Weak TIMBCO

Log-it-up · July 22, 2022, 11:17:12 PM

With owning older equipment I always thought I was a full time mechanic 🧰 with a logging problem 🤣

BargeMonkey · July 23, 2022, 12:31:13 AM

I still think the reasonably priced iron that you can still half work on is the way to go, even higher hours. The 5yr old stuff that some hours scares me alot more than a 20yr old machine with high hours.

Firewoodjoe · July 23, 2022, 08:27:24 AM

The low hour stuff worries me. I always think why would someone sell something that's barley broke in? Then the ones with 10-15,000 hours are mostly original and will be ready for major parts soon. A lot of ctl guys here won't run a harvester to 10,000 hours for that reason. I actually have good luck buying the high hour stuff. I was told years ago by an old logger that if it made it that long its a good one! 😆 its all a gamble. A new ponsse was down two weeks ago here 🤷‍♂️ I know I personally don't even look at them with 10-15,000 hours. Then there's still things I'd like to have some kind of history on. Engine pumps and bogie bearings. Etc. The problem I have with high hour stuff is a lot of logger shouldn't be allowed to fix stuff lol and chasing the wrong things that aren't even broke just done wrong gets old also. History is a big thing.

barbender · July 23, 2022, 09:42:15 AM

Amen on a lot of loggers shouldn't be allowed to fix stuff! I've seen guys putting hydraulics back together with dirt everywhere, when I tell them that we should clean it up they say, "that's what the filters are for"🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Firewoodjoe · July 23, 2022, 09:58:25 AM

Yeah. I have to remind people all the time. Filters are a false sense of security. It's only on the return side. It has to be pumped through the hole sytem BEFORE it hits the filter. 🤦‍♂️

BargeMonkey · July 23, 2022, 11:08:52 AM

Filters 🤦‍♂️.... mechanic at the dealer decided the O-ring was optional equipment and just sent it anyway.

You guys in the lake states have better iron to choose from, better dealers. If I buy anything GREEN for forestry the tech will probably come out of Maine. I'm not getting rid of my fulltree stuff just because the CTL horror stories scare me, ProPac will still run with zipties and glue holding it together.

Firewoodjoe · July 23, 2022, 11:12:31 AM

It's really not that bad. There mostly stories. I agree each machine is more complicated due to the fact it's doing more than one job. So more on one machine but less machines overall. But at the end of the day it's engine, pumps, valves and some wiring. 🤷‍♂️It's all the same. I honestly don't see a huge difference in equipment. They all have there problems.

BargeMonkey · July 23, 2022, 09:24:35 PM

It's the lack of support out here Joe, what scares me. Kind of why I'm looking Fabtek / Timberking / Cat for a forwarder. Those 646s like you've got are rare here, being all mechanical would sell me on one. Friend of mine just put his 860.4 up for sale, he likes it but says it's just not for him, he's got a tigercat skidder and slasher, selling his 608L and going for a newer 830.

Firewoodjoe · July 23, 2022, 09:40:49 PM

You mean dealer support? That's not so bad. My equipment dealer is in the UP and I'm in the Lowe peninsula. And most good mechanic can work on them anyways. Yes I would recommend a simple one. Your already use to a TIMBCO. Get one with a fabtek. Only thing is the little monitor and the wires going to the head. Supper simple once you know them. I have all my parts shipped to me and I'm the mechanic. Me and the forum lolthere's a few older TIMBCOs popping up for 50-70,000 that don't look bad.

Firewoodjoe · July 23, 2022, 09:54:01 PM

Also if that little computer goes bad you can buy a new updated one for about $3,000. They have one encoder. Simple. 4 wires there labels and light up. One saw homing sensor. Simple.

Firewoodjoe · July 23, 2022, 09:58:54 PM

This is the measuring encoder. 4 wires and there labeled 🤷‍♂️ Three more for to the saw homing sensor and that also has a light on it. Don't be scared barge 🤑

Nothing wrong with tree length I always liked it. But things aren't cheap and I don't think that's going to go away and by the sound of it your usually working alone. Ctl is great alone or with one guy. Or girl. Lol another thing to think about is selling your equipment. Do you think that tree length equipment will still be sellable in the further or should you trying dumping it now while conventional crews are still in need. Think fuel. Those slashers, hotsaws and pulling smoking skidders should be dying off. Eco mode forwarders will be the norm.

BargeMonkey · July 24, 2022, 12:09:09 AM

I'm sitting back watching, McCoy in MI has a couple nice 703s / 622Bs, I want a danglehead, and the aftermarket parts support from Axis forestry is impressive. I'm going to burn that Tigercat note in about 60 days, see what fuel and wood prices are and get serious about shopping. My on-road diesel price is just over 4.00 right now, it's coming down just the general public isn't seeing it as fast.

