I've got my Morgan mini scragg up and running...well, sort of. It's got 2 36" blades. To try it out I decided to cut some 4x4's and 6x6's out of some old firewood logs. This thing will cut some cants in a hurry!
My problem is, I can cut about 10 cants and the left side blade will heat up in the center, and cup to the outside. I can wait about 10 minutes and it will return to it's original shape and is good to go for another 10 cants. I'm assuming that I need to have it hammered, but I really don't know anything about circle saws.
Somebody please help me! ???
Have you put new teeth in the blade? That's usually where I start to troubleshoot. With new teeth, you eliminate worn out bits or poorly maintained ones.
Yes sir. All new bits.
Are the blades guided? Is there a way to set lead? I looked at a couple of Morgans on line and it looks like they are guided. You might have to set your guide a little tighter, or adjust a bit of lead. I would think that the saws would have to be adjusted opposite of each other. Your left saw would be the mirror of your right saw. If you got it hot, it may need to be hammered.
Seems your saw is cutting out a bit, and that is opening the eye of your saw. Do these saws run on a common mandrel?
Yes, they run on a common mandrel, so I don't know how I'd set the lead. The blades are guided on the front side. How close should the guides be set to the blade? I have them set at about 3/16" from each side.
You should be able to see daylight along your blades. 3/16" is probably too much. When I was running a big saw, I would set my guides with a running saw. I don't know if you can comfortably do that. I would think that your outside guide should be set pretty tight.
Just out of curiosity, is the measurement between the blades the same on the input side as the output side? Being a common mandrel, I would think they would be the same.
Just thinking here If the cup hammer is left and right your cant would be wider than at rest measurement . Also you would need to know witch way the cup is to set the guides I would think . I have never worked with a bolter just circle mills .
Yes, input and output sides measure the same.
When I started working on this thing the guides were pulled out as far as they'd go, so the blades were unguided I'd say. Which may have been part of the reason it was for sale. Who knows? I'll try tightening the guides up and see what happens.
I don't think I've got enough huevos to set the guides while it's running...and I've got a lot of huevos. :D
Quote from: Gearbox on January 14, 2017, 07:47:18 PM
Just thinking here If the cup hammer is left and right your cant would be wider than at rest measurement . Also you would need to know witch way the cup is to set the guides I would think . I have never worked with a bolter just circle mills .
I'm not sure. I figured with the cant running between the 2 blades and slabs on the outsides, they'd have to be pretty flat. It's using 5/16" wide bits, that's pretty wide kerf I figured. But I really have no idea.
If your guides are set right, might try and file a little extra lead into the teeth of the saw that's trying to heat up and cut out. I have a scragg that's built similar to a morgan and I have to file the teeth with a lot of lead.
Quote from: irvi00 on January 14, 2017, 09:13:45 PM
If your guides are set right, might try and file a little extra lead into the teeth of the saw that's trying to heat up and cut out. I have a scragg that's built similar to a morgan and I have to file the teeth with a lot of lead.
File them slanting to the inside?
You can take a bit off of one side of the tooth. If my saw was trying to lead out, I would take a swipe off of the long side of the tooth. Do it for every tooth on the saw. If you take too much off, it will lead the other way. That's why I took just a swipe to start. Also remember that not all new teeth are created equal. I've found teeth that are heavier on one side than the other. Your teeth should also be centered on your shanks.
Thanks, I'll try setting the guides first, then if i have to, I'll work on the teeth. But I'll have to do it Monday because the weather isn't cooperating with my plans right now.
One more question. I put new teeth in, and have made maybe 60 cuts 8 & 10 foot long. Should the teeth still feel like they'd cut your finger when touching them? I get a lot of dust and grit in the desert here. The thought occurred to me that I may not be able to afford to cut logs that have sat very long. ???
Red lay a square across each blade and see if you can tell witch side of the blade the cup is on . The inside of the cup can have the guide touching . the other side needs to be away enough to let the blade flatten out . Also are you getting your blade up to speed . I have no clue what that speed will be . On a circle mill I just keep adding speed till the blade stands up then add a little .
Not sure about the speed. I know that when I first started messing with it, the blades wobbled some until I got the engine to about 2000 rpm then they straightened right up. So that's where I run it. It's got a Cummins 4B, so 2 grand seems about right.
I'm going to start with the guides, and work down the list...if the guides don't fix it.
I'll post what I find out.
Ok, here's today's update.
I didn't get to work on the Morgan until late afternoon because some pesky customer came by needing some 6x6's. I tried to tell him I was busy, but he waved money in front of me. :D
When I got around to the Morgan I decided to try one thing at a time. First I looked at the blade guides. My 3/16" estimate turned into almost 3/8" over the weekend some how (I know my memory can't be that bad). I put the outside guides at maybe 1/64" (almost touching). I set the inside guides at about 1/16". The outfeed side only has guides on the outside, so I set them the same as the front.
