else is $50/hr including but not limited to:
limbing
trimming butt swell
power washing
removing metal

Captain

[dewwood]

I charge by the hour and that helps eliminate what you are talking about.  There are times when charging by the board foot would have made more money for me but it is usually because the owner has the logs well prepared and some support equipment or other labor to help.

If I am sawing a lot of logs for one customer like a logger or someone like that then I will saw by the board foot if they want me to.

Obviously you have to be able to produce when you charge by the hour, the rate is reflected by how much you can produce in an hour.  Your mill would be worth quite a bit more per hour than an all manual mill.

[Plowboy]

Bibby, I just ran into the same thing the other day.  I got my first custom job.  The customer seemed to have a lot of little extras that he wanted done, besides sawing his logs.  I told the guy I charge by the hour, so when his little extras that he wanted done he got charged $35 an hour.  I think all my future jobs are going to be by the hour.

[neslrite]

Bibby,
   I am with Dewwood I charge strickly by the hour, and in three years of custom sawing I have only lost one job to a parttimer who was willing to saw for $.10/bf.
   I have had some customers ask me to do some interesting thing, I have had to trim branchs, buckup whole trees, turn all the slabs into fire wood, and I had one guy that paid me to sweep all the saw dust from his driveway and haul it away.
   I figure the cost to my customer to be between $.15/bf for the guy who has support equipment, good help and knows how to use his chainsaw and $.75/bf for the residential guy who had a tree service leave the big oak in the front yard where it lay. When the home owner starts pulling off 18inch wide clear oak boards, $.75/bf seems like a bargain to him.
Neslrite

[Brian_Bailey]

I tried, "charge by the hour", for awhile.
I didn't like the feeling of being rushed because I was on the clock.
I'm way too laid back to be a go-getter, so I went back to, "by the bf " and much happier for it  .

Neslrite brings up a sore ( kinda ) subject with me.  

I've been sawing for quite some time (20+ yrs.) and feel I have a pretty good handle on what I'm doing.
It really irks me when I have to compete price wise with someone that just bought a mill and is beginning to learn the ropes or just doing it for fun. Just ain't right, I say  .

 

[FeltzE]

I charge both ways by the foot and by the hour, Most larger jobs are by the foot with a surcharge for tramp metal dirty logs excess trimming etc. Small or irregular jobs are by the hour with a minimum of $50 or $100 just to take the job.

Most people wouldn't think twice to pay a plumber $75 to show up and conduct less than an hours work, We show up with $30k worth of equipment and they want cheep?.... mmmm....Not  

Some times I think we try too hard to save the customer some money by being thrifty on sawing reclamed timber vs. retail stock and we forget we have a considerable investment of time, education, and capital.

Eric

[Bibbyman]

Brian,  you shouldn't let the new guys irk you.  Twenty years ago you probably irked someone yourself.  It was 10 years ago for me.  He's been gone for some time and two others have started up since we started and only lasted a couple of years.  

The one that took it up as a hobby found out it was work. Besides, he had an "elbow problem" – every time he had a beer can in his hand,  his elbow bent. :D

[MemphisLogger]

Bibbyman,

That's why we charge by the hour :D

When I first talk to the customer, I let him/her know that a pile of 9' logs better than 15" and under 32" that are lying in line to roll up on the mill will get'em lumber for 30-40 cents a foot.

I am emphatic that draggin', buckin', trimmin' or sawin' shorts will put the price up to 50-60 cents.

Morte often than not, due to laziness or whatnot, they end up having us saw all kinda crap  :(

Anyway, we still make our $60 an hour  8)  

[Brian_Bailey]

Bibby,  

You read my post wrong or maybe I didn't say it right.

The new guys or gals don't irk me, in fact, I wished that they would contact me because I would be more than happy to help them get started, I'm not bitter about competition.

What I meant was, I have over 75 grand invested into equipment and 20+ yrs of experience sawing.  It just irks me that in order to stay busy custom sawing, I have to lower my price.
I quess that is why I chase the specialty markets rather than compete custom sawing  .

Last week I was invited to a wood turning demo. put on by a local wood turning club.
They featured a guest turner ( Chris Stotts ) that has been touring the country putting on demo's showing how he turns small wooden boxes. He took a piece of wood approx. 2.5" x 2.5" x 8"  and in approx. 20 mins. literally turned it into a lidded box that he gets $75 for. I was impressed  .

The point of this story is, while at the demo I met a member there that has a mill and is just learning. I enjoyed our conversation and I hope that he will contact me, I also told him about this great forum.

[Bibbyman]

Yea,  I too help anyone in my area I can get started and keep in contact with them.  I've sent them customers when it made more sense or something they could better handle or at their back door.

I'd like to send some of the customers we have to someone new - like the guys that don't trim their logs or keep them clean, etc..

[ElectricAl]

Brian,

You are so right about the portable guy with a 20k sawmill charging the same as a stationary guy with over 200k invested.

Who is really making more money?
 

Bib, a buck per minute ;)

Easy to calculate ;D

[Frickman]

Back when I still custom-sawed I charged by the board foot for sawing, International log scale. Everything else like you guys have mentioned was $60.00/hour. I told them that the sawing charge was for sawing only. At $60.00/hour you'd be suprised how nice a job they do on logs.

Not to get off the topic, but we do kind of the same thing on the farm. We sell alot of hay to animal owners, mostly for horses. We prefer for the customers to purchase the hay in the field the day we're baling, right off the wagon. I tell them that I'm in business to bale hay, not handle and store it. We do sell hay out of the barn over winter, but they pay us generously for our efforts. If they don't have a barn to store it in, I'll gladly saw one out for them. We try to be full service that way.