Firewoodjoe · July 24, 2022, 09:15:03 AM

Quote from: BargeMonkey on July 24, 2022, 12:09:09 AM
I'm sitting back watching, McCoy in MI has a couple nice 703s / 622Bs, I want a danglehead, and the aftermarket parts support from Axis forestry is impressive. I'm going to burn that Tigercat note in about 60 days, see what fuel and wood prices are and get serious about shopping. My on-road diesel price is just over 4.00 right now, it's coming down just the general public isn't seeing it as fast.

I know some people running 703s 616s and 622s. There good but have there own problems. Wiring, valves and fuses are out at the head. Which is good and bad. I believe one of those fuses is about $500. He still goes through hoses. They were popular here for awhile. Until people started running the barkos. More people buying new have ponsse and barko now. Except the diehard Deere guys are running 1270s. But keeping new ones. A few 803s still around. There just to big for our area.

quilbilly · July 24, 2022, 11:57:28 PM

I was in the processor with a fella the other day, he had run south star, waratah, and ponsse and liked the head the best. H8 or 10 I think. Ponsse equipment though I haven't heard great stuff about. Got a friend that runs a forwarder and it's always broke down chasing electrical issues.

Firewoodjoe · February 07, 2024, 11:46:56 AM

Well it's taking me awhile to diagnose this and still cut wood. Like I said before it's not terrible when it's bad.

Anyways. I keep going back to the load sense and a few days ago I adjust the lid sense just a fuzz. Machine worked great! For a few days. So today I played with it more. If I adjust it a very small amount lower it will go to slow and sluggish if I turn it back up it works very well but a tad jerky.

Question is, is the load sense valve bad or something else?
And if I run it like this will it damage something else?

My understanding is, it's not affecting the main pressure. It has a main relief for that. And will cause it to be slow or jerky and may cause the engine to work too much and hydraulics to heat up if it's set to high.

I know I should be doing better diagnostics but I'm just out here cutting wood and playing with things rather than park it to do it right🤦�♂️

mike_belben · February 07, 2024, 01:16:34 PM

No one can really tell you anything precise without a schematic for that machine. Theres just too many ways to build a hydraulic machine for guessing well.

Firewoodjoe · February 07, 2024, 02:22:10 PM

Right I understand. It's a lot of shooting in the dark. But there's only one load sense.

barbender · February 07, 2024, 02:25:33 PM

Have you checked your pressures when it is being sluggish?

barbender · February 07, 2024, 02:28:11 PM

I am by no means a hydraulic expert. But one thing I know would help a lot with diagnostics is a hydraulic pressure gauge in the cab. On the Ponsse forwarders, the loader hydraulic valve is right in front of the cab, so I would attach a pressure gauge and get it rigged up so it was visible as I was operating the machine. That was handy when I was working by myself.

Firewoodjoe · February 07, 2024, 04:10:44 PM

Not ones I can see from the cab and not on the main pressure side. Only the pilot. It has power but you have to trick the swash plate into stroke. By running two functions. Which is what the load sense does. So I don't think it's a max pressure problem. I've been running it all day now with the load sense bumped up and it's been great.

Firewoodjoe · February 07, 2024, 04:28:49 PM

I don't know much about hydraulics either. I look at some diagnostic like this, if an engines rods are knocking why do a compression test 😂

prolly not a good way to look at it.

barbender · February 07, 2024, 05:04:09 PM

I've got a leak on a load sense hydraulic line before. It doesn't have to be much, just enough for the pressure to drop and things get weird😁

Firewoodjoe · February 07, 2024, 05:47:24 PM

Your comment got me thinking I could have a internal leak O-ring valve who knows what and I am just turning the load sense up making up for the leak/bypass

mike_belben · February 07, 2024, 07:25:43 PM

Theres probably a dozen places where the swash plate control pressure could be bypassing. Kinda like valve bodies on automatic transmissions. If it aint leakin on the ground its pretty dang hard to find the leak.

Skeans1 · February 07, 2024, 11:23:47 PM

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on February 07, 2024, 04:10:44 PMNot ones I can see from the cab and not on the main pressure side. Only the pilot. It has power but you have to trick the swash plate into stroke. By running two functions. Which is what the load sense does. So I don't think it's a max pressure problem. I've been running it all day now with the load sense bumped up and it's been great.

That sounds more like a stuck relief or a particle in the relief or compensator of the valve vs a load sense issue.