That's when I decided that the question I had ask about how sharp the teeth should be was not the most intelligent question that I had ever asked. So I got out an 8" bastard mill file and very carefully hit each tooth 3 pretty light licks to bring the edge back. Yeah, I know, that's 2 things I did before trying it. But they were both pretty obvious.
I only had time to run 3 logs through it before dark, but it seemed to be doing real good. The finish on the pieces I cut were far better than what I had been getting. I guess tomorrow's the test, I've got an order for 80 4x4x8's. I'll let y'all know how it goes.
Good deal. Sounds like progress.
It has nothing to do with your problem but is that a end dogging or sharp chain scragg mill? I sure would like to see a video of it running.
PC
Quote from: paul case on January 16, 2017, 11:22:52 PM
Good deal. Sounds like progress.
It has nothing to do with your problem but is that a end dogging or sharp chain scragg mill? I sure would like to see a video of it running.
PC
It's a sharp chain.
This is a video I did about a year ago when I first got it fired up.
https://youtu.be/3XPQj96xnn8
If it's handy, I'll try to get a better one tomorrow.
Sorry, I know nothing about scragg mills. I do know about huevos. They are veery useful if you are a fighter pilot or a cavalry officer. They can cause serious problems around a sawmill. Good Luck, and Regards, Clark
Quote from: sealark37 on January 17, 2017, 11:59:23 AM
Sorry, I know nothing about scragg mills. I do know about huevos. They are veery useful if you are a fighter pilot or a cavalry officer. They can cause serious problems around a sawmill. Good Luck, and Regards, Clark
Huevos are best basted with experience and maybe a little wisdom. Otherwise I agree, they could be dangerous. :D
Ok, I think I've got it figured out. Setting the guides, and touching up the teeth did the trick...for about 30 pieces. Then I needed to touch up the teeth again. :( It's a learning process I guess.
These logs have been through at least 4 sandstorms...that's probably 4 too many. My big concern now is that I'll mess up the teeth where it won't cut at all. An investment in a grinder may be in my near future.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12769/image~31.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1457829851)
Maybe you should think about carbide bits. They're pricey, but with all the dirt, they'll stay sharper longer. You will need a grinder on those. The only downside is if you have a lot of trash metal.
Yeah, carbide crossed my mind. That's what I pulled off of it. They were in bad shape when I changed them out. But I haven't hit any metal yet (knock on wood). I think keeping logs sawed up as they come in is going to be a good idea too.
Thanks for your help getting it figured out everybody. I'm sure I'll need it again.
Andres makes a rotary file that works well on bigger circle mills . last one I got it was about $200 . I am not sure how small saw it will work on I know it won't work on edger saws .
I used an Andrus power sharpener on a vertical edger. A lot depends on how wide you can pull your blades apart. Otherwise you might be looking at a Jockey that is dedicated to the setup. If you go with a power setup, then you'll be able to use chrome teeth. They do stand up a bid better than the regular teeth. But, you need a power grinder to get off the chrome when you need to sharpen.
I think maybe a washing would help your logs. Problem is, its messy and you have to have access to water. It gets to be fun in freezing temps. You probably could devise a system that washes before it goes to the saw and recirculates the water. Wet logs saw better than dry ones.
Well, things went south again this morning, so I called sawmill supply which is ran by the Morgan family. I was hoping that I could get an owners manual or something to educate me on the alignment of this thing. They told me that there are no manuals available for my scragg mill. :( But I still got an education. About 30 minutes after I had called, I got a call from the man who designed and built my mill. We talked about deer hunting for a while, and then got down to business. He took me step by step through the alignment process (I wish I would have been at the mill, but I took notes). When I got to the mill I started aligning it. Man was that thing out of whack! It took me a couple of hours, but I got everything pretty close. I'm going to have to have the blades hammered is one thing that I found, and the reason I said I got it pretty close. He said the blades on these things have to be hammered flat (and these are not).
At the end of the day today I didn't have a saw that would saw well for prolonged periods of time. What I did have was a better understanding of my machine, a definite direction, and the next step. Now hopefully I can find someone somewhat local to hammer the blades.
He did recommend the chrome teeth over carbide. I guess everything's a trade off.
How much room do you need for the Andrus grinder? This one opens to 10" between blades. I'm kinda leaning towards a small jockey grinder since my edger has insert blades too.
Nothing like talking to someone who knows a lot about the machine. I never thought about hammering a saw flat. But, I've never been around a scragg saw.
The Andrus rotary isn't what you want, because it is just a manual type of sharpener and won't work on chrome. I don't think you'll be happy with the Andrus power unit, since it works on a swivel, and you have to tighten it on the saw. Jones also makes grinders. Several types out there. A saw doc may be able to guide you to what you should have.
Morgans are top notch.
I had 2 resaws and a chop saw built by them. I also nce needed some info and called the number on the brass tag on one machine. I got Mr Morgan on his cell phone walking around in a walmart. He knew exactly what I had and the answers on the spot, Very helpful.
PC