Gate hinge issue

[kelLOGg]

A few years ago I put a gate on the southeast side of my air drying racks to block sunlight but allow wind to pass through. The left and right side boards measure, respectively, 5' and 7.5' high and the length of the gate is 12' and it hinges on the left side. The gate boards are 1/2" x 4" and, being hinged on the short side, put a lot of downward torque on the hinges. When closed, it is supported on the tall side by a wire hanging from the above rafters and connected to the gate frame.



 

Yesterday a customer came to pick up boards and when the I opened the gate I noticed thetop hinge was wonky. 



The hinge had pivoted at both the hingepin AND the screws mounting the hinge to the 4 x 4 post making the hinge dig into the post. The other 2 hinges behaved normally. 

I have a hard time understanding the forces that cause this. I removed the diagonal guy wires that prevent sagging but to no avail. The post and gate frame to which the hinged are mounted were planed and have remained flat and parallel. 

I don't like things that don't work well and I am afraid it can only get worse. Got ideas? 

[Hilltop366]

It does not look very rusty but there is a lot of load on the hinge, I get that on garbage bin lids when the hinge pin seized up. Lots of leverage on the other side of the door.

If not the issue I would put a long strap hinge and wrap it around both post, that would get you more fasteners and your fastening points out further from the pin.

[Tom King]

I would through bolt hinges for that gate.

I had a similar problem with 10' square doors on a building that came with the property here.  

Long story shortened, I ended up building some hinges from hinge barrels and steel plates I bought off ebay.

Not only do I not feel like I'm not now risking my life to open the


 

 

 

 se doors, but they work smoothly, and quietly.

The ad I ordered the hinge barrels said 7" long, but they were actually only 6" long.  I ordered precut 5x7" x 3/8 steel plates to use at the same time.  If I had known the barrels were actually only 6", I would have ordered a different size plate, but just turned them the 5" way vertically, and don't worry about the overhang of the trim boards.

These doors had hardware store T hinges that were about to give out, also only screwed on.  I through bolted these.

The fifth hole in the middle of the halves that attach to the jamb side is for a screw to be able to tap them into perfect alignment with a straight edge (aluminum concrete screed) before drilling the through holes.

Can't post a link to ebay ads here, but the hinge barrels shouldn't be hard to find.  Just do a search for weld on hinge barrels.

I paid $24 a pair for these.  They're showing out of stock, but they have other sizes.  I just bought the barrels.  They also sell them welded onto flat plates for more money, but I just bought the barrels and steel plates.

I had some leftover 3/4" ID thrust bearings from another job, so I made the bottom pair of hinges to use the thrust bearings.  Probably doesn't matter, but I had them anyway, and the thrust bearings should be the first thing to wear out on them, and are easily replaceable.

[DWyatt]

Agree with Hilltop, that a lot of force on those hinges. Especially with the regular deck screws holding the hinges on. There's just too many places for the hong to move and work loose. I'd swap those screws out for the longest 5/16" GRK structural screws you can fit into the post and call it done. You may have to drill out the hinge. 

[thecfarm]

Yes bigger hinges and bolt through the door.
Maybe use a big washer on the back side of the door.
I would like to build something this year.
I may not get to the doors this year, but I might try to build some hinges myself. Long and wide. Might even use 3/8 bolts.

[Hilltop366]

The way the hinge is pulled out close to the pin side really make me think that the hinge pin is/was seized or binding from load or both.

Some grease and some bolts might be all you need.

[Tom King]

Here's the only picture I could find of what I started with.  This is one of the better ones that I had through bolted a while back.  I was taking the bolts out by myself.



 

[newoodguy78]

Grk or fastenmaster screws in all hinge to post points and a board going from the bottom hinge to top corner screwed real well. That will put the weight of the door on the bottom hinge pushing the door in towards the post rather than trying to pull the top hinge out.  

[kelLOGg]

I like putting a 1/2" bolt through the hinge leaves. I am thinking about leaving the hinges in place and starting with a small hole and increase it up to 1/2". Does that sound doable? I think it is less risky than removing a hinge at a time - it may shift.

[btulloh]

Good info above.  Won't be too hard to solve really. 

I notice those are butt hinge's you're using. All the holes in a line, so the force is not being spread over a wider area like a strap hinge would. Maybe just drill 2 or 3 new holes offset towards the pin. That would help. Agree with the through bolt idea also, but still need to spread the force a bit. Deck screws aren't doing you any favors in that application either (looks like something I'd do in a pinch lol).  Better to not use flat head since your on the opposite side from the countersink. 

[kelLOGg]

Drilling those 4 holes in a line was a bad idea. Maybe I should remove the hinges one at a time and weld onto the leaves to make them span across the 4 x 4. Then re-install with 1/2" bolts. If I can stabilize the gate so only 2 hinges hold I may do that. (But I have a hernia repair on Thursday so I doubt I will do more than plan right now)

[Tom King]

Good luck with the hernia repair.  I can offer some advice on the healing process with that, if you like.  Being in Durham, I hope you're going to Duke.  I did.

I wedged my doors where I wanted them, screwed a couple of short 2x4's to hold the top from falling out, took the old hinges off, and did the repairs I needed to both the building and the doors before installing the new hinges.

[JD Guy]

If it were mine I would have hinged on the long side (right) but I'm sure you had reason for other side. Hinging on the right would give you better leverage and much less weight on the hinges plus you could have used additional hinges.

That said, if imperative to hinge on the left, I would use gate hinges (3 not 2) that thread the anchor point though the post. Others have recommended this above too.

Let us know what you decide and best wishes!

[Don P]

I had my repairs done at Wake med and at our little mountain hospital. The hillbilly won hands down   :D.
Good Luck on the surgery, seems to be popular lately  .

[kelLOGg]

I wanted to hinge on the right but it would have been a major issue to partially remove siding from 2 sides of the barn to expose the vertical corner post. 
I am definitely planning on welding an extension on the hinges and remounting them with two 1/2" bolts per leaf. 
Thanks for all advice on hernia and hinge. It'll be at UNC (hernia, that is) - 
I'll do the hinge myself.😁

[thecfarm]

Good luck with the hernia.
No idea which one you have. Seems to be a half dozen of them critters.
I had the inguinal type. Just like putting a half of a baseball down by the groin area. My bowels were coming outside. 

[Tom King]

If you're going to weld on plates, you might as well make some with heavier barrels.  You don't need the ones as heavy as I used.  I just checked ebay, and some 5" ones are 18 dollars a pair with free shipping.

Search on ebay for:   5" barrel hinge no plate weld on steel heavy duty for metal doors gates pair

[Tom King]

As for the hernia surgery:   They gave me a choice of three types of anesthesia.  I chose the same one as they use for colonoscopy's, and woke up not long after the surgery with no side effects, and headed back home with my Son driving.

There is no pain if you don't engage those ab muscles while the healing is going on.  Bruising comes from doing that, and pain comes with the bruising.  They were having an emergency in the pre/post op room, and handed me my clothes and I was told to get dressed.  I had a small bruise from bending my knee up to put on my socks.  Have some one to help you get dressed.

When standing up to get out of the car, or wheelchair to get in the car at the hospital, lean well forward to get your weight over your feet to keep from engaging your abs.

At home, have your bed set up so you get out of it laying on your side with the surgery side up.  I pulled my knees up while laying on my side.  To get up from that position, let your feet slide over the edge of the bed while pushing up with your arms down against the bed.  Again, to avoid engaging your abs.

If I had thought about it to start with, I would have put a handle on a rope attached to the ceiling to make that easier.

Walking helps, but don't bend your knees to pick your feet up any more than you have to.  I did a lot of walking back and forth in the house, but not much the first couple of days.

I took no pain medications after whatever they gave me at the hospital.  I didn't really need any, and didn't want to not feel what was going on down there.

I only had another bruise on day 5 when I went to take a shower.  I picked up that foot in the process, and that gave me the first bruise.  I was a lot more careful after that, and had no more bruising.

They will shave you down there, and a good ways around the surgery sight.  I was told by others I knew who had this surgery that this was the worst part, with razor burn and uncomfortable stiff hair growing back out.  I decided to get used to this in advance, but soon said the hell with that, and looked for another method.  I had bought a wax warmer for heating hot hide glue a while back, so did some research on waxing, and tried it.  MANY times better than shaving down there.  What hair that grows back comes in softer than the stubble that grows back from shaving.  I could give a lot more details about that but it's probably too late to start that now.

Long story shortened, when I went back for my first checkup, the nurse said it has healed the best of any she had seen, and thought maybe not using pain killers had helped.  She also wanted to know how I did that to the skin down there, being so obviously more hairy everywhere else.  Waxing lasts for weeks.

Good luck with your recovery.  I could probably write a lot more about it, but feel like this probably covers the important parts.

Have plenty to read, and streaming series to watch.  If yours is as large as mine was from getting a huge woman out of a wrecked car, it will be a couple of weeks before you lift more than a fork full of food.

It's not bad at all.

[kelLOGg]

Good luck with the hernia.
No idea which one you have. Seems to be a half dozen of them critters.
I had the inguinal type. Just like putting a half of a baseball down by the groin area. My bowels were coming outside.  

Mine's about 1/3 of a baseball - also down there in man-land. ;D

[kelLOGg]

Remounted the top hinge this aft. It went with no problems. I unscrewed the 8 torx screws in the top hinge and the gate barely moved. (The hinge pivoted freely and had no binding. One torx screw had stripped the threads in the wood). I welded 1.5" more to the hinge leaves, drilled 1/2" holes in them, held the hinge in place with the torx screws in their original holes and used the 1/2" holes to guide the drill through the posts for permanent mounting with four 1/2-13 all threads with lock washers on both ends. Gate operates as well as before but with no weird leaf pivoting. The hinges are heavy duty: 3/16" thick, 5" tall with 5/16" pin. The other 2 hinges will be later and easier because I won't need a ladder.
Thanks for all the advice - on this and hernia, too. ;D 



 

 

[thecfarm]

Well there. ½" bolts will do it.  ;)

[21incher]

That should  do it. Don't forget to put some Bluecreeper on the pins.

[kelLOGg]

I needed to post a final pic. I actually finished it before my surgery. Thaks again for advice.



 

[samandothers]

Hope the surgery went well!  Heal quickly!