Sustainable logging

[Ianab]

With the cost of land today, a poor quality forest is not economically sustainable, and thus is also on borrowed time. 

Agreed. 

The cost of land in NZ is even higher  , so if you aren't producing a return, then it's just a very expensive hobby. 

[Kodiakmac]

This is not a released video, so don['t tell anybody about it, but just between me and you, here is a part they shot while I was trying to catch my breath during a cutting day.

Thanks for this, OG.

[Quercusrubrum]

I have a lot of interesting info on the subject here: https://thetimberlandinvestor.com/what-is-the-most-sustainable-way-to-harvest-timber/

Bottom line: It depends. The "average" growth rate in the United States is .6 cords/acre, but not all cords are created equal, obviously. paradoxically, as a lot of forestry companies become more "sustainable" by increasing growth rates, the economics of the property get worse because average stem size drops because the forests are younger/faster growing.

For any landowner, I'd argue the most important thing is a good business model. If you are only growing 250 Board feet per acre, make sure you are getting the most for each board foot with entrepreneurial creativity.

[Ianab]

For any landowner, I'd argue the most important thing is a good business model. If you are only growing 250 Board feet per acre, make sure you are getting the most for each board foot with entrepreneurial creativity.

True. Most of the "management" you can do is in the first few years of a trees growth. The thinning / pruning / weed control etc. Once you have a stand of healthy / straight / potentially valuable 10-20 year old trees, there isn't a lot more to do management wise. Just sit back and wait for them to grow. 

But as you suggest there is no "one size fits all" plan. 

[Den-Den]

""Sustainable" basically means you can keep doing what you are doing indefinitely."

That makes sense to me.  It does not say anything about what you can take away while being "sustainable".  If you buy property that is mostly junk wood, it can still be "sustainable" as junk wood although the income may barely pay taxes.  Clear cut and re-plant is also sustainable but there is virtually no income between clear cuts to pay taxes with.  Making a sustainable forestry plan that is also economically sustainable may require outside income or winning a lottery to get started.

[Ron Wenrich]

It depends on your view of what you mean by sustainable.  If you're looking at a per tree vs per acre vs stand, your mgmt can take on more variety.  Clearcutting are in the mix at the stand level.  You're just not clearcutting the entire stand, just compartments. 

Sustainable at the stand level takes in trees in all size and age classes.  Generally speaking, you can't have that in all areas, as you will have to make room for reproduction.  I've also used basal area in the analysis of sustainable forests.  You would want about the same BA for poletimber, small sawtimber, and large sawtimber.  For regeneration, you would need about 1/2 acre or better clearing to get the kind of regeneration you would want.

The question of making a depleted stand sustainable depends on what you're working with.  Poletimber and sawtimber aren't the only trees on the woodlot.  There may be sufficient reproduction of a desirable species present.  If not, than planting would be in line. 

I once remember talking to a Canadian forester who worked with building models of mgmt for British Columbian forests.  They were working on 400 yr rotations.  You can do that on public lands.   But, they were working through all the stages of forest successions going from pioneer to climax.  Sustainable forestry at that perspective gives all sorts of different mgmt options.  For the normal private landowner, anything past 20 yrs is probably too much. 

[Prizl tha Chizl]

 Re the Spring Green approach.

I've worked with Jim a bit and have seen the insides of his (now sold) operation. He worked hard for years on land he didn't have to pay for, building up tooling and manufacturing processes over decades, and made a decent living. It took a lot of trial and error to find out not only "what sells" but also "how to sell it," and first, "how to make it." I believe some version of his approach could work with just about any woods, from junk to gem, but not necessarily for every person, or even in any place.

Spring Green is already an art/tourist location close enough to pull big city bucks out to the country. There are a few similar spots in WV (Elkins comes to mind, or in the panhandle,) but it really helped him having a marketplace that was already built and just waiting for something like his business to come along.

Also, while value added forest products do get you way more income out of each tree, they almost always involve way more equipment and skill than just selling logs. Jim had to not only get good at low impact harvesting, but also milling, drying, processing, installing and finishing flooring, various kinds of woodworking, as well as business management and sales. Think about what you'd enjoy doing. Jim told me his greatest profit per board foot was coming from his CNC Christmas tree ornaments. Good money, but how many hours of your life do you wanna spend sawing and selling those?

It also takes someone who's incredibly motivated to be successful, isn't easily discouraged by setbacks, and can stay focused on the long term. Does this describe you?  I'm solid for the second two, and trying to find it in me for the first one.  And it probably takes a bit of luck, too, (how did old greenhorn fall into that mushroom log business, anyways?)

No matter what, you're right to be thinking about your family in the equation. I've let a lot of good opportunities go by the wayside in order to get to be a part of my kids lives, and I don't regret a single one of them. But I do wish Id spent more time figuring out how to turn our woods into an income before the kids came along. Like others have said, it's awful hard to build a business from scratch and pay the mortgage and feed the family at the same time. I'd love to hear from other folks that are making it work and how, for encouragement, if nothing else.

[Old Greenhorn]

.......  And it probably takes a bit of luck, too, (how did old greenhorn fall into that mushroom log business, anyways?)
....

I can speak to this a little, lest folks think I 'fell into it'. When I had my first business back in the last century (age 25) I had a mentor who gave me some good guidance. He taught me to make every contact I could and even if I couldn't use their skills or info, save it for when I was ready. Never let knowledge slide by without making note and filing it away.
 With that in mind I had taken a siliviculture class in preparation for my retirement business to gain some more knowledge. Part of that class was a tour of a model forest with lots of BMP examples spread around. There was also an active mushroom grow operation and the instructor explained how it worked. As an aside she mentioned that 'mushroom folks' have a hard time finding logs because they generally don't interface with 'logger types', being from somewhat different 'cultures'. She suggested that mushroom logging could provide a good side income for someone willing to put in the work, but it would require some marketing to develop clients and care to understand the log handling requirements.
 I filed that info away and as time went on I did more reading and talking to folks 'on both sides of the aisle' collecting more info and experience. After a few years, I had room in my business and some time, to give it a shot. At first it looked like a flop, then I got one order, then another. Nobody I could find was taking logs like I was so I had to figure out my harvesting methods and streamline the labor as much as I could. Within 8 months I was overloaded with orders and had a couple of "If you can get this XXXX [species], I will buy it all" types of orders. I cut over 1,100 logs that year and put in a ton of sweat. It is a very labor intensive undertaking.
 This year I am trying to taper the market to where I do orders between my other work and I don't look for the 'big hit orders'. I am folding this into my other income streams and looking for balance between them all. NEVER put all your eggs in one basket. Times change, markets flip, interest dies, and if you don't have another product or service to move your focus to, you are in trouble. I was not ever looking to make a lot of money. I was looking to have some enjoyable work and pull in extra bucks to pay taxes and bills.
 Some might say I 'got lucky', but in this case I don't think luck played any role at all. I was just paying attention at the right time. YMMV

[Prizl tha Chizl]

Sorry greenhorn, I never meant to imply that i thought you hadn't had to work hard at it, just that "luck" or "coincidence" sometimes spell a part of peoples success stories- obviously not in your case- a bad guess on my part. Thanks for giving the background story, as well as the advice that comes with it.

[Old Greenhorn]

Nah, no problem, all good. I used to think folks 'got lucky' too (and sometimes, they actually did) but most times it was a 'bit more' than luck. When I was young I would remark about this guy or that one that 'lucked into a good deal' and my Dad had an expression which I cannot remember that put it in the perspective of "Yeah, he mortgaged everything he had and worked 95 hour weeks for 5 years just to get it started and now it looks like he can pay off his debts, so I guess it was all luck." Kind of like 30 years of work to become an overnight success.

 I think it might be mostly sweat, smarts, and drive. But the luck can help that along once in a while. In my first business ( a machine shop ) I picked up my largest client because I just happened to be in a friend's office when he got a call asking for help. He couldn't help them, but he said "There's a young guy standing in my office right now who is pretty sharp and may be able to pull it off for you." Then he handed me the phone and the rest was a 6 year story of constant work. I fully admit, THAT was luck. :D ;D

[beenthere]

Sorry greenhorn, I never meant to imply that i thought you hadn't had to work hard at it, just that "luck" or "coincidence" sometimes spell a part of peoples success stories- obviously not in your case- a bad guess on my part. Thanks for giving the background story, as well as the advice that comes with it.

The Jim you mentioned near Spring Green, had his "start" being the son of the man who started with a WM mill before Jim went off to learn Forestry. His father had the land, the ideas to log, saw, dry and mill wood for his home at the farm. 
Jim picked up on what his father started. Knew the man as an Electrical Engineering prof at the UW Madison. Jim did well expanding with what he had to begin with. Promoting some ideas that fit with a new generation and getting volunteers involved expanded the "business".  Just my take. 

[ppine]

We are all in favor of sustainable forestry.  But that does not mean on every acre all the time. It means that the annual allowable cut is in line with the annual growth rate.  That means clear cutting is okay as long as the total acreage in production divided by the rotation age is not exceeded in any one year.

Buying forest land and making a living off of it is difficult if you have to pay a mortgage on it.  Ranching is the same way.  If you are gifted the land because it is in the family you have a chance.  Agriculture is a marginal economic exercise, no matter if it is forestry, farming or ranching.  Paying a mortgage often means operations don't pencil out. 

[AndyVT]

I inherited 50 acres of mixed woodland from my folks and have been working it for the last 30 years.
 It had been clearcut 75-100 years ago for sheep grazing and has come back as mostly even aged trees.
My management plan has been to slowly remove the poor quality trees and release the better timber.
Since I do my own cutting and skidding and sell directly to mills, I get some income from it.
I recently updated my plan which calls for regeneration cuts on about half the acreage. 
This will hopefully allow for new growth to start and let the better quality trees prosper.
With only 50 acres I don't expect to get rich but I do get a sustainable harvest of sawlogs, pulp and firewood fo the long term. 

[ppine]

To reiterate about clearcutting being sustainable. 
On a small woodlot probably not. 

In the West we mostly think about public forest land.  As an example, a Ranger District on a National Forest has 300,000 acres.  The rotation age is 60 years.  That means you can clear cut 5,000 acres a year and it will be sustainable. That is the total acreage of merchantable timber divided by the rotation age. 300,000 divided by 60 years.