Weak TIMBCO

Firewoodjoe · July 18, 2022, 12:44:04 PM

What would make my hydarulics get very weak from time to time. It's intermittent day to day. All hydraulics. Some days it's almost frustrating to even run especially on hills. Other days you swear your going to break something it's scary fast/powerful. It's has a lot of valves and horsepower limiters and such in the hydraulic schismatic. Not sure where to even start. I was going with the it will eventually get worse and easier to find method lol Also sometimes when I should it down warm to change and bar or chain it wil start right up but no pilot controls/functions of any kind. You have to shut it back off wait a few minutes and try again. Like something is stuck. I'm not sure if it's all the same problem. Just wonder if anyone has had a track machine with similar problems.

Firewoodjoe · July 18, 2022, 04:19:34 PM

Well I was expecting today. Side hill boom out swing lever to the right. Wouldn't swing up hill. Just sat there. While holding it I hit other functions and it would start to swing. Then I backed up and blew, what hope to be a hose, next to the main valve stack. I just got it off the hill and left. It's all so hot I couldn't get in there to look. 🙄

BargeMonkey · July 18, 2022, 05:31:17 PM

🤦‍♂️ I know how those days go. Mines getting slow putting the stick out with a tree, I'm hoping it's just in the valve bank.

barbender · July 18, 2022, 05:48:16 PM

It's just trying to give you a little extra time to count all of your $$$, Barge!😁

BargeMonkey · July 18, 2022, 06:02:01 PM

Quote from: barbender on July 18, 2022, 05:48:16 PM
It's just trying to give you a little extra time to count all of your $$$, Barge!😁

I burned that payment book in 2012, has 5700 hrs right now on it, other than a water pump and 1 final she's been a very faithful machine. Looking for an 822-830C leveler at somepoint.

Firewoodjoe · July 18, 2022, 06:22:21 PM

I'm so ready to just trade this old stuff in and get a fast 8 wheel forwarder and a leveler harvester of some kind but man I'm slowly getting some where with this old stuff. I hate to go neck deep in payments. But man it gets old wrenching. At least maybe it would be nice wrenching on something clean and shiny lol

BargeMonkey · July 18, 2022, 06:30:49 PM

Joe after the week I've had with my mechanic I'm ready to go sign my name at CJs for new iron and watch the guy starve to death this winter, about how I feel about turning wrenches anymore.

Firewoodjoe · July 18, 2022, 06:46:10 PM

😂 well new stuff breaks to. Talk to a guy last week with a 2021 and it was down. Part wasnt on the shelf either. I was just looking and not many levelers used right now.

fluidpowerpro · July 18, 2022, 06:54:33 PM

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on July 18, 2022, 04:19:34 PM
Well I was expecting today. Side hill boom out swing lever to the right. Wouldn't swing up hill. Just sat there. While holding it I hit other functions and it would start to swing. Then I backed up and blew, what hope to be a hose, next to the main valve stack. I just got it off the hill and left. It's all so hot I couldn't get in there to look. 🙄

By no means do I know that hydraulic system but with what you describe, its a load sense system.
The swing section on the directional valve has the type of compensator that is set limit the max pressure for that function.
If you operate only the swing, the max pump pressure is only as high as set by valve section.
When you operate multiple sections/functions, now the pump pressure will go to whatever pressure the highest load is requiring.
Now, because your pump is being told by the other section to go to HP, you have enough pressure to move the swing.
I would look at the section compensator in the swing section.
The next place I would look at are the sense checks.
Most load sense valves use a system of small check valves (often called "sense checks") that are used to communicate to the pump the load pressure in each function. When multiple functions are operated at the same time, the highest pressure is the one that gets to the pump control. If any dirt gets in this sense check part of the circuit, it will cause issues.

Firewoodjoe · July 18, 2022, 06:59:04 PM

Wow thanks you. That will require me doing some homework as you sound a bit out of my league lol

fluidpowerpro · July 18, 2022, 07:04:31 PM

Then again, I might be wrong. :D

If you have a hydraulic schematic of the machine I would be glad to take a look.

You can send it to me via my email thats shown in my profile.

Tom Eull

Firewoodjoe · July 18, 2022, 07:28:05 PM

Ok. I'm looking at my book. It is load sense and has the load sense block on the side of the pump. Which also has a horsepower limiter on the same block. The trouble shooting section says it's the load sense, the horsepower limiter, the sytem safety relief valve is stuck or the main pump is junk. So I need to get the leak fixed then pull the filters so that's out of the way. Then what? Pull the load sense and be sure it's clean or sticking?

Corley5 · July 18, 2022, 07:40:31 PM

If you can afford an old harvester, you can afford a new harvester ;)

All these things are why I'm no longer involved in primary harvesting

Firewoodjoe · July 18, 2022, 08:10:14 PM

Quote from: Corley5 on July 18, 2022, 07:40:31 PM
If you can afford an old harvester, you can afford a new harvester ;) All these things are why I'm no longer involved in primary harvesting

I dont believe that for one minute. Not now after owning one. Even down time and parts it don't cost be $3000 a month on the bad months. Price a new one. And they go down to. Then your big money! Yes there's risk with any machine and if your not mechanical at all don't buy a old one. I've never had a mechanic on my job. It's all me or the help of forestry friends. I know new one that's are sitting because there lemons or they can't even get the parts for them. At least this old stuff there's usually salvage/used parts around. It's preference of getting dirty or spending thousands per month in payments.

Firewoodjoe · July 18, 2022, 08:13:02 PM

And this machine is still cutting wood every day. In a year of owning it the longest I was down was 6 days and that's was days past the second worst break down. Also I have hand cutting trees to fell so I save them. I've never lost production. Reminder this has an estimated 36,000 hours. There all junk and there all good.

Corley5 · July 18, 2022, 08:17:27 PM

Lost production plus the cost of repairs adds up to $3,000.00 in a day. Buy new and get in to another one before the warranty is up. I don't buy your argument for a minute either. Been there done that :D

Firewoodjoe · July 18, 2022, 08:36:30 PM

Sorry you had such bad luck. The most expensive part I've bought was $900 for that machine. So production loss was $2100. I wish production logging paid that much. I would have a new machine.

nativewolf · July 18, 2022, 10:35:02 PM

We're just not good mechanics so we like to be in new (with service plans to boot and extra warranty).

Mostly it lets us know almost exactly what our costs will be. We can still tear a couple of hoses on the harvester head (today's joy) but we have a hose kit standing by for that and it took a bit more than an hour to swap those hoses. The costs are quite a bit higher than $3k though, more than 3x that but it is a beast of a machine and so comfortable to ride- luxurious even (seat is amazing, oven, fridge, top shelf radio etc--- yeah I don't get to drive that one)

Joe good luck on the hydraulic situation. Sounds as if fluidpowerpro has some good tips, I have none, just best wishes on getting it cutting again.

fluidpowerpro · July 18, 2022, 11:03:24 PM

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on July 18, 2022, 07:28:05 PM
Ok. I'm looking at my book. It is load sense and has the load sense block on the side of the pump. Which also has a horsepower limiter on the same block. The trouble shooting section says it's the load sense, the horsepower limiter, the sytem safety relief valve is stuck or the main pump is junk. So I need to get the leak fixed then pull the filters so that's out of the way. Then what? Pull the load sense and be sure it's clean or sticking?

Before you tear into anything it would be best to have an idea what to tear into first.
Basic troubleshooting applies to hydraulics just like most other things.
First you need to tell it to do something.
Then verify its receiving the command.
Then verify its acting on the command.

I would be glad to try and help but that works out best using email, text or talk.

Send me a PM and we can share info.

Firewoodjoe · July 19, 2022, 05:39:14 AM

Quote from: nativewolf on July 18, 2022, 10:35:02 PM
We're just not good mechanics so we like to be in new (with service plans to boot and extra warranty).

Mostly it lets us know almost exactly what our costs will be. We can still tear a couple of hoses on the harvester head (today's joy) but we have a hose kit standing by for that and it took a bit more than an hour to swap those hoses. The costs are quite a bit higher than $3k though, more than 3x that but it is a beast of a machine and so comfortable to ride- luxurious even (seat is amazing, oven, fridge, top shelf radio etc--- yeah I don't get to drive that one)

Joe good luck on the hydraulic situation. Sounds as if fluidpowerpro has some good tips, I have none, just best wishes on getting it cutting again.

Oh it will be cutting wood today. It cuts everyday. I'll do all the first steps in maintenance and diagnostics according to the book then go from there on the weak hydraulics. I've already cut and forwarded a weeks worth of wood ahead so I can tear down my forwarder bogies. That's the project that has to get done. But may give me "free" time to diagnose the harvester a little more.

Firewoodjoe · July 19, 2022, 05:49:26 AM

Quote from: nativewolf on July 18, 2022, 10:35:02 PM
The costs are quite a bit higher than $3k though, more than 3x that but it is a beast

Yeah my actually cost with insurance is a lot less than $3k per month if down time and parts aren't included. I could park both my current machines and hand cut with my iron mule and make all the monthly payments. I know what those things cost. They are nice I will say that. You ponsee guys and your "ovens" lol

Firewoodjoe · July 19, 2022, 03:30:13 PM

We'll just a $50 pilot hose blew for the tracks. Cut wood for awhile and blew another hose. Both hoses were old and worn. But is it a coincidence or the pressure gremlin acting up 🤷‍♂️ Just cut wood and keep the fun going in between 😂

teakwood · July 22, 2022, 07:43:46 AM

Hey Joe, i'm impressed by your progress and wish you all the best. Hang in there, you will succeed!

Firewoodjoe · July 22, 2022, 02:21:36 PM

Quote from: teakwood on July 22, 2022, 07:43:46 AM
Hey Joe, i'm impressed by your progress and wish you all the best. Hang in there, you will succeed!

Thank you! You gotta love it or it won't work. I'm getting someplace. Every year I'm better off but a guy just questions his motives sometimes. I'm I a mechanic or a logger lol but unless you keep new under warranty then you have to wrench on something. And I do like every aspect. Even wrenching. Thanks